How long does a shotgun last?

[Pete409]

"And I believe Will Fennell when he says that a 686 Beretta goes 50k loads a year sans burpsnglitches indefinitely."

Some statements have to be taken with a grain of salt. Will is a nice guy and I don't think he would purposely mislead someone, but "indefinitely" is a long time.

The Beretta 686 is a quality built gun, but it is subject to wear just like any other gun. In fact, on the Beretta 600 Series guns, the locking lugs have to be replaced more often than on some similar priced guns (such as a Browning Citori).

The reason for this is that the locking lugs which are round pins tend to wear an oblong recess in their mating holes. It's not a major job to replace these locking pin recesses, but still it is something that has to be done from time to time with frequent shooting.

 

[ArmedBear]

I would call it "misinformed talk". Shooting a heavy load in a Browning A-5 with the gun set on light loads will, at most, cause it to wear out quicker or break some part quicker. In no way is it going to cause the gun to blow up.

It's not misinformed. It's real.

Now granted, this is a REALLY heavy load. An unsafe load. A stupid heavy load, put together by a handloader who was either drunk, stupid, or both. I never said the barrel exploded, either.

However, this same thing does not happen to other guns. More like, "Oh, ****! What was that?!?" when the gun recoils like a cannon.

And it doesn't happen to MY handloads, which I make carefully, and sober.

Misinformed it is not.

Shotguns are proofed high enough that the barrel doesn't blow up; most guns hold together even if there is some damage to the receiver. I'm not too worried if I'm standing next to someone with an 870, BT-99, etc. But I stay away from sloppy reloaders with Auto-5's.

What I said was, a shotgun that is treated well can last a long, long time, but one that is treated sloppily or stupidly can be trashed quickly. I stand by that, as would anyone with knowledge of the things.

 

[Pete409]

Armed Bear,

What you said (in your first post which is what I was responding to) is "Auto-5's that are shot with really heavy loads while set up for really light ones have been known to blow themselves apart when fired. Happened twice at the range where I shoot. Pieces flying, no joke. Injuries to shooters."

There is a difference between a "really heavy load" and an unsafe overload. Also, you said "Pieces flying... Injuries to shooters". That's not a "really heavy load", that's an unsafe overload.

In your second post, you made another incorrect statement, to wit "Shotguns are proofed high enough that the barrel doesn't blow up." The barrel may not blow up EVERY time there is severe gun damage, but they definitely blow up SOMETIMES. I have personally seen guns in which the barrel peeled apart like a banana. Besides, in your first post, you didn't say WHICH pieces went flying.

I stand by my statement that a "really heavy load" doesn't cause guns to blow themselves apart...... even if shot in an A-5 which is set on the light setting.

 

[zinj]

I fail to understand how an Auto-5 is different from any other modern pump or automatic. The vast majority of them share the same locking mechanism (a tilting lug that locks into the barrel extension). What makes an Auto-5 explode when a Remington 1100 won't?

 

[ArmedBear]

An Auto 5 may have the same lug, but the gun works differently. The whole barrel slams backward when it recoils. The barrel has a LOT more momentum than a Benelli's bolt has. The barrel is not held rigidly in the frame like an 1100's. So the Auto 5 blows apart more easily. At the shotgun range, a lot of people shoot reloads, and some of them are sloppy.

In your second post, you made another incorrect statement, to wit

I didn't say that the barrel of a shotgun will never blow up, no matter what you do. I assumed that people know that; of course you know that. Maybe that was a bad assumption, so...

Let me be perfectly clear and state this again for those who want to argue for the sake of argument:

Accidental multiple shots of powder in a handloaded round can blow an Auto 5 apart. The minimum charge it takes to do that will not blow an 870 apart and will not blow a BT-99 apart -- damage the gun, perhaps, but I don't care if a gun next to me is damaged as long as it doesn't throw anything my way. And it may not even cause damage to those guns if you don't do it often. The Auto 5 design includes a barrel that moves freely back and forth in the receiver. It's not a rigid design, and moving parts sure do act differently from rigidly-held steel when overstressed.

While you won't find rounds like that at Wal-Mart, you will find too many of them at some clays ranges. They may be unsafe, but they're not uncommon, at least not as uncommon as they should be.

A double shot of powder in a handloaded round is generally not sufficient to exceed proof pressure of the barrel. Therefore the barrel does not explode. Of course, any barrel CAN explode with enough overpressure. I hope everyone understands that.

Most barrel explosions are caused by barrel obstructions. This, of course, can happen with any shotgun, any charge, any design. It is also possible to blow up a barrel with a heavy load, but that's a whole other story. Some barrels have blown up over the years, to be sure. There have been flawed barrels and barrel designs from major companies, too.

