How light are the rounds in real competition shooting?

[rock jock]

I shoot a lot of IDPA and know of guys who download their revolver rounds almost to the point that they don't make it out of the barrel (yes, we are not a stickler for rules in our local club). But, I was amazed watching one of the big competitions on TV yesterday how light the loads are. I think Todd Jarett was shooting a limited gun, and the end of the gun never rose more than a fraction of an inch. I also noticed that I could actually see the slide cycling, which I have never been able to see at the range. What kind of velocity and energy levels are they loading to? I assume the competition was something like the Bianchi Cup, or similar.

 

[mpthole]

USPSA has the same power floors as IDPA: 125 for minor (9mm and revolvers) and 165 for major (.45). Don't know anything about Bianchi cup or other events.

I load my handloads pretty hot comparatively speaking. At the WI Section match my power factor came in at 192 for my .45 loads. I can still run a bill drill pretty fast. But I think I'll need to tone them down a bit if I ever want to get out of C class.

 

[lycanthrope]

A good grip combined with very light springs (as low as 9lbs in a Limited gun) have more to do with the muzzle rise than the power factor. The light spring is why you could watch the slide cycle. In a .40 with 180gr bullets you need at least 916fps to make Major. With 165s you need 1000fps.

Many people also use a Tungsten guide rod and full dustcovers out front to increase weight. The Limited guns look heavy, but a standard full dustcover, bull barreled STI Edge still weighs less empty than a Government Model .45.

 

[Supermoto]

Steel challenge does not have the power factor that USPSA or IDPA does.

Most people download the round and use 9mm or 38 super I think a power factor of around 115 is used, but I could be wrong

 

[Nhsport]

If you pay attention you will notice many of the "top" shooters are real big in upper body strength. not all but most of them. Strength,size,technique,are all part of the deal.
I once got in on a dealer only show (buddy was a dealer) where Jerry Micklick (sp?) did a demo with his 625(45acp) revolver. He was cranking off full cylinders so fast you could hardly hear the seperate shots,and he was keeping all shots on playing cards at 10 yards. We (only a dozen of us) were standing right next to him and the gun just was not moveing up and down,just slightly front to back. Somebody said something about a trick trigger and powder puff loads. He let us try the gun and he actually had an extra heavy rebound spring because the factory guns would not reset the trigger fast enough to suit him. The kicker was he was shooting 230 rn ball ammo. Guy was amazeing! If I had see it on TV I would suspect trick photos but we were standing right there!

 

[HSMITH]

It isn't the light loads, those guys can do that with full power defensive ammo and make it look just as easy. SKILL is the factor, not the loads.

 

[Wakal]

The trick is technique and properly tuned equipment.

Oh, and a whole lot of practice

My standard load is a 115 grain .355 bullet traveling at 1495 fps. My Limited gun runs a 180 grain bullet at 950 fps. I'm just a hack Master class guy

And yes, Jerry is a hell of a shooter. Grills a great hamburger, too.






Alex

 

[Chris Rhines]

Varies depending on the type of shooting. IPSC/USPSA Limited loads run about like a standard-pressure .40S&W. IPSC/USPSA Open, you're shooting something about like a 9mm+P+. Most Production shooters that I know shoot factory 9mm, standard pressure.

- Chris

 

[Deanimator]

I shoot nothing but bullseye competition. The bullet just needs to reach the target!

I use 3.6-3.8gr. of Bullseye with a 200gr. LSWC for the .45acp in my wadcutter gun. I use 2.8gr. of Bullseye with a 148gr. LHBWC for the .38 Special in my Giles M1911. I seat under the case mouth and roll crimp over the bullet. For my K-38, I use a 148gr. LDEWC with a 2.8-3.0gr. of Bullseye. I seat to the last groove and roll crimp into it.

Use a reloading manual so you don't kill yourself.

 

[sturmruger]

I heard Todd Jarret speak in Millwaukee a few weeks ago. He said that he shoots around 85K rounds per year!!

 

[rchernandez]

Deanimator: I shoot nothing but bullseye competition. The bullet just needs to reach the target!

I use 3.6-3.8gr. of Bullseye with a 200gr. LSWC for the .45acp in my wadcutter gun...<snip>

Use a reloading manual so you don't kill yourself.

Do you shoot open sights or red dot? Do you adjust sight or scope between 50yards and 25yards? Did you change barrel in your wad gun?

 

[Deanimator]

Do you shoot open sights or red dot? Do you adjust sight or scope between 50yards and 25yards? Did you change barrel in your wad gun?

I don't shoot ball matches (Excellence in Competition - EIC) matches, which require iron sights and a [mostly] stock gun. I have 1" UltraDots on all of my Bullseye autos. Almost nobody shoots iron sights in NRA Conventional Pistol any more. Other than flat broke beginners, you'll see maybe one gun in a hundred that doesn't have a dot sight of some sort. I've seen more guns with low power optical scopes than I've seen iron sights in the last ten years.

I haven't shot anything but 50' for a couple of years, but as I recall, I did have to make sight changes with the .45. My Series 70 Colt has the original barrel.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Wimp loads

You will only see wimp loads in the USPSA Production class where all competitors shoot minor by definition. Even then, the top shooters load their ammo to a 130 to 135 Power Factor. The reason is the need for fast cycling and reliable feeding.

In all the other classes people are shooting major loads. If the guns don't seem to be bucking and kicking it's because we have learned how to load ammo, change springs, shift the weight etc. to do so. Hand strength is part of it, but practice is most important. Once you become one with your pistol a slow motion video would actually show the muzzle is flipping up but the shooter is instinctively bringing it back down ASAP.

Bob.

 

[jefmad]

Do you shoot open sights or red dot? Do you adjust sight or scope between 50yards and 25yards? Did you change barrel in your wad gun?

I shoot a similar load and need to adjust my sight about 3-4" between 25 yards and 50 yards. I just marked the proper adjustments with nail polish and it works great. This is abother reason to get an Ultradot scope, the consistency moving back and forth between the 2 marks.

 

[HankB]

Some years back, one of the gun rags reported a top shooter was asked how much he practiced for a particular match. He said "70,000."

The reporter said "You shot 70,000 rounds?"

No, he shot $70,000 worth of factory ammo. Practicing for that match.

With the gun and ammo subsidies that come with factory sponsorship, the top tier shooters wear out a couple of guns apiece each year.

For comparison, how many guns do you wear out annually?

 

[Navy joe]

Depends. I shot USPSA L-10 before I reloaded and did it with 230gr factory ball.

My 9mm production loads are hotter than factory.

Some USPSA open shooters are not looking for a soft shooting load since they have to make power factor anyway, they want loads that track the gun smoothly. Sometimes this means more powder, slower burning powder or both to get that compensator working. Not what the average gunstore counter leaner would think about those competition pansies, but there are plenty out there who will tell you about their 9x19 compression load with a straight and unscarred face. Those loaders generally know exactly what they are doing and get amazing results. Such as Wakal 115gr @ 1495. You will know it when that nasty sounding thing goes off close to you. Not exactly a wimp load.

Now on the other hand I have seen someone try to make 125 Pf with a .45 for IDPA revolver. Bullet bounced back off of rubber faced bullet trap. Hit me in the leg. No harm done. Saw someone leave a steel challenge early, they thought they had the trick load, again in .45. Missed a plate on the first stage, hit 2x4 plate holder, bounced off. Back to the reloading manual!