how long does it take to wear out a barrel?
- Thread starter mgrych
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Howard Roark
Member
Rifles in .223 I've rebarreled for competition last about 3.209 sec. or about 4000 rounds at 2700 fps.
The longest I've ever seen a .223 barrel go is about 24,000 rounds before bullets started tumbling at 100 yards.
The longest I've ever seen a .223 barrel go is about 24,000 rounds before bullets started tumbling at 100 yards.
jjohnson
Member
It Depends.
Yep, really. How long does it take to wear out a car? A drill press? A washing machine?
You need to give us a more specific question.
"Worn out" means what to you? Gradually increasing group sizes at the range to the point where it's going downhill consistently? Or shot out until it's a smoothbore?
In very broad terms, you will probably never live to see the day when the groups double to what they were when the barrel was new.
Modern barrels (like for .223, they can't be, say, 70 years old....) are made of pretty good steel compared to what they used back in the Civil War. If you bought a bolt action .223 and fired, say, a thousand rounds a year (which is a LOT unless you're a big time prairie dog shooter or into matches) it would still take you years of use before you needed to replace it. IF the bore has been properly cared for, and IF you aren't shooting bullets made out of abrasive grit, the barrel will likely outlive you and your heirs.
Back when varmint rifles and some other hot numbers like the .264 Magnum, 220 Swift were brand new, a lot of the barrels wore out sort of quickly because people were stuffing them with really hot ammo, shooting lots of it, and the barrels weren't always made of the best steel. Some of them developed a bit of erosion and couldn't hold their groups so well after shooting industrial quantities of hot ammo.
Bolt actions don't burn out like autos that get overheated from dumping one 30 round mag after the other until the barrel's too hot to touch. .223 isn't hot enough to quickly erode a barrel as something that launches a bullet past 4000 feet per second.
But, hey, be a bit more specific, and we can be, too then. Okay?
Yep, really. How long does it take to wear out a car? A drill press? A washing machine?
You need to give us a more specific question.
"Worn out" means what to you? Gradually increasing group sizes at the range to the point where it's going downhill consistently? Or shot out until it's a smoothbore?
In very broad terms, you will probably never live to see the day when the groups double to what they were when the barrel was new.
Modern barrels (like for .223, they can't be, say, 70 years old....) are made of pretty good steel compared to what they used back in the Civil War. If you bought a bolt action .223 and fired, say, a thousand rounds a year (which is a LOT unless you're a big time prairie dog shooter or into matches) it would still take you years of use before you needed to replace it. IF the bore has been properly cared for, and IF you aren't shooting bullets made out of abrasive grit, the barrel will likely outlive you and your heirs.
Back when varmint rifles and some other hot numbers like the .264 Magnum, 220 Swift were brand new, a lot of the barrels wore out sort of quickly because people were stuffing them with really hot ammo, shooting lots of it, and the barrels weren't always made of the best steel. Some of them developed a bit of erosion and couldn't hold their groups so well after shooting industrial quantities of hot ammo.
Bolt actions don't burn out like autos that get overheated from dumping one 30 round mag after the other until the barrel's too hot to touch. .223 isn't hot enough to quickly erode a barrel as something that launches a bullet past 4000 feet per second.
But, hey, be a bit more specific, and we can be, too then. Okay?
Historian
Member
I purchased a new Bushmaster Varminter about a year ago and since then have run about 600 rounds/month through it using mostly 55g bullets fired at between 2700 and 3000 fps. I usually fire five shot groups and let the barrel cool before shooting again. I confess that I have shot some thirty round mags through it until the barrel is too hot to touch but I have done this only about a dozen times. Is it possible to make a SWAG about how long it will be before it's time for a new barrel?
Historian
Historian
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I had a friend completely burn out a 6mm Remington 700 barrel in one morning of prairie dog shooting.
He just wouldn't quite long enough for the barrel to cool down. Probably less then 400 rounds total and the first 2" of rifling was toast!
His 1/2 MOA rifle went to a 3 MOA rifle in one morning!
U.S. GI M-16 chrome-lined "combat accuracy" barrel life is many many thousands of rounds.
It all depends on how hot you get the barrel, and what your accuracy expectations are.
rcmodel
He just wouldn't quite long enough for the barrel to cool down. Probably less then 400 rounds total and the first 2" of rifling was toast!
