How do you shoot "Groups" Real world VS shooting from a rest

[Master Blaster]

Sunday I was at my club, on the 100 yard rifle range, and I am fairly new to precision rifle shooting. What struck me was that out of 8 people there shooting I was the only one not using a rest. Yes I was the only one shooting freehand, seated.

I noticed that some of the folks were making these teeny tiny groups, and discussion was of how small the groups were from thier rifles all of these folks had front and rear rests for their guns.

Of course all were curious to see how I was doing and to give me pointers, which was fine.

Then I made a controversial statement: I said that I did not see the practical value of shooting off a rest, because in a real world situation you would not have one to use (SHTF, or hunting). Of course my 5 shot groups were 2-3", and my 20 shot group was like 6". (my movement not the gun).

Well when I made my statement that it may be a good idea to shoot offhand as one would in the field, you could hear the cricketts chirp and then all went back to the 5 minute squint before releasing a round.

I was shooting my new savage 10fp LE2 with accutrigger, and a nikon 4.5-14 AO scope. A gent who had a Canjar trigger on his rem tried my 1.5lb trigger and was very impressed with it, especially the fact that the rifle came with the trigger, and the whole rifle cost about waht he had spent on his trigger and installation.

It took me 6 shots to dial in the bullseye, and I am very pleased with the rifle.

My starting load was 40 gr of IMR 4064 and a remington 165 gr softpoint.

One of the tiny group shoters said that my groups were about as good as he could do offhand, and that they were minute of deer easily.

So how do all of you practice, two rests or offhand, and what kind of groups can I really expect offhand.

Maybe I shoud order a rest so I can see what my rifle is capable of (being a conformist)???, any suggestions.

Thanks

 

[wanderinwalker]

First off, good shooting.

Secondly, there are positions other than bench-rested and offhand! Everybody seems to forget kneeling, sitting and prone. And how to use a sling. Since I've been interested in getting into High Power competition, I find I NEVER "practice" from a bench. The bench is only for checking zero and testing a new load. (Although I have found I can check zero and test loads when shooting prone.) And many times I have turned in prone groups rivaling what most people can do with a bench. My personal best is 5 shots from an 03A3 into 1.5" @ 100 yards.

My vote is to use the bench for zero check and load testing. Unless it is required to fire from the bench (as I hear it is at some ranges). All other times a rifle should be fired from position, because this is far more useful than bench-resting, IMO.

 

[Steve Smith]

I've been shooting Highpower for several years now. I haven't used a bench since I started, and now I can test loads from prone. With practice you can do very well. I can shoot about 3.5" groups at 300. I average 97.5% of the possible points at 600 yards with a 2 minute 10 ring.

 

[Tamara]

Depends.

Am I shooting for practice or recreation or to zero a scope or test a load or what?

Am I trying to test me, or am I trying to remove as many shooter-induced variables as possible and test the rifle/load?

It all has a place...

 

[Ed]

I'll have to agree with the others. When testing a rifle or a load try to take as many variables out as possible. Shoot from a bench. When trying to test me, shoot without it. I'd also say that my idea of off a bench is with a few sandbags under the rifle. I've never used the mount things. And when hunting if given the choice I will always use a rest or the side of the stand or branch etc.

 

[Ian]

I use the shooting benches at my range for sighting in guns (not very frequently) and for storing my bag of ammo and mags. I do all my practice shooting from a field postion, usually standing, squatting, or sitting.

 

[bogie]

Well, I shoot competitive benchrest. It's a test of the rifle, your load, and your skill at knowing WHEN to shoot.

That doesn't mean I don't know how to crawl around on the ground. I was in the Army, thankyouverymuch, and did enough of that to last a lifetime.

 

[larryw]

I find shooting offhand or other field/sling positions to be much more enjoyable than shooting from a bench. Sure, its fun to see what the gun can do and to tweak a load so its just right, but proper shooting is an activity requiring mental discipline and physical skills that would make Tiger Woods sweat.

 

[VG]

I only shoot from a bench to zero or evaluate a rifle. I mostly shoot Garnds in competition. I think benchrest shooters tend to be older and richer.....

I try to practice prone, sitting, and off-hand (without slng), because that's what we shoot. I also practice a reload sometimes, since the rapid-fire strings require that you load 2 rounds, then reload with 8 more (ro accomodate the Garand - both AR's and M1A's are required t odo this as well).

