How far can you hit ?
- Thread starter David E
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Back in the late '30s Ed McGivern did a lot of shooting at 600 yards with an S&W .357 and his results are very well documented in his book "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting", you can download the book for about $3 now.
It has some very useful and insightful information on just what a revolver with a good shooter is capable of, not that us mere mortals could do the same-but practice and experience can easily improve performance.
In general I would say that it might be very unhealthy to stand up 100 yards away from a skilled shooter and expect to be safe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_McGivern
It has some very useful and insightful information on just what a revolver with a good shooter is capable of, not that us mere mortals could do the same-but practice and experience can easily improve performance.
In general I would say that it might be very unhealthy to stand up 100 yards away from a skilled shooter and expect to be safe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_McGivern
M2 Carbine
member
In the late 1960's, while instructing at the Army helicopter school, I had a student fresh back from Vietnam who was awarded the Silver Star for killing a bunch of VC with a 1911A1. I don't remember the body count but it was a bunch.
He had been shot down and his M60 was jammed in the helicopter, so he used his 45.
The closest dead VC was at 7 yards, the furtherest was 97 yards.
He had been shot down and his M60 was jammed in the helicopter, so he used his 45.
The closest dead VC was at 7 yards, the furtherest was 97 yards.
ccsniper
member
Don't mean to brag (Okay, yes I do) but I have a high standard sentinel with a one and a half inch barrel that I can hit 3 beer bottles out of 5 all day long at a 100 yards. Me and a friend have this game where we take my little .22 to the range and then proceed to shoot until we miss our target, then hand it off to the next guy, whoever has more holes on his 10" shoot n see target wins lunch.
coolluke01
Member
Today at the range I was sighting in my Ar15 at 200 yards. When I was done I took my carry gun G26 and thought I would try to hit the 24" plate at 200 yards. It took two rounds to find the right elevation and then I hit it with the 3rd shot. I didn't want to shoot all my carry ammo so I didn't shoot anymore. Luck? Maybe but I was happy with it. 
Erik M
Member
I think realistically, with my 6" GP100, shooting factory .357 I can do my part and pull off 6"-8" at 50 yards. I don't get to practice like I used to.
MCgunner
Member
A basketball size target, I can plug it 3 out of 5 usually at 100 yards. I used to have a 14" gong at 100 yards on our range that I liked to shoot at with my 2" Taurus 85 Ultralite. I even had a front sight dovetailed in the gun and have an elevation wire put in it for reference on long range targets. I don't foresee the need for this, but it's fun. When plinking, I usually shoot from a modified (due to the short barrel) Creedmore.
My 6.5" blackhawk shoots 4" groups from the bench at 100 yards, my 10" 7mmTCU Contender...well, that's cheating.
When plinking, I usually shoot from a modified (due to the short barrel) Creedmore.My 6.5" blackhawk shoots 4" groups from the bench at 100 yards, my 10" 7mmTCU Contender...well, that's cheating.
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At the range today, and was shooting at a steel silhouette target about the size of a B-27 at 50 yards. In the video, I hit 4 out f 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcujf0g4WPM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcujf0g4WPM
MCgunner
Member
Not sure if that was a typo or a Freudian slip.
BCRider
Member
rcmodel said:
That makes a lot more sense. I'll have to try that.
It also suggests to me that it would be interesting if the front sight had some white filled "ranging" lines down the back of the blade. Nothing graduated, simply two or three added "hack lines" that could be seen down the back of the front blade for anyone seriously looking for them.
Only needed for rounds being used that are slower though. Another guy shoots that same target out at 200 with a .454Casull Ruger using no holdover. Or if he uses anything he simply aims at the upper portion of the old steel cylinder.
Back to the question.....
During our Speed Steel club matches we sometimes have an 18x24 inch plate out at 50 yards. Of course this is engaged without the benefit of any "ranging" shots. To date I have not had much trouble in hitting it with any of the guns I've used. The odd time I've missed it was due more to trigger control issues than sighting.
When I'm shooting .38Spl at this target I'll aim at the top edge and get middle to lower area hits using relatively soft loads that work with my Model 10 fixed sights. With 9mm or .22 I simply aim for the middle of the upper half. Based on this I think I could hit a basket ball size target at 50 about 8 out of 10 times for a first "cold" shot.
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David E
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Again, that's how Elmer Keith did it.
Earlier this year I was out with the dog and a coyote came into view moving right to left. The dog and I stood motionless and for whatever reasons the coyote changed direction and advanced upon us.
The front sight of the 38 Super (stock Colt Government) was wider than the coyote so I "balanced" the coyote's ears on top of the front sight, guesstimated 75-80 yards on the closing 'yote and ended up with a shoulder hit. Turned out to be a 95 yard shot.
