How Far is Too Far?

[shaggy430]

I will not take a shot that I don't feel confident that I can make. That being said, I feel 100% confident out to at least 350 from prone position with a clear line of sight and no wind with a flat shooting rifle.

 

[kingmt]

I guess after reading again and again I stand by my original post.
What caliber did you shoot that deer with that took 4 hrs to find and still not be dead?
You said you tracked and stalked for 4 hrs and I don't understand a word of that so maybe when you say you should try to comunicate more coherently.:banghead:


I will never support the notion of a head shot unless you are talking about a headon charge from a large dangerous animal with a very substantial caliber capable of making sever damage in the body if the brain or spine is missed.
__________________

I'm sorry I will try to type slower so you can understand.

When I found the deer it was laying in the spot I had shot from.

I was useing a 30-06 Springfield. Probably a 150gr. I do not know manufacture though. It has been to long.

I didn't ask for permission to take head shoots I take them because it is the most ethical & conservative shoot to me. Not that I think everyone should but it is what I do. If you think it is unethical then think about the deer you shoot in the heart. The heart is at best a educated guess of where it is but you still get the lungs if your close. When you do make that heart shoot it runs average 50 yards & is dead in about 10 seconds at best. It may take longer depending on determination to live. Even if you miss the heart then you still get the lungs most of the time. Now your on the track to find it & it should be within 300 yards which is a easy find if you don't loose the blood trail. It should also be dead within 2 hours. This is a good shoot & well within ethical standards by most. When I shoot them in the head I have yet to loose one & the are dead the second the bullet hits there head. No tracking or or long death. I can't even think that they knew I was around.

I don't support freehand shooting & suggest against it but I won't call a person unethical that can & does.

I know you have reasons for believing what you do whether it be tought to you or self experience but just because it is unethical for you doesn't make it a law. We have enough laws because someone else thinks it is unethical. Look at the Brady Bill. It was unethical to have more then ten round clips.

 

[kingmt]

IMHO
I'd say most of us know full well what range we can accurately shoot from and hit a vital spot. And if someone doesn't know, they should find out. But the problem arises when a hunter wants the deer, elk, or whatever, so bad that he's not willing to pass on a shot that he knows darn well that he shouldn't take. Once he does that, whether he drops the game or not, it's an unethical shot.

Aman

 

[X-Rap]

You are correct and there are no laws (thankfully) requiring the placement of a shot or the distance it is taken, we have our differences on what we think is and isn't ethical and that probably won't change.
I still believe that head and neck shots result in a substantial number of wounded and unrecovered game the rest probably come from being shot at from to far by those not up to the task.

 

[freakshow10mm]

I sight my rifles in for MPBR. If it's farther than that, I just watch.

 

[kingmt]

You are correct and there are no laws (thankfully) requiring the placement of a shot or the distance it is taken, we have our differences on what we think is and isn't ethical and that probably won't change.
I still believe that head and neck shots result in a substantial number of wounded and unrecovered game the rest probably come from being shot at from to far by those not up to the task.

Now we are close to the same page. Sorry for the other comment/s. I don't know the numbers of people that even take a head shoot & there is very few that I know that can. I have passed up good shoots on deer to make this my standard. I have also spent a lot of time stalking & waiting to get that shot. I hear people complain that a deer wouldn't stop for the to get a good shoulder shot. It is even harder to get the head shoot unless they are in a field. I have always carried a pack with me to rest off from until this year & decided to go with a stick which seem to work for me.

I do know a few that share my thoughts but it isn't the sport for everyone. Somewhat like stalking it isn't for everyone. I pick the scopes that I can make out which hair I want to aim at to take the shoot. I keep my scope on the highest power 16x40or50 zoom where most people say they can't find the deer w/9x30 zoom. I know I do thing different then most & some don't understand. I also don't think that 300 is to far especially for a 30-06. I just said that was when I quit. Since I take head shoots I wouldn't try 300 unless I was on a bench & it was a calm day.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

How far is too far??? Good question with many answers...most of them true in any given situation.

A better question....How far can you make the shot???


Just to stir the pot a little,
I shot this lil 5 pointer a few days ago...


