How long to trust a loaded muzzleloader?

[Bazoo]

My buddy’s cva bobcat hawken style copy has been loaded for two seasons with pyrodex. We shot it some, cleaned it and loaded it and hunted with it. Didn’t get a deer and it’s set for two seasons.

We always take the nipple off and put a few kernels of powder under the it to help ignition when loading for a hunt.

It was lubed with vegetable oil. I mopped as much out as I could before loading it, fired a cap, and loaded loose pyrodex over patched ball.

What are my chances that I will have any problems with it, if I hunt with it this season, without first shooting it.

I hate cleaning it. It isn’t the 20 minutes with hot water others claim. It’s an hour of scrubbing with hot water and dawn.

 

[Captain*kirk]

How important is it you you that you are successful in your hunt, and take the game quick and mercifully?
People spend thousands on hunting licenses, gear, plan their vacation time, spend hours prepping and getting scent free, etc, then use an old charge/load when the hunt is on the line? Not to mention you say nothing about checking your sight-in and function of the rifle...
I think you know the answer in your heart already.

 

[Captain*kirk]

Also, it's a simple matter to pull the charge with a ball screw, if you don't feel like cleaning it. Just sayin'.

 

[paul harm]

Start using black powder as muzzleloaders were intended to use and maybe your clean up won't be a couple of hours. I can clean a SxS shotgun of BP residue in about 10 minutes. One of my rifles would be about the same.Why in heavens name does it take you an hour to clean it ?

 

[AK Hunter]

Mine is loaded & it’s good until I shoot it or the end of ML season whatever comes first.

 

[Bazoo]

How important is it you you that you are successful in your hunt, and take the game quick and mercifully?
People spend thousands on hunting licenses, gear, plan their vacation time, spend hours prepping and getting scent free, etc, then use an old charge/load when the hunt is on the line? Not to mention you say nothing about checking your sight-in and function of the rifle...
I think you know the answer in your heart already.

I’m hunting in the back 40, it doesn’t cost me anything. No license or tags for land owner.

long as the deer drops between where it was hit and the fence line, it’s considered ethical to me.

My question is, will the charge work like it should or will I get a hangfire or misfire. I’m not a muzzleloading enthusiast so I really want to know if the gun is still ready after 2 years.

 

[Bazoo]

We sighted it in and shot a few times to confirm it was hittting POA at 50 yards with 70 grains pyrodex the year previous to its loading. It is loaded with 70 grains, and I loaded it. I’m confident the sights are still on, as it hasn’t seen any abuse, just rested in my gun cabinet.

The trigger is fine, I’m familiar with the workings of the gun and it’s feel. Shots will be right at 50 yards.

I do have some black powder now, and I hear that it cleans up easier.

 

[Captain*kirk]

I’m hunting in the back 40, it doesn’t cost me anything. No license or tags for land owner.

long as the deer drops between where it was hit and the fence line, it’s considered ethical to me.

My question is, will the charge work like it should or will I get a hangfire or misfire. I’m not a muzzleloading enthusiast so I really want to know if the gun is still ready after 2 years.

Why chance it? It's a few pennies worth of powder and a chunk of lead. Pull the charge with your ball screw and pop in a fresh load and eliminate that from the equation. Nobody can guarantee you won't have a hangfire or misfire and it might be on the biggest buck of your life.

 

[Captain*kirk]

Also, Pyrodex DOES go "off" over time. Dump the load and start fresh.

 

[Bazoo]

Start using black powder as muzzleloaders were intended to use and maybe your clean up won't be a couple of hours. I can clean a SxS shotgun of BP residue in about 10 minutes. One of my rifles would be about the same.Why in heavens name does it take you an hour to clean it ?

I’ve tried hot water, and boiling water. Take the barrel off and remove the nipple and plug screw. Put it in a bucket I’d hot water. With ir without dawn, I’ve tried both. Run the rod with a patch up and down the bore to flush with water. Do this 20 minutes and then check it with a patch. Maybe Sean some patches or run the brush a few dozen times. Then flush with water some more. It ain’t clean when checked again. It needs another treatment. It takes an hour to get all I can get out of it. Then oil and reassemble. All in all, an hour.

 

[Bazoo]

I forgot about the ball screw. Thanks. That’s the way to go I think.

I wouldn’t turn down a nice buck, but I’ll likely take a doe.

 

[Captain*kirk]

I forgot about the ball screw. Thanks. That’s the way to go I think.

I wouldn’t turn down a nice buck, but I’ll likely take a doe.

Now you're thinking. Take the field with the confidence you get from a fresh load.

 

[brewer12345]

You can also get a can of compressed air to help blow out all the old powder.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I mopped as much out as I could before loading it, fired a cap, and loaded

Kind of sounds like a recipe for a hang fire or no-fire. All oil must be gone. Especially if you pop a cap. Then it will turn to goo. Before I load a rifle for a hunt, I give it an additional cleaning with alcohol, then clean with dry patches, and let it sit for 24 hours before I load it.