Coyotes, javelina and pigs etc are very unpredictable when it comes to dogs, as this 'yote proved to be.
The front sight of the 38 Super (stock Colt Government) was wider than the coyote so I "balanced" the coyote's ears on top of the front sight, guesstimated 75-80 yards on the closing 'yote and ended up with a shoulder hit. Turned out to be a 95 yard shot.
Coyotes, javelina and pigs etc are very unpredictable when it comes to dogs, as this 'yote proved to be.
SharpsDressedMan
member
Just noticed, but after much long range shooting myself, I do not seem to question the authenticity of others when they relate these "long range" stories. I just believe them.
GP100man
Member
We used to shoot at a truck rim across the feild when we were younger , it was fun when the feild was disked up & ya could see the dirt/dust kik up as we walked the shots in.
More hits then ,than now !! focusing is fuzzier now & trying to hit a fuzzy truck rim don`t work so hot .
I do shoot at a 8" plate at 50yds to practice for hunting season. I get more hits when I practice daily ,even if it`s a few shots each evening.
More hits then ,than now !! focusing is fuzzier now & trying to hit a fuzzy truck rim don`t work so hot .
I do shoot at a 8" plate at 50yds to practice for hunting season. I get more hits when I practice daily ,even if it`s a few shots each evening.
Wind at your back with a couple of mulligans, right?
I drove a par 4 like that once.
Theoretically if you measure the sight radius of the open sight, and convert the units above to MOA, you could adjust the aiming point to give a fairly accurate system of reference along the front sight. Run the ballistics for your load and make 1st shots at longer distances. I think those "units" above measure about 30 MOA or so. Haven't tested it yet, but will soon. This is on a Ruger Mk. III Tgt. 5.5". Am having too much fun with optics on top now to find out.
For the iron-sight shooters, Ed Wosika wrote a very long piece years ago that expanded on Elmer Keith's LR shooting, titled, "Shooting Your Pistols Accurately at Extremely Long Range" if you can find it [it's on the net somewhere]. Roger Clouser also wrote 3 pieces in Accurate Rifle magazine years ago that were great.
Here's 225 and 300-yd. 1st shots on a coffee cup and coke can in some wind with a Barska 2x shooting bulk Federal Wal-Mart stuff, and using a generic 22 LR ballistic program's calcs./finger-adjustable turret [30 and 50 MOA up from 50-yd. zero]--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNafED1Rv7k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whC3fwmOk5c
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LiveLife
Member
I Googled it and here's the link to Ed's article - http://www.fiveshot.org/guests/longrange.htmsscoyote said:
BTW, thanks! Interesting read.
thk. you sir--really just applied mathematics is all though. Believe it or not that Barska returns to zero very well. The really neat part was shooting at 300, and then cranking back down to 50-yd. zero, and it was dead on the nose.
Interestingly though, Clouser says the system Wosika (and Keith) used-scribing the front sight, isn't good enough as it's difficult to see in certain lighting conditions. But unfortunately, i don't have the copy of Accurate Rifle in which he details the alternate system he's using with the front sight. I'm assuming he maybe colored each unit alternately--maybe white, black, white or something like that so it stands out better.
You know the same thing could be applied with one of those sights that has the tiny fluorescent dot in it (don't know what it's called as i dont' shoot iron sights much). That could be a separate unit unto itself though, basically breaking the front sight up into 3 separate units, the top part, then the dot, then the lower part. MOA measurements could then be made as detailed above, and applied to a ballistics program. I imagine it's already been done by someone but i've never seen it written up anywhere. Be an interesting research project though i'd imagine.
In the Wosika article i've broken down his "big click" math, but i can't figure out the little click math. Still working on that one. He says in the article that by applying his "little click system" he had the capability to resolve down to 2 MOA i think it was--i couldn't believe he could accomplish that, but he said he could...?
Interestingly though, Clouser says the system Wosika (and Keith) used-scribing the front sight, isn't good enough as it's difficult to see in certain lighting conditions. But unfortunately, i don't have the copy of Accurate Rifle in which he details the alternate system he's using with the front sight. I'm assuming he maybe colored each unit alternately--maybe white, black, white or something like that so it stands out better.
You know the same thing could be applied with one of those sights that has the tiny fluorescent dot in it (don't know what it's called as i dont' shoot iron sights much). That could be a separate unit unto itself though, basically breaking the front sight up into 3 separate units, the top part, then the dot, then the lower part. MOA measurements could then be made as detailed above, and applied to a ballistics program. I imagine it's already been done by someone but i've never seen it written up anywhere. Be an interesting research project though i'd imagine.
In the Wosika article i've broken down his "big click" math, but i can't figure out the little click math. Still working on that one. He says in the article that by applying his "little click system" he had the capability to resolve down to 2 MOA i think it was--i couldn't believe he could accomplish that, but he said he could...?
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