 

[mljdeckard]

A million rds through an 870? I shall make it a life goal to find out.

My dad has two old Winchester '97s, one of which is a gorgeous old 12 ga, which he had restored, and it is is perfect. The other is one inherited from my grandfather, in 16 ga, which was nosed into the mud and discharges, hence it is a homemade sawed off, there is an 1" chip missing from the wood on the pump, and the whole thing could use a working-over by a good gunsmith. I think when I get home, I'll do some digging through the Brownell's catalog for a few parts, and make some appointments to have it running just as pretty and smooth as the 12. (It would be nice to have a 16 around to use.) How many rounds has it fired? There is absolutely no way of knowing, but it still works fine.

 

[Jim Watson]

While any good quality gun will go a long, long time with preventive maintenance and occasional repairs, the London Proof House had - may still have - a Boss double which had fired a documented one million shells with no repairs needed.

 

[rcmodel]

I just cleaned a Model 11 Remington (A-5 Browning in disguise) for a friend last week. It is skeet choked and U.S. marked with "Flaming Bombs" all over it.

In other words, it is probably a WWII airforce shotgun used to train new bomber machine-gun crews on how to hit moving targets.

The gun is at least 65 years old, and has had who knows how many thousands of rounds through it doing WWII training, plus a lot of bird shooting since then.

I could find no excessive parts wear, nothing needed replaced except the recoil spring, and it hadn't blown up with "Pieces flying... Injuries to shooters" yet!
It still works perfectly.

In fact, except for finish wear, and with a new recoil spring, it would be as good as the day it was made.


rcmodel

 

[throdgrain]

I was shooting clays on sunday with a guy with a side by side shotgun muzzle loader. Worked fine too.

Look after your shotgun ,and it will look after you.

Dunno about the cleaning thing you guys are saying. I'd say clean the barrel of any shotgun after any shooting session,like it was a religion.

 

[Shell Shucker]

Action parts wear and guns can be shot to the point of being "loose". Barrels don't normally wear perceivably when shooting lead shot. As for the MILLION round/unrebuilt 870, ect, that's still tight enough that you can fire it w/o fear of a KABOOM......... I call BULL$HIT! Parts wear and 200,000 is a long way from a million, especially without some new parts.

 

[ArmedBear]

rcmodel, nobody ever said the things would fly apart under normal use, even long-term normal use.

What I wrote originally was that a shotgun can last a VERY long time in regular use, but that it could be easily ABused to death.

A BT, Citori or Superposed can be blasted looser than you've probably ever seen one. An 870's steel receiver can be cracked, though again, not everyone has ever seen it. There's no such thing as a shotgun that can't be destroyed by an idiot with overloaded ammo or a real slob. I never said the A5 was alone in this.

Now all of those guns listed -- some of the most durable factory guns past or present -- will last essentially forever if treated with any respect at all and used/maintained as intended. This isn't asking for much.

However, if you're buying a used gun, there are things you should know and look for.

 

[mswestfall]

I read about a third of the posts. So I hope I'm not repeating too much....

I bought a Citori three and a half years ago. People told me then that it would last about 100,000 rounds where a Kreigoff would last 300,000 to 500,000 rounds. These are two break action guns. I believe the comparison is relatively accurate. But the real question is what does it mean when you reach this 100k, 300k number. When they become "off-face", both can be re-faced (the plate of the gun that the firing pins poke thru and the top of the top barrel chamber). This process is relatively inexpensive; especially compared to the cost of a Kreigoff. I love my Citori so I would have it done.

I wore out the bottom firing pin and spring and cocking levers on my Citori after 21,000 rounds. Browning replaced them in less than an hour and a half at The big Trap Shoot two August's ago for $30.00. (Browning does this for so little money for Trap Shooters for obvious reasons.) The gun is as tight now at 30,756 rounds as it was when I bought it. I clean it every time I shoot it and I oil it before each day of shooting.

In some ways semi-autos are different. So are pumps. The bolt is probably one of the more expensive parts to replace. In either gun, you can get a receiver resurfaced. Which I would do to a favored gun. I suspect that a semi-auto will give out long before a pump. Barrels are inexpensively replaced in most modern day sub-$2,000 guns.

The bottom line is that if you like it enough to ware it out you will probably spend the money to rebuild it.

Shoot it. Clean it. Rebuild it. But most of all, enjoy it!

 

[45auto]

Overall, IMHO, shotguns are probably the most reliable, longest lasting firearms you can buy...good ones anyway!