With some rifle bores, the patch will always come out looking dirty...or at least not perfectly clean looking.

With black powder, you should be able to patch-clean it with windex, (the only rifle I have that gets the rubber-ducky treatment is a TC Hawken) dry the bore very well with dry patches, and LIGHTLY lube the bore with whatever you lube your patches with. No "swabbing". Just one lightly lubed patch on a jag. One pass. Then before loading, clean the bore with alcohol, dry patches, and give it an over-night rest. Then load.

If you are going to load right after cleaning you wouldn't put any lube in the bore, but I'd sure give any rifle a day or so between cleaning and loading. Hope that all made sense.

 

[Zygodactyl]

Both black powder and the substitutes are hydroscopic. Leaving it loaded for an extended period increases the chance that it has absorbed moisture from the air. Both black powder and pyrodex are extremely corrosive. Some say pyrodex is worse. I've seen some muzzle loaders that had all the rifling at the breech end below where the bullet sits eaten up by rust. For cleaning I use a swab and a bucket of water like you did. I then clean it with 50/50 ballistol and water with patches and brushes. I get it as clean as I can then switch to hoppes to lift any lead. Most of my rifles are original antiques so it's worth the hour to clean it right.

 

[Patocazador]

If you were shooting 3F black powder instead of Pyrocrap, you would have few problems cleaning every couple of weeks. With the fore-mentioned phony stuff you'd be wise to toss it and thoroughly clean every session.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

...It was lubed with vegetable oil. I mopped as much out as I could before loading it, fired a cap, and loaded loose pyrodex over patched ball...

Are you saying you lubed the barrel?
If there is any significant amount of oil in there I wouldn't trust Pyrodex after setting for 2 years.
I've left actual Black Powder loads in clean barrels for years several times and they always went off with authority.

 

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, I lubed the barrel. Is one not supposed to lube the barrel? How do you keep it from rusting if it's not lubed? My experience is, if you don't lube the barrel, you get rust in a ML.

It's obvious I'm sure, that I didn't grow up using a ML, I learned what I could from the Lyman ML handbook, and online. I have a vague idea of what I'm doing with it. I can safely load it and it'll fire and I did about a 3-4" group at 50 yards when we last shot it. I know to not leave an airspace and to ram it with te same force every time. Sprue up and position the patch the same each time.

My patches, well, my buddies patches, are prelubed in a small baggy. I don't make my own lube or cut my own patches. Though, if I ever get a suitable muzzleloader if my own I will.


I have an inline, but I haven't shot it or worked any loads up. I don't really like it, mostly because the trigger pull is too light for my tastes. Eventually I'll switch to that with real black powder as I have a pound, and give my buddy his back. I don't have a ball starter or a measure or flask. I'm still cobbling all that together. I have a maxi ball mould though, which I'm told is what it likes. But that's another story.

 

[hawg]

Also, Pyrodex DOES go "off" over time. Dump the load and start fresh.

Cap, you know I respect your opinion but I have to disagree on this one. I've got a CVA Hawken that belonged to my ex's stepdad. He loaded it up with 90 grains of Pyrodex and a conical to go deer hunting. He had a heart attack and never went. About nine years later, not long after he died she gave the gun to me. I capped it and one pull of the trigger it went off with the recoil you'd expect.

Bazoo, if it's taking you an hour to clean somethings not right. I take the barrel off of my Hawken and put the breech in a sink full of hot soapy water. I don't use brushes or patches. With the breech in the water I run a bore mop through it a couple of times and it is shiny clean. The mop pulls water through the nipple and pushes it back out with some pressure. As for leaving yours loaded in the way you described you're asking for trouble. I load a blank charge before I go hunting. Just pour the powder in and don't pack it. Just let it dribble down the bore and leave it. Keep the muzzle elevated and fire it. I have never had a misfire or hang fire doing it this way. I realize most people may not have a place they can fire off a blank charge so my advise to those is really clean the bore out with alcohol and let it evaporate before loadin git.

 

[Bazoo]

Cap, you know I respect your opinion but I have to disagree on this one. I've got a CVA Hawken that belonged to my ex's stepdad. He loaded it up with 90 grains of Pyrodex and a conical to go deer hunting. He had a heart attack and never went. About nine years later, not long after he died she gave the gun to me. I capped it and one pull of the trigger it went off with the recoil you'd expect.

Bazoo, if it's taking you an hour to clean somethings not right. I take the barrel off of my Hawken and put the breech in a sink full of hot soapy water. I don't use brushes or patches. With the breech in the water I run a bore mop through it a couple of times and it is shiny clean. The mop pulls water through the nipple and pushes it back out with some pressure. As for leaving yours loaded in the way you described you're asking for trouble. I load a blank charge before I go hunting. Just pour the powder in and don't pack it. Just let it