His 1/2 MOA rifle went to a 3 MOA rifle in one morning!
U.S. GI M-16 chrome-lined "combat accuracy" barrel life is many many thousands of rounds.
It all depends on how hot you get the barrel, and what your accuracy expectations are.
rcmodel
ok thanks for the info, i go through about 100 rds a week, but it never gets too hot to touch or anything
It's prolly got a grand total of 1000 rds. through it... I just don't want to finally get my pet load and it sighted in then find out my barrel is going down the toilet and lose my groupings
It's prolly got a grand total of 1000 rds. through it... I just don't want to finally get my pet load and it sighted in then find out my barrel is going down the toilet and lose my groupings
Owen
Moderator Emeritus
mgrych,
if its not getting hot to the touch, you aren't looking for benchrest accuracy, and you clean fastidiously, you should expect 8 to 10 thousand rounds of life.
if its not getting hot to the touch, you aren't looking for benchrest accuracy, and you clean fastidiously, you should expect 8 to 10 thousand rounds of life.
cracked butt
Member
Another measure of barrel life that I've heard used by Highpower shooters is that each shot costs you about 10 cents worth of barrel life. A cheaper barrel might last 2500-3000 rounds where a higher end barrel might go 4000+ rounds before crapping out, which often correlates to the original cost of the barrel.
Jim Watson
Member
I once saw it said that a factory barrel was about $50, bought or made in wholesale quantity. An aftermarket target barrel starts around $300, not installed.
A competitive target shooter may change a .223 barrel at 2500 rounds. It might have life left in it, but he wants to take no chances. A .308 will last longer but not forever.
A friend of mine took the chance on an M1A, and saw a barrel go south from one day to the next. Saturday he was in contention to win, Sunday he was way out of the money. Benched later, the rifle was no longer accurate enough to hold the ten ring. I don't know the round count, but he does and I bet he will not try that again when his new barrel gets worn.
I saw another guy try to stretch a .308 F-T/R from 4600 to 4700 rounds at 1000 yards. It would not stay on the six foot target backer, but he said it was shooting fine the last time out.
A competitive target shooter may change a .223 barrel at 2500 rounds. It might have life left in it, but he wants to take no chances. A .308 will last longer but not forever.
A friend of mine took the chance on an M1A, and saw a barrel go south from one day to the next. Saturday he was in contention to win, Sunday he was way out of the money. Benched later, the rifle was no longer accurate enough to hold the ten ring. I don't know the round count, but he does and I bet he will not try that again when his new barrel gets worn.
I saw another guy try to stretch a .308 F-T/R from 4600 to 4700 rounds at 1000 yards. It would not stay on the six foot target backer, but he said it was shooting fine the last time out.
50 Shooter
member
More then likely you'll burn out the throat of your barrel before burning out the rifling. Some people have the chamber end of the barrel cut off and have a new chamber reamed if the rifling in the barrel is good to go.
Jim Watson
Member
Yes, but you have to have a good idea of the barrel's expected life and keep track of the rounds fired so you can have it set back before it quits hitting. Or so they tell me. What with one thing and another, I have not managed to wear out my barrel.
JimKirk
Member
Cooling tip
When I shoot a rifle for group size or load developmemt, I always carry a little 12v air pump like you blow up an air mattress with.. I stick the nozzle of the pump in the action towards the chamber and let it blow until the barrel cools back down! Cools much faster than letting the barrel cool on its own. I get to shoot more... faster than with out it and I don't worry about heat killing a barrel! You got have a 12 volt supply near ...truck, car, ATV or even just a small motorcycle battery. I don't shoot Pdogs but if I did I think I would carry one of thse air pumps with me to shoot.
Jimmy K
When I shoot a rifle for group size or load developmemt, I always carry a little 12v air pump like you blow up an air mattress with.. I stick the nozzle of the pump in the action towards the chamber and let it blow until the barrel cools back down! Cools much faster than letting the barrel cool on its own. I get to shoot more... faster than with out it and I don't worry about heat killing a barrel! You got have a 12 volt supply near ...truck, car, ATV or even just a small motorcycle battery. I don't shoot Pdogs but if I did I think I would carry one of thse air pumps with me to shoot.