437 yards (lasered) with a Remington SPS Tactical in 308 Winchester. The hole you see is the exit wound, the bullet entered through the shoulder on the other side....BANG, FLOP! Dead before he hit the ground...

I'm confident in my skills with a rifle and cartridge I'm familiar with and my knowledge of ballistics and trajectory...with this rifle, on game, 600 yards is meat in the freezer. The rifle is capable of a bit more range, and so am I...but past 600 yards the variables (mainly wind) can cause headaches.

 

[blackops]

You can say sneak closer all you want, but that isn't practical in every area. I just don't understand all the bashing of big magnum calibers and long shots...

There is a fine line between hunting and shooting. I myself have no problem taking a 350yd shot with my 270, but that is strickly because of my terrain. Also everything has to be perfect. Conditions, position, and knowing your own capabilities all come into play. That said not all of my shots have been at that kind of range either. I find it humorous when people claim that if you can’t get within 150yds you don’t deserve the game. I tell them come to 9000ft of elevation, walk 5 miles (as a crow fly’s) of canyons that ends up at 6000ft, and then come talk to me. Where I rifle hunt is very tough terrain and stalking across a canyon is impossible. You simply can’t make up enough ground on an animal while being quite and it’s as simple as that. That’s why I never bow hunt in that particular area. However some people feel inclined to take long shots even when they can put forth the effort to actually close the distance. Many of these people I find wound more animals than they have killed. Believe me I know some of them personally and no longer will deer hunt with them. As for the bigger cartridges I personally think they are unnecessary, but I would rather a hunter have too much gun than not enough.

 

[X-Rap]

Well said.
I can also relate to the terrain and it is exactly what caused me to push my abilities and grow to be a better shooter.
An area I hunted some yrs ago had a ridge that was quite isolated and the elk bedded and traveled it freely and would hold back until after dark before they exposed themselves to hunters. I more than once tried to stalk the ridge that was about 150 yds across but the elk always evaded my efforts.
I could often see the elk across a wide valley but after checking the range with the old style mechanical range finder I decided it was to far for me or my equipment. I have since got better range finders and gun/optics and if I go back to that place and the oportunity presents itself I will not have to hesitate since I have practiced and understand the mechanics of the longer distance shot.
Anyone who has hunted in the open canyons and high country understands these natural geograpic barriers and knows how the animals adapt to using it to their advantage.
I made a 1/4 mile shot on an antelope under similar conditions, he was in the bottom of a very large drainage and I had crawled down the slope to the point that I would be exposed if I went any farther, I had persued this group from other directions over the preseeding days and in the open country they were unaprochable so I made the shot and got him. I had shot from greater than that distance and knew the results on paper so I was comfortable with the shot on game.

 

[Zeke/PA]

My suggestion is to make a serious study of the late and very great Jack O'conner who has actually expirenced shots on game at longer ranges.
In Jack's narratives it will be explained IN DETAIL how to "zero" your rifle and how to "HOLD" on an animal at an extended range.
There is no better!

 

[Ankeny]

I still believe that head and neck shots result in a substantial number of wounded and unrecovered game the rest probably come from being shot at from to far by those not up to the task.

I have spent countless hours visiting with wardens and enforcement officers about "ethical" shooting. FYI, both of our local wardens believe the most problematic aspect of hunting today is ethical shooting. They also believe (based on personal experience) that the most failed shot (resulting in a huge number of cripples) is the head/neck shot. Many who promote the head/neck shot seem to believe it's either a clean kill or a clean miss. All of those big game animals with blown off jaws, shattered nostrils, holes in the throat, etc., didn't get that way from a clean miss.

There is no better!

I think Kentucky windage and "holding over" are pretty much a thing of the past. I use a wind meter, laser range finder, and a pocket PC (if time allows) to calculate the corrections, then I dial turrets. If there is a zero value wind, sometimes I'll shoot to 400 yards just using the reticle.

 

[nastynatesfish]

too long for what?

I understand that there are a lot of hunters with a lot of guns that all kill there game whether it be squirrels or elk to african game. myself I use a 7rem mag for all my hunting. feral hog deer antelope white tail and muledeer. hell ever jack rabbits for practice. I'm not goin to get into the big gun bravada but what a long shot to someone in illinois or wisconsin is a pop shot for wyoming montana and here in arizona. this past november I shot my buck at 460yrds and dropped him in his tracks. last season I found a buck laying that someone shot with a small gun and never found. my point is if you can make a good clean ethical kill so as not to make your game suffer take it. I have a 223 also but I wouldn't take it elk hunting.

