How light can I go? .44mag JSP

[daroccot]

I'm having a hard time finding a reduced load for .44mag using a 240gr JSP. I plan on using Bullseye. Alliant site calls for 8.9gr at ~1200fps, even if I reduce by 10% that's still 8.0gr. I've been shooting 6.0gr of bullseye with 220 & 240gr Plated bullets without any problem. The other variable in the equation is that these JSP's will be shot from a new gun (S&W 629 6") my older Smith has seen lots of use and was told the barrel had been lapped. Is there going to be more friction in the new gun? Thus making light jacketed loads unsafe? Alternativly I have a bunch of .44 special cases too, but I can't find any data for bullseye with a 240gr JSP only lead bullets.

Thanks,

 

[VenomBallistics]

lowest Ive ever conjured up was 215 grain SWC at 350 FPS.
Given the expense of a jacketed bullet, it seems something of a sin to load them for the low end.
I suppose your could start at 8g and work down keeping an eye on the consistency.

Personally I'd rather run a lighter bullet at around 1100 - 1200 FPS

 

[RyanM]

You're not going to stick a bullet in the barrel with 8 grains. I bet you could get away with 4 grains if you really wanted to.

Just pick a number between 4 and 8, and load a few. Open the cylinder and slide a pencil down the barrel between shots to make sure the bullet didn't stick.

5 grains in .45 LC under a 300 gr jacketed bullet gives 605 fps, to give you a vague idea. So smaller case, lighter bullet, I'd guess you'd also get 600 fps from 4 grains under 240 in a .44 magnum. You're really in no danger of getting anything stuck unless you try to go under 400 fps (with jacketed bullets).

If you want really light loads, you'd need some .430" or so pure lead round balls, with 1.5 grains of powder, maybe even less. Seat the ball way deep in the case, as deep as you can get it. With the right load, tuned to a particular gun, you can get the noise down to about as loud as a cough. These look like they'd be perfect. http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_312&products_id=1369

 

[daroccot]

Yes I know given the expense, etc...

There's more to the story, I just didn't really feel like typing alot. I have some 240gr JSP I pulled from factory ammo (winchester) as I needed some new brass to test out some 300gr w296 catridges I was working up (the local gun shop is out of .44 brass and I live in a small remote town). Now I have these JSP's I want to load light for practice with a new shooter. There is more to the story but these are the relavent facts.

 

[RyanM]

If the gun's stainless and you don't mind a thorough cleanup afterwards, try black powder! Get a pound of fffx and just fill up the cases to the brim, then seat the bullet on top of that. Tried it once with .357 magnum cases and 158 gr JHPs (which were all I had lying around), also for a new shooter. Absolutely the softest-shooting centerfire ever. Very light .38s had noticably more "snap" to them, despite being the about the same velocity.

The black powder rounds also had a distinctive low-pitched "booooom" rather than the sharp "crack" of fast-burning smokeless. Between the report and the big cloud of smoke with each shot, the ammo didn't feel "wimpy" at all, despite the very light recoil. Very fun. Highly recommended.

Just make sure you wipe the front of the cylinder with a damp rag after each cylinder, to keep it from binding. And wash out the brass with soap and water and dry thoroughly, if you plan on loading them again.

 

[daroccot]

I'm looking for 7-800 fps, in going with the lower velocity my primary concern was jacket/bullet separation with the jacket lodged in a barrel and lead flying out. In my own revolver I manly shoot the plated bullets at lower velocities. I just don't want to have an obstructed barrel as I'm still new to reloading (~1000 rounds).

 

[VenomBallistics]

so ... let me see if I have this straight.
1; you pulled these bullets from factory rounds to clear the brass for reloading.
2; now you wish to hand load these pulled bullets in a reduced load for a new shooter
3; you are concerned about potentially blowing the cores out of the jackets in doing so.

3 being the biggie lets try that one first.
Unless in the course of pulling them, you damaged them in some way as to cause concern about core/jacket separation, there is absolutely no reason to give it a second thought.
They, after all, would have likely been fired at much higher velocities and much higher pressures than you intend to.

as for 1 and 2 ... cant say as Ive ever done that.
factory ammo, if acquired for component brass, had always been processed using the high velocity bullet ejection method.

 

[tkcomer]

Correct me it I'm wrong here, but can't you use 44 Special data for the 44 Mag? I shoot cast bullets out of my 44 mag rifle and I download to almost 44 Special specs to prevent leading in my rifle.

 

[cmidkiff]

For soft shooting .44's, I've found that trail boss works well.

I hesitate to use a few grains of a real fast powder in a large case... just seems as if you're asking for a problem. I know, it's quite safe, provided you don't make any mistakes. Just not something I like to do.

 

[Walkalong]

Get some Penn 185 Gr WC bullets and some Red Dot or 700X or Trail Boss.

 

[daroccot]

Well I tried some loads yesterday. Started at 8.0gr then 6.0, 5.0, 4.5, and 4.0 of bullseye. All shot fine, the lightest loads were little more then hi-cups. There wasn't any sign of SEE, so I'm pretty happy, I'll have to get a chrono to see what these are moving at. As long as they are within 1 minite-of-falling plate accuracy that wil be even better.

 

[Jim Watson]

Do be careful about extra light loads with jacketed bullets. You CAN shoot out the core and leave the jacket in the barrel, I have seen it done.

A guy here who did not want to dirty his gun with those nasty old lead bullets loaded some Speer 158 JSPs with the 3.2 gr W231 I use for wadcutters. He shot a while, pronounced himself satisfied... until he cleaned the gun and felt the patch jump through the bulge in the barrel. We dug in the berm and found the core which had jumped the jacket and actually hit the target. We also found the jacket, which had been pushed clear to and through the target by the following shot which bulged the barrel!

 

[RyanM]

That's really no different from sticking a bullet in the barrel, though (other than the minimum safe velocity). It's just the two-part design allows the core to keep moving after the jacket stops.

Read somewhere the safe lower velocity limit is about 300 fps for lead, 400 for jacketed. Lower than that, and you're risking something getting stuck, whether it's the whole bullet or just part.

I see max loads as low as 550 fps with jacketed bullets (.45 LC, 300 gr XTP, 4.8 gr Red Dot, 550 fps through a 7.3" barrel, 12,200 CUP), so 400 fps is probably about right.

Running something through the barrel after each shot is a necessity, if you're experimenting with absolute minimum power loads.

 

[rcmodel]

It is hard to say with any degree of certainty what is the lowest powder charge that insures the bullet will always exit the barrel.

To be 100% sure in every gun, it is the Starting Load listed for the bullet in question.

What works in your gun, may not work in his.

Barrel roughness, barrel/cylinder gap loss, degree of jacket fouling, etc. make what's safe in yours, questionable in his, until proven otherwise.

Regardless, any time you are trying to shoot heavy jacketed bullets at very low, minimum velocity, you are playing with fire.

rcmodel