How does it feel to kill someone?

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traveler106

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http://www.vice.com/read/how-does-it-feel-to-kill-someone?utm_source=vicefbus

Part of the reason I own firearms is for self defense. I live in a bad neighborhood in east Oakland. Home invasion is a real danger, I hear gunshots every week, and there have been several shootings, some fatal, within a few blocks of the house I live in within the last year. Still, it is important to stay grounded and realize that taking a human life is not a simple thing for a normal person. Life is not a video game or an action movie with "good guys" and "bad guys."

Take a moment to read the soldier's story and the teenager's story.
 
Everyone is different... My first confirmed was May 18 th 1965. It the one of many that has stuck with me for 50 years... I pissed my pants and threw up.. could not get any sleep for about a week... it did not get much easier until my fifth patrol. I know first hand that shot placement and stress are two opposing forces.. so don't ever put your faith into shot placement...if you are shooting at a range, and think you are a good shot... because you can breath, take the time to acquire a good sight picture, and with good hold discipline you can squeeze off a round and put it where you want it... try that when the target is moving and shooting back... its a whole new ball game... in Combat we call shot placement " Luck" as a civilian you are not going to get the stress practice that us combat vets got.. it took me about 5 patrols to completely remove the stress level. IM only saying this because too many civilians can put five holes in a target and think because of this, they will react in the same manner if they are mugged or put under heavy stress when their heart rate goes from 60 beat per minute to 150 beat per minute..

Even cops who participate in stress management tactical assessment courses know they are going home after the exercise... .

The whole idea about personal carry is having the confidence in having a fighting chance as oppose to being complexly helpless... No one in their right mind would want to take a human life, because your life changes forever...

with this confidence you can walk around confidently...as oppose to looking like a victim.. your body language and confidence will help a bad guy choose a more vulnerable victim than some who gives eye contact and walks with confidence......
 
I cannot imagine all of the stresses that will result from such an act, but I would hope I could stay mindful that taking a life was never the intent, stopping the threat was the intent. If death follows as a consequence, that is the result of the assailants actions, not mine.
 
AKElroy said:
I cannot imagine all of the stresses that will result from such an act, but I would hope I could stay mindful that taking a life was never the intent, stopping the threat was the intent. If death follows as a consequence, that is the result of the assailants actions, not mine.
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It is only hopeful to imagine how you think you will feel. And impossible to know for sure until you have been in that situation. I never hope that someone has to go through taking another life but if it happens they remain steadfast that the decision was the only viable option.

Veterans and combat vets specifically deal with this question a lot from civilians. And I haven't found a good answer to it other than walking away. Everytime I was in a position where I took a life, I relive it. Was there another way? I am confident there wasn't in each instance and that is what I tell myself. I wouldn't necessarily call the emotion remorse or guilt though.
 
LTC David Grosman's On Killing & On Combat ....

If you want to research or review this topic, I'd suggest the books of LTC David Grosman(0-5, US Army, retired).
Grosman was a lower enlisted paratrooper who later obtained his PhD & was a commissioned US Army officer. He did in depth reviews of military training & the mindset behind being in real combat.
His later research expanded into first responders & those in armed professions(sworn LE) who faced lethal force events.

I don't agree with all of LTC Grosman's data or input but he does raise some valid points for those who may face death or killing.

Note; there are 2 printed versions of On Killing, I'd suggest the newer 2009 ed. It covers more recent media & high profile incidents.
 
AKElroy said:
I cannot imagine all of the stresses that will result from such an act, but I would hope I could stay mindful that taking a life was never the intent, stopping the threat was the intent. If death follows as a consequence, that is the result of the assailants actions, not mine.
Click to expand...
^^^
This.
 
My Dad (1922 - 2004) was a bombardier during WWII flying daylight missions over Nazi Germany. He told me that he certainly killed many people and it bothered him that they died serving an evil Dictator. Many allied planes were shot down during these raids. He lost some good buddies and that's what bothered him most of all.

