How does assault weapon ban expiriation affect use of large magazines today?

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xwray

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I'm getting conflicting information and am looking for an authoritative source that explains how AWB firearms and magazines larger than 10 rounds may be used today.

Common sense would indicate that if there are no longer any restrictions (other than local...talking about federal here) one should be able to use any size magazine with any make/ model legally purchased domestic or imported semiauto firearm made prior to, during, and post AWB no matter what its as purchased configuration.

I suspect it's not that simple and I KNOW there is a dearth of common sense in use by our illustrious politicians especially regarding firearms laws.

I'd appreciate any feedback
 
When the ban expired, there was no longer any Federal regulation of magazines (at the user level - I have no idea what manufacturers of magazines must endure from the Feds).

With no code with which to charge you for violating, there can be no violations. Do as you like.
 
Some states chose to mirror the AWB in their laws, or used it as a model for similar legislation. In those states, you might still need preban stuff if it isn't banned outright.

Also, it torpedoed various manufacturers and various product lines.

Calico LWS, for example, was nearly put out of business by the AWB and seem to be just barely hanging on these days.

Or, Butler Creek hasn't made a 15 round 10/22 magazine since then.

A friend of mine has stories about "tuna can" 10/22 drum mags, but I'm skeptical.
 
Some states chose to mirror the AWB in their laws, or used it as a model for similar legislation. In those states, you might still need preban stuff if it isn't banned outright.

Yes ... while the Federal AWB has expired, the Massachusetts AWB [which mirrored the Federal AWB] is still in effect.

Only pre-ban magazines are legal in Massachusetts.
 
The brand Butler Creek is now owned by Bushnell. Their magazines are manufactured here in Idaho where I work. We still produce 10 & 25 round magazines for the Ruger 10/22 by the thousands for them. As mentioned the AWB is still enforced at the state level in many places. So we still continue to make the 10 round mags for those living in the more restrictive states or locations.
 
xwray,

At the federal level, there are no longer capacity restrictions on magazines as a result of the AWB's expiration. That being said, some states, such as MA, NY, NJ, CA, etc. have enacted capacity restrictions at the state level. It's a state by state issue.

If you tell us what state you live in, we can tell you whether or not your state restricts magazine capacity.
 
to use any size magazine with any make/ model legally purchased domestic or imported semiauto firearm made prior to, during, and post AWB no matter what its as purchased configuration.


The primary conflict would be with 18USC 922(r) which only allows the importation of 'sporting' rifles and shotguns, that then continue to have the same restrictions for possession, which cease to be sporting if you put a magazine in them over 10 rounds for a rifle or 5 for a shotgun.


To put a magazine in them over 10/5 rounds you need to have a specific number of American made parts in the rifle to reduce certain foreign parts numbers, otherwise you are in felony violation of 922(r).
Some rifles are just borderline acceptable and become legal just by using a magazine which can count as 3 of the American made parts, which as a result becomes the easy method of compliance many choose for such firearms.
However this is not recommended because it means when you slap in a foreign made magazine over 10 rounds (and some of the best are foreign for certain firearm designs) while changing magazines you just committed a felony. Borrowing a magazine at the range over 10 rounds could be a felony.
Many people shooting their guns at the range can as a result be committing multiple felonies as they change magazine to and from foreign and domestic magazines over 10 rounds. They are assembling a rifle in violation of 922(r) as interpreted by the ATF multiple times.

Other firearms are still below the required parts count even when an American made magazine is used and require 1 or more additional parts to be changed, and simply inserting an American magazine over 10/5 rounds is a felony.



This is how it applies to magazines as you asked, it can also apply to some other typically unregulated aftermarket parts such as pistol grip stocks. Installing a pistol grip you can buy anywhere can turn many foreign imported firearms into a felony weapon at the federal level under 922(r).
These rules are not actually part of the expired AWB, and came slightly before it.
They are likely what you are hearing about.
 
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"If you tell us what state you live in, we can tell you whether or not your state restricts magazine capacity."

I'm in Texas so there should be no problem based soley on magazine capacity.


"The primary conflict would be with 18USC 922(r) which only allows the importation of 'sporting' rifles and shotguns, that then continue to have the same restrictions for possession, which cease to be sporting if you put a magazine in them over 10 rounds for a rifle or 5 for a shotgun."

Let me put this in different words to see if I understand it. If you bought an imported weapon during the ban that would otherwise be characterized as an "assaut weapon with no sporting purpose" and therefore had to be configured with a 10 round magazine in order to be imported, the 10 round max magazine size still applies to that weapon no matter that there is no longer a general magazine size restriction restriction (unless you play the modify with american parts game)?

Now, I do believe it is legal to buy a current built in the USA AR15 platform rifle with 20 - 30 round magazines, right? What about foreign imports - now that the AW ban has expired can they now be imported and purchased with 20 - 30 round magazines or are they still restricted?