 

[schlockinz]

I have spent countless hours visiting with wardens and enforcement officers about "ethical" shooting. FYI, both of our local wardens believe the most problematic aspect of hunting today is ethical shooting. They also believe (based on personal experience) that the most failed shot (resulting in a huge number of cripples) is the head/neck shot. Many who promote the head/neck shot seem to believe it's either a clean kill or a clean miss. All of those big game animals with blown off jaws, shattered nostrils, holes in the throat, etc., didn't get that way from a clean miss.

I've shot a deer that had a missed neck shot one year, big scar that looked like it came from a .50 muzzleloader down one side of the neck. I kinda wished that I had caped that deer.

 

[kyle1974]

If you want to know how bad some hunters shoot, just start looking at targets next time you go to the range. I was at the range a few weeks ago, letting the barrel cool, and started looking at some of the "neighbor's" targets. One guy in particular next to me was ALL over the paper... he'd shoot once or twice, make a scope adjustment, shoot again...adjust again...then let his wife/girlfriend shoot... adjust again. finally after about 1 1/2 boxes of shells, they hit a bullseye, and sounded out a "there, that's about time! we're good now"....

I'm sure they went to the deer stand within the next couple days..... probably ready for anything out to 400 yards.

 

[RockinU]

I guess it is those kind of guys that keep a tracking service in business.

They do, also keeps me in shape during hunting season...almost 3 miles this last weekend...

 

[RockinU]

"...How Far is Too Far?..." It's the distance beyond which you can't hit a 9" pie plate, off hand, with your hunting ammo, every time.
"...vids..." Mean exactly nothing. Especially, Youtube videos.

Now that is just silly. taking shots over 100 yards (and for many that may be questionable) off hand is of questionable responsibility. There are too many good bi-pods, tri-pods, shooting sticks, etc. to make that a requirement. At the very least the sitting or prone positions are available, not to mention the fact that most habitats have an occasional tree from which a rest may be taken.

 

[RockinU]

I think part of the answer is, "How far and how often do you practice, from field positions?"

Many a man who only shoots at 100 yards from a bench has an inflated opinion of his skills in the field.

If this is addressed to me, I shoot off the bench when zeroing a rifle, when I practice I shoot off stoney point shooting sticks, usually sitting, elbows on knees, with a jacket/blanket/pack supporting my left knee. It's how I'm most comfortable, easy to achieve, and very affective for shooting across draws, gullys, etc. And I figure if I can shoot it like that, shooting from a blind won't raise the challenge any. I will have to look back at the log, but I think I shot 34 deer last year between beginning of Oct. to the end of Feb. In the off season I seldom go longer than two weeks without a hog hunt, varmit hunt, or just a shooting session. No idea how many rounds I go through in a year, nor do I want to know. How far do I practice? A game warden friend of mine set a steel plate target (actually the piece of metal that is between the rail and cross tie on train tracks) 600 yards out from camp on the side of a ridge. That is not our most frequent target, but when the wind is right we have a match or two at that distance. While I haven't shot a deer at 600, that plate doesn't intimidate me like it once did, and my percentage of hits on it continues to climb.

Reminds me...always wear hearing protection. I used to be all macho, down to 20% in my left ear because of it. Peltors even live on the grab handle of my hunting pack.

 

[RockinU]

All of those big game animals with blown off jaws, shattered nostrils, holes in the throat, etc., didn't get that way from a clean miss.

Having had to track and run two deer with blown off lower jaws in the last 2 years, I can attest to how terrible it is. They are harder to bring to bay than a leg shot, or gut shot deer. However for me I feel more compelled to finish those tracks than most others, since lots of leg shot deer actually stand a chance to recover, and a blown off lower jaw is a more lingering and pain wracked death than even a gut shot...I know it's time to break out the track shoes, and carry plenty of water when I get one of those calls.

 

[H&Hhunter]

myself I use a 7rem mag for all my hunting.

nastynatesfish,

So what is the big gun that you shoot?

 

[RockinU]

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