TR
 
What prompted this morbid topic? As for how it feels, well that depends on how close you are and how clearly you can see them when you do it. Putting rounds into a silhouette on a ridgeline 3-4 hundred meters away with an M-14 doesn't seem to stay with me as long as lighting someone up with an M-4 inside a mud hut, or in the courtyard of a compound. I bet the guys firing the indirect were even less bothered when their rounds hit someone. Distance is your friend..... in a whole lot of ways.
 
RustyShackelford said:
If you want to research or review this topic, I'd suggest the books of LTC David Grosman(0-5, US Army, retired).
Grosman was a lower enlisted paratrooper who later obtained his PhD & was a commissioned US Army officer. He did in depth reviews of military training & the mindset behind being in real combat.
His later research expanded into first responders & those in armed professions(sworn LE) who faced lethal force events.

I don't agree with all of LTC Grosman's data or input but he does raise some valid points for those who may face death or killing.

Note; there are 2 printed versions of On Killing, I'd suggest the newer 2009 ed. It covers more recent media & high profile incidents.
Click to expand...
+1. I hope I never have to find out either. I've had an incident where I would have been legally justified in shooting, but refrained from doing so because I did not feel morally justified. I'm glad I did. I'm trying to get through this life without taking anyone else's.
 
Perhaps people who have been there can share things that will give insight to those who haven't, help those who have recently and in general help folks understand more of what it is about. Anything from people who have not experienced it is just guesswork and speculation.
 
Into the Kill Zone: A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force Paperback – September 22, 2006
by David Klinger (Author)

DEADLY FORCE ENCOUNTERS
Alexis Artwohl, Ph.D., and Loren W. Christensen

Two books from the police perspective but useful for anyone.
 
For one view, see the article by SGM Kyle Lamb (Ret.) in the August G&A. I have to respect his views on military combat since I was never in combat. Nor have I been in a gunfight, even though I was a LEO for several years.

But it seems to me that the article, Combat Mindset, Part I, goes to an extreme. I can't imagine that SGM Lamb goes about in his daily life "prepared" as he is shown in the accompanying picture. If he does, he would certainly be a guest of the police in even the most gun-friendly city or state.

He makes some good points, but does it make sense for every CCW carrier to have complete EMT training, and go around with a full medical trauma kit? The armed citizen is not part of a SEAL team, not part of an infantry regiment. He does need to recognize the seriousness of carrying a gun and the consequences of using it, but it seems to me that some of the professional "trainers" have gone from one extreme (shooting small groups) to the other (walk around armed with an M16 and hand grenades, and train like a member of the Delta force).

Jim
 
Take it for what it's worth

I can't cite this quote

Because I can't remember the name of the book. But I remember reading a book about air combat in WWI that talked about a British pilot ( Manning I think) who wrote once in his diary " Sizzle,sizzle, sizzle, I sent another one to Hell today. I hope he burned all the way down. He then recounted in great detail how he rode the kill all the way to the ground W/ the specific intent of watching the the German pilot burn to death.

That doesn't sound like a man who was stricken by conscience to me

I can cite this quote

Gregory Boyington recounted a similar incident in his book " Baa Baa Black Sheep"

He also tells of a time when he fired on a Japanese plane that showed no damage but was obviously going down out of control he said he flew next to the plane saw that the pilot was dead and sent another burst into the plane until it blew up. He said that the only time he felt squeamish was when the plane exploded.

Last example:

Boyington all so talks about flying around killing people ( his words) on Christmas Day 1943 & how only once did he stop and think about what a hell of a thing that was for one man to do to another (his words again) on Chirstmas.

So were these two just Psycho? (Boyington was a drunk by his own admission but that was way prior to the war) I don't think they were .
 
None who has never done it can know, and there is little to be gleaned from reading the accounts of others.

Each of us has a unique background, unique experiences, a unique psychological makeup, and even a unique understanding of the subtle nuances of understanding of the words we use. None of us will interprets what someone else says about such an emotional topic int he way that was intended by the speaker.

Additionally, for reasons covered here in the past, we strongly discourage the posting in an open forum of stamens involving use of force encounters.

For those reasons I do not see much to be gained by continuing this line of discussion.

Should someone believe that he or she has something of value to offer, send a PM to one of the Moderators, and we will consider repenting the thread.
 
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