Sorry for all the questions but this justs hurts my head...
 
Well, some states kept their own versions of the laws. It also has made our people less likely to be willing to part with their larger magazines. I wasn't into guns until the very tail end of the AWB, where I was rather bummed out that I couldn't get an AK, so my perceptions could very well be rather inaccurate.
 
Let me put this in different words to see if I understand it. If you bought an imported weapon during the ban


No, it is separate legislation and is still in place. It was put in place in 1990, a few years before the Federal Assault Weapon Ban. It never sunset, and is still law.


with no sporting purpose" and therefore had to be configured with a 10 round magazine in order to be imported, the 10 round max magazine size still applies to that weapon no matter that there is no longer a general magazine size restriction restriction (unless you play the modify with american parts game)?

Yes this understanding is closer, but remember it has nothing to do with the AWB, and is separate legislation, but otherwise your understanding is correct.

If you bought an imported rifle or shotgun tomorrow, during the ban, or any time since 1990 it would need to be comply with 922(r). 922(r) would make it a crime to put a magazine holding over 10 rounds in the rifle, unless you add a suitable number of American parts to hit a 10 foreign parts or less number.
If you bought an American made AR-15 922(r) does not apply because it is not a foreign made import.
If you bought one of the foreign made AKs for example though it would need to comply with 922(r).
If you were to insert a magazine larger than 10 rounds into it in stock configuration without doing what firearm enthusiasts call a 'conversion' it would often be (depending on parts count) a felony.


922(r) is one of the more complicated gun laws that many people are unaware of.
So yes it should make your head hurt.
It essentially means the average person that does no research cannot simply install readily available and unrestricted aftermarket stocks, magazines, and similar items on foreign made guns.
Many people unknowingly commit this federal felony when they for example buy a pistol grip and install it. Or get one of the high quality foreign mags and use it in a stock foreign import.



It has been interpreted by the ATF to mean semi-auto firearms with detachable magazine have to have less than 10 foreign imported parts. This are not all parts but a specific list of certain parts.
Each rifle and shotgun has a different number of these foreign imported parts in them and before they can legally use a magazine holding over 10 rounds (for a rifle, and 5 for a shotgun.)


For example, a Saiga rifle, readily available at many gun stores, is a foreign import. It has 14 of the parts that count. A magazine can count as 3 parts (magazine body, follower, and floorplate) and so even an American made magazine over 10 rounds would be a felony to insert into a Saiga rifle without also changing one additional part.




Here is the parts that count towards 922(r) and that you can not have more than 10 foreign parts of:

(1) Receiver
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstock
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates


Not all firearms have all of those parts, and so the number varies with each type of firearm, and as a result how many new American parts are required to be installed to remain 922(r) compliant.
As in my example of the Saiga rifle it has 14 of those parts, and so you need to replace at least 4 of those parts with American made parts.
Furthermore you cannot count parts that don't come on the firearm towards the compliant part list even if you install them. You need to replace the correct number of parts that came (so for example installing a pistol grip on one that did not come with a pistol grip does not reduce the number of foreign parts, and in fact if you install a foreign made pistol grip you now need to add 5 other American parts instead of 4 in the Saiga example.)

Simply slapping in an 11+ round magazine that could be purchased into that firearm as it comes stock would be a federal felony, even though there is no restrictions on the size of magazines sold.
In order to use even an American made magazine, you would need to replace 1 additional part on the gun with an American made part first. Then you would meet the maximum 10 foreign parts and have minimal compliance using an American made magazine.

Since the magazine can count as 3, many people take the easy route and plan on counting those 3, and then they only need to actually remove and replace 1 of the parts in the gun.
However if they were to then use a foreign made magazine holding more than 10 rounds, and it was a rifle as in my example that takes 4 American parts, you would be adding 3 Foreign parts each time you inserted that magazine. And thus be 3 parts shy of compliance and committing a felony assembly swapping magazines.
So if you had 10 magazines at the range, and 5 of them were foreign, you would be committing 5 felonies running through those magazine as you swapped them in and out.
So if you want the 'freedom' to use any magazine you please you would need to replace 4 parts in that Saiga rifle example that do not include the 3 parts from the magazine.
Some parts obviously cost more than others, so people typically try to comply with the least expensive parts.


The same can go for installing a pistol grip, or folding stock, and some similar accessories. If you install a pistol grip you remove it from its 'sporting' configuration, and without installing the correct number of American parts are committing a felony.

This means when you buy a brand new imported semi-auto rifle/shotgun with great working parts you then need to remove those perfectly fine parts, sometimes parts that are of better quality than aftermarket parts, and replace them with aftermarket US parts to have the 'freedom' to use the magazine you want and accessories you want, and put it into the configuration of your choice.
There is also people that will do this service for you, at additional cost.

now that the AW ban has expired can they now be imported and purchased with 20 - 30 round magazines or are they still restricted?