 

[Badger Arms]

Concensus:

Shoot from the bench when zeroing.
Shoot from the bench when testing a new load.

I'll add that many hunt all sorts of little critters from the benchrest. Up here, the local ranges are chuck full of hunters sighting their guns in at the local ranges too.

 

[Poodleshooter]

I use rests in the real world,too. Rocks and trees have been rests for me on several occasions while still or stand hunting. Position shooting is useful for competition and developing good rifle skills, but I've never been able to properly sling up while hunting. Resting the rifle on my hand against an upright tree trunk is usually the quickest stablizing option for me.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Use sandbags/rests to zero the scope. Almost all shooting in the field is done kneeling.

 

[TallPine]

Practice like you are going to hunt.

Me, I mostly sit down against a tree or stump and wait for the deer to come to me ... so that's how I practice. (sit on the ground in front of the bench and lean back against it)

 

[Sunray]

"...because in a real world situation you would not have one to use (SHTF, or hunting)..." Um, yes, you would if you know what you're doing. It is far better to shoot at game from an improvised rest than to pretend you can be as accurate without one as you will be with one. It is always desirable to shoot from a rest of any kind over shooting without a rest. No matter what has hit the fan(where you'd be shooting from cover, hence you'd have a rest, or you will perish) or hunting.
Off hand shooting takes lots of practice. Mind you, bench shooting has nothing to do with age, wealth, or anything else. It's just a different way of shooting.

 

[SteelEye]

What me sit?

I shoot at 2 ranges. In 99.5% of cases, rifle shooters are sitting down. With that, 80% are shooting 24" groups at 50 yards. I kid you not! I find sitting down to shoot is no challenge. I only shoot standing up. At the end of a shooting session I like to see a hole punched in the paper, preferable, the X obliterated, but I'm not there yet.

BTW, I shoot a left handed Cooper 57M. The rifle has improved my capabilities by 200%.

Burt

 

[C.R.Sam]

My last benchrest match was maby 50 years ago.
Tuning, ammo test, new sights etc a bench is nice...
But I often do that from prone.
Lots of position matches.
But also lots of unorthodox position shooting with whatever rest is available.

Have long used a sling for hunting, including two legged critters.

Long guns are good.
Handguns are good.
Machineguns are good.
Cannons are more gooder.

Sam

 

[Ian]

It is far better to shoot at game from an improvised rest than to pretend you can be as accurate without one as you will be with one.

I don't have a range in my backyard, so my shooting time is limited. It seems to me that if I practice shooting without a rest, I will have no trouble using a rest when I want to. On the other hand, if I practice from a rest, I won't be well prepared to shoot without one, because of the extra variables present in off-hand shooting. So I think the most beneficial use of my range time is to not use a rest. If that reasoning has a flaw in it, I'd (honestly) very much like to know it.

 

[Feanaro]

I never fire from a rest unless I'm tweaking a rifle or just seeing what the load/rifle can do.(for example, testing Wolf ammo against Remington with my SKS)

I find that if you can shoot well standing, with a little more practice you can do well in any other position. That general level of skill does not seem to transfer from bench shooting to standing or kneeling. Bench shooting is fine if that's the way you want to do it but it is not, in my experiance, the best way to become a good all around shot.

 

[swingset]

Those with a limited view of shooting view a rest as "cheating" or taking the skill out of the equation. True it's used to test loads and zero rifles (as it should be), but shooting from a bench also requires skill and observation.

Sit next to a talented benchrest shooter sometime and see how long you can hang with him or her.

I shoot EVERY position, because I'm fascinated with the possiblities and enjoy the challenge. The only fools I've met on the firing line are those close minds who see no benefit in a different way.

 

[varoadking]

80% are shooting 24" groups at 50 yards.

Where do you shoot - the Braile Range?

 

[TODD3465]

Mainly use a bench for testing new rifles, loads and zeroing in sights&scopes.
Unless a heavy barrel most of my shooting is offhand and I even do that with the hvy bbl rifles from time to time.
I also shoot prone from 300 to 600 yds.

 

[TallPine]

So I think the most beneficial use of my range time is to not use a rest. If that reasoning has a flaw in it, I'd (honestly) very much like to know it.

Only flaw that I can see is that you might want to try out some different rest positions so that you are familiar with them, and can use them to the best advantage.

For instance, when sitting, it is better to make contact with the fleshy parts of your arms and legs, rather that elbows directly on kneecaps.