Jimmy K
JimKirk
Member
TMac ...
Know what you're saying!!! So I guess if you have Less than 2 guns to shoot .. What I do is a good Idea! Over the years, I have garnered a name in the neighborhood for being able to make many so called inaccurate rifles shoot! What I find is ..that most of the time it is the shooter rather than the rifle! If you pop 10 rounds right quick over the hood of pickup...your group may not be even close to small. Since I deal mostly with whitetail deer hunters and after a good cleaning and firing a fouling shot or two.. then I shoot(off a good bench rest) one shot each day for 4 days. If they are in too much of a hurry.... I drag the air pump out and shoot enough to see whats going on with the gun. I mean if you shoot more than 4 cold shots...either you got more deer tags than you need or you're a very poor shot.
Jimmy K
Know what you're saying!!! So I guess if you have Less than 2 guns to shoot .. What I do is a good Idea! Over the years, I have garnered a name in the neighborhood for being able to make many so called inaccurate rifles shoot! What I find is ..that most of the time it is the shooter rather than the rifle! If you pop 10 rounds right quick over the hood of pickup...your group may not be even close to small. Since I deal mostly with whitetail deer hunters and after a good cleaning and firing a fouling shot or two.. then I shoot(off a good bench rest) one shot each day for 4 days. If they are in too much of a hurry.... I drag the air pump out and shoot enough to see whats going on with the gun. I mean if you shoot more than 4 cold shots...either you got more deer tags than you need or you're a very poor shot.
Jimmy K
jjohnson
Member
Savage is Okay.
Savage factory barrels are pretty good. Not "match" quality, but pretty good.
Savage has a reputation of being the best "out of the box" accuracy for factory guns. Not everyone shares that opinion, but it's common.
Let's say that "wearing out a barrel" for this conversation means that your favorite load that does 1" groups at 100 yards starts to open up to 1.5" at the same range. Let's say that this happens at around 10,000 rounds. You play with this rifle at the range 20 times a year and shoot 50 rounds each time. That's 10 years worth of shooting.
Lots of us don't shoot 50 rounds 20 times a year. Match shooters certainly do, and prairie dogs shooters DO. As pointed out, you're likely to get throat
erosion before anything, and that can be corrected by shortening the barrel from the breach and recutting the chamber. Savage rifles' system of using a collar at the breach makes this a simple and inexpensive job. So... let's say you have enough to do this only once. 20 years of use? More?
You certainly can wear out a barrel given lots of time or high use rate (PDs or matches) but it'll take you awhile. Don't go figuring it's the same as needing to change the oil in your truck.
Savage factory barrels are pretty good. Not "match" quality, but pretty good.
Savage has a reputation of being the best "out of the box" accuracy for factory guns. Not everyone shares that opinion, but it's common.
Let's say that "wearing out a barrel" for this conversation means that your favorite load that does 1" groups at 100 yards starts to open up to 1.5" at the same range. Let's say that this happens at around 10,000 rounds. You play with this rifle at the range 20 times a year and shoot 50 rounds each time. That's 10 years worth of shooting.
Lots of us don't shoot 50 rounds 20 times a year. Match shooters certainly do, and prairie dogs shooters DO. As pointed out, you're likely to get throat
erosion before anything, and that can be corrected by shortening the barrel from the breach and recutting the chamber. Savage rifles' system of using a collar at the breach makes this a simple and inexpensive job. So... let's say you have enough to do this only once. 20 years of use? More?
You certainly can wear out a barrel given lots of time or high use rate (PDs or matches) but it'll take you awhile. Don't go figuring it's the same as needing to change the oil in your truck.
You get what you pay for in a bbl. Soem cartridges are notorious bbl burners, the 223 is not such a round. As pointed out above how you treat the bbl has a lot to do with the longevity. IRRC there was post that the USMC pulled a bbl off one of their M40's that had 30K of rounds down the tube, and it was still shooting sub MOA!
Again you get what you pay for!
Again you get what you pay for!
I'm a competitive shooter, shooting NRA and CMP High Power. I've shot an AR in 223 for the last 10 years. On the average, I go through 2 barrels a year, and my wife burns another one up.
I've used Kreiger, Shilen, Douglas, WIlson and PacNor barrels primarily.