Restricted, unless they have been converted by playing the parts game. Some businesses convert the rifle/shotgun before selling it, so replace the proper number of parts themselves. They then sell these rifles for an increased price above the cost of the parts the had to replace them with to make a profit.
If it is in the stock configuration it has typically not had internal parts 'converted' to allow legal use of any magazines.
You can buy the magazines, and you can buy the guns, in the same store at the same time no questions asked, but if you put the two together without playing the parts game you are committing a federal felony.
 
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If you bought an imported rifle or shotgun tomorrow, during the ban, or any time since 1990 it would need to be comply with 922(r). 922(r) would make it a crime to put a magazine holding over 10 rounds in the rifle, unless you add a suitable number of American parts to hit a 10 foreign parts or less number.
If you bought an American made AR-15 922(r) does not apply because it is not a foreign made import.
If you bought one of the foreign made AKs for example though it would need to comply with 922(r).
If you were to insert a magazine larger than 10 rounds into it in stock configuration without doing what firearm enthusiasts call a 'conversion' it would often be (depending on parts count) a felony.


922(r) is one of the more complicated gun laws that many people are unaware of.
So yes it should make your head hurt.
It essentially means the average person that does no research cannot simply install readily available and unrestricted aftermarket stocks, magazines, and similar items on foreign made guns.
Many people unknowingly commit this federal felony when they for example buy a pistol grip and install it. Or get one of the high quality foreign mags and use it in a stock foreign import.



It has been interpreted by the ATF to mean semi-auto firearms with detachable magazine have to have less than 10 foreign imported parts. This are not all parts but a specific list of certain parts.
Each rifle and shotgun has a different number of these foreign imported parts in them and before they can legally use a magazine holding over 10 rounds (for a rifle, and 5 for a shotgun.)


For example, a Saiga rifle, readily available at many gun stores, is a foreign import. It has 14 of the parts that count. A magazine can count as 3 parts (magazine body, follower, and floorplate) and so even an American made magazine over 10 rounds would be a felony to insert into a Saiga rifle without also changing one additional part.




Here is the parts that count towards 922(r) and that you can not have more than 10 foreign parts of:

(1) Receiver
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstock
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates


Not all firearms have all of those parts, and so the number varies with each type of firearm, and as a result how many new American parts are required to be installed to remain 922(r) compliant.
As in my example of the Saiga rifle it has 14 of those parts, and so you need to replace at least 4 of those parts with American made parts.
Furthermore you cannot count parts that don't come on the firearm towards the compliant part list even if you install them. You need to replace the correct number of parts that came (so for example installing a pistol grip on one that did not come with a pistol grip does not reduce the number of foreign parts, and in fact if you install a foreign made pistol grip you now need to add 5 other American parts instead of 4 in the Saiga example.)

Simply slapping in an 11+ round magazine that could be purchased into that firearm as it comes stock would be a federal felony, even though there is no restrictions on the size of magazines sold.
In order to use even an American made magazine, you would need to replace 1 additional part on the gun with an American made part first. Then you would meet the maximum 10 foreign parts and have minimal compliance using an American made magazine.

Since the magazine can count as 3, many people take the easy route and plan on counting those 3, and then they only need to actually remove and replace 1 of the parts in the gun.
However if they were to then use a foreign made magazine holding more than 10 rounds, and it was a rifle as in my example that takes 4 American parts, you would be adding 3 Foreign parts each time you inserted that magazine. And thus be 3 parts shy of compliance and committing a felony assembly swapping magazines.
So if you had 10 magazines at the range, and 5 of them were foreign, you would be committing 5 felonies running through those magazine as you swapped them in and out.
So if you want the 'freedom' to use any magazine you please you would need to replace 4 parts in that Saiga rifle example that do not include the 3 parts from the magazine.
Some parts obviously cost more than others, so people typically try to comply with the least expensive parts.


The same can go for installing a pistol grip, or folding stock, and some similar accessories. If you install a pistol grip you remove it from its 'sporting' configuration, and without installing the correct number of American parts are committing a felony.

This means when you buy a brand new imported semi-auto rifle/shotgun with great working parts you then need to remove those perfectly fine parts, sometimes parts that are of better quality than aftermarket parts, and replace them with aftermarket US parts to have the 'freedom' to use the magazine you want and accessories you want, and put it into the configuration of your choice.
There is also people that will do this service for you, at additional cost.

It sounds like 922(r) was conceived by some private prison lobbyists.
 
Thanks to all that replied...this has been a big help.

I wonder how many people out there are in violation without knowing it. What bothers me is that "they" could use trivial "violations" of such idiotic laws to round up citizens who they see as a threat...sort of a magazin nacht.
 
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