 

[Capstick1]

Another cause of blown up barrels

When I was younger I reloaded my own shotshells for a while and there were a few times that I could've blown up one of my shotguns if myself or my father hadn't been paying attention with their ears. I've found that every once in a while you can fire a shell that may not quite have a full charge of powder. There could be some sticking in the powder charger or static electricity. It still happens though. What usually happens is you'll squeeze the trigger and the sound and recoil might feel "Softer" than normal. Take a minute and physically look down the inside of the barrel for any obstructions. The worst thing you can do is ignore this and try to fire another shell. You might have sent that shot down the barrel but the shot wad may still be stuck inside the barrel. Most shotgun shells have operating pressure of around 13-16000 cup. That may not sound like much compared to a 30-06 which operates at 50000 cup but when you consider how thin the walls are on most shotgun barrels it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that all that pressure going behind a plastic shot wad stuck in a barrel could easily turn the barrel into spaghetti. I've had this happen to me three times in my life and fortunately I was able to identify and remove the barrel obstruction before any additional shots were fired. If I hadn't done this it's possible I could be blind right now from the shrapnel hitting my eyes. This could happen with any shotgun whether you're shooting a pump, semi, O/U, or SxS. This is also one of the reasons why I don't shoot reloads in my shotguns anymore. The quality of the factory ammunition is alot safer and more consistant

 

[Jim Watson]

If you can't load good ammunition, you should stick to factory loads.
I have not stuck a wad in a shotgun or a bullet in a rifle or pistol, so I do not doubt the quality of my work. But I have only been reloading since 1970.

As far as patching up guns, one of out skeet shooters had his Krieghoff tightened up recently. It cost about $450 and they told him it could be kept running forever with that overhaul every several years as required.

 

[ArmedBear]

If you can't load good ammunition, you should stick to factory loads.

True enough.

But how does that wise tidbit help you if the guy next to you doesn't heed it?

I don't shoot reloads in my shotguns anymore.

Single stage reloaders are also a good thing, unless you get the really good quality, expensive progressives. Reloading perfect shells with a precise powder charge every time and no shot on the floor using a Sizemaster, provided you're sober, is easy enough. A cheaper progressive can be a whole different ballgame.

 

[Jim Watson]

If the guy on the next trap stand blows one up so hard that I get fragged, it just isn't my day. I know of no way to guard against that level of incompetence except by staying home. I have no control over anybody's work but my own.

My club had one guy who ruined three guns that I know of, but without hurting himself or anybody else.

Then there was the semi-literate loader who did not think the numbers on a powder can meant anything, if it said "rifle powder" that was good enough for him. No manual, he just filled them up. If they meant him to use less powder, they'd have made the cartridges smaller. He was on his third .300 Win Mag when the dealer realized the problem and would only sell him powder so slow that a case full was not an overload.

 

[Shell Shucker]

If you can't read a reloading manual......... You might be a Redneck! Famous last words of a Redneck, "Hey ya'll, watch this!". KABOOM!!!

 

[RNB65]

There could be some sticking in the powder charger or static electricity.

An anti-static dryer sheet in the powder bottle will prevent powder problems related to static cling. I reloaded shotshells for years with no powder issues.

 

[Shell Shucker]

I think that a dryer sheet IN the bottle would cause problems. I can't imagine that you simply "throw it in". How do you use it?
I've reloaded 10s of thousands of shotshells w/o powder charging problems of any kind (three Sizemasters and a 600jr).

 

[RNB65]

I can't imagine that you simply "throw it in". How do you use it?

Fold in half lengthwise then let it hang down from the plug end of the powder bottle with other end stopping just above where the powder goes out (Trim the width of the sheet to fit. A couple of inches will do.). I let one end of the sheet come out the plug hole in the bottle and tape it down, then insert the red plug. Doesn't interfere with power loading at all and completely solves the static problem.

Here's a description:

http://shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=84615&view=next&sid=01f61e5316fbe46ef8fa26cddb0ae313

 

[Shell Shucker]

Good link, thanks. I've never had a problem in the humid Midwest.

 

[foghornl]

The Browning A-5, and those 'made on the Browning Patent' such as the Rem 11 and "Sportsman" are recoil-operated...the whole bolt and barrel assemblys travel rearward to recock the hammer, extract/eject empty and chamber a fresh shell.

So, if the friction ring/recoil spring assembly is set for light loads, and a steady stream of heavy loads are used, yeah the forend wood cracks, and at some point, the receiver lets go. Seen it done ONCE. NOT pretty...saw the owner of a "Sweet 16" model A-5 sit down and cry....pulled the forend off, set for light loads...was using serious heavy #4 loads for ducks/geese.

When I pointed out the friction ring was set for light loads, he said "Why do I need to change that? I have shot this gun for 8 years without moving it"

Let me say that my reply was . . . . well, WAAAAAYYY below "The Low Road"