On the average, I get around 3500 rounds of gilt edged accuracy out of a button rifled barrel, slightly more with a cut rifled barrel like a Kreiger.
I keep pretty meticulous records on each barrel when I install it, just so that a barrel won't "die" on me at an inopportune time, like at the National Championship matches.
When a barrel is new and fresh, I'll use a Stoney Point gauge to find when my long range bullets contact the rifling. During the life of the barrrel, I will periodically use the Stoney Point to keep track of the throat erosion so that I can continually adjust my seating depth to maintain the same "jam" depth into the rifling. I shoot 80 and 90 gr. bullets at 600 yards and beyond and they generally shoot most accurately jammed some particular depth into the rifling. I have found that for every 100 rounds I fire in a .223, the throat advances around .001". Barrels that I use heavier bullets in, primarily 80s and 90s, tend to wear slightly faster than barrels that have less heavy bullets fired in them. At some point in the life of the barrel, you can't keep the bullet in the case and still contact the rifling, but generally, the accuracy has fallen off long before that point. Somewhere around 3500 rounds, the heavy bullets just don't group well at 600, and that barrel is replaced.
Interestingly enough, even though the barrel may no longer perform well with 80 or 90 gr. bullets at long range, they generally still shoot lighter bullets like 69s and 77s very well. Older, "burnt" barrels I keep for 100 and 200 yard practice. Looking at them with a bore scope isn't pretty in the throat area, but they still will shoot under 1 MOA at 200 yards with 69s or 77s.
I can't really agree with the gentleman about the faster twist equating faster wear. My favorite barrels are PacNor 6.5 twist barrels. They stabilize everything from a 52 to a 90 in a .223. It's more a factor of how much powder you are pushing down the bore, and how heavy of a bullet I'm pushing. The one PacNor 6 twist barrel I experimented with wore no faster than any other barrel in .223 that I have had.
Cut rifled barrels like Kreigers, generally will last 500-1000 rounds more than an equivalent button rifled barrel. I suppose that because the cut rifled barrels have deeper grooves, they wear a little slower.
I've used Kreiger, Shilen, Douglas, WIlson and PacNor barrels primarily.
On the average, I get around 3500 rounds of gilt edged accuracy out of a button rifled barrel, slightly more with a cut rifled barrel like a Kreiger.
I keep pretty meticulous records on each barrel when I install it, just so that a barrel won't "die" on me at an inopportune time, like at the National Championship matches.
When a barrel is new and fresh, I'll use a Stoney Point gauge to find when my long range bullets contact the rifling. During the life of the barrrel, I will periodically use the Stoney Point to keep track of the throat erosion so that I can continually adjust my seating depth to maintain the same "jam" depth into the rifling. I shoot 80 and 90 gr. bullets at 600 yards and beyond and they generally shoot most accurately jammed some particular depth into the rifling. I have found that for every 100 rounds I fire in a .223, the throat advances around .001". Barrels that I use heavier bullets in, primarily 80s and 90s, tend to wear slightly faster than barrels that have less heavy bullets fired in them. At some point in the life of the barrel, you can't keep the bullet in the case and still contact the rifling, but generally, the accuracy has fallen off long before that point. Somewhere around 3500 rounds, the heavy bullets just don't group well at 600, and that barrel is replaced.
Interestingly enough, even though the barrel may no longer perform well with 80 or 90 gr. bullets at long range, they generally still shoot lighter bullets like 69s and 77s very well. Older, "burnt" barrels I keep for 100 and 200 yard practice. Looking at them with a bore scope isn't pretty in the throat area, but they still will shoot under 1 MOA at 200 yards with 69s or 77s.
I can't really agree with the gentleman about the faster twist equating faster wear. My favorite barrels are PacNor 6.5 twist barrels. They stabilize everything from a 52 to a 90 in a .223. It's more a factor of how much powder you are pushing down the bore, and how heavy of a bullet I'm pushing. The one PacNor 6 twist barrel I experimented with wore no faster than any other barrel in .223 that I have had.
Cut rifled barrels like Kreigers, generally will last 500-1000 rounds more than an equivalent button rifled barrel. I suppose that because the cut rifled barrels have deeper grooves, they wear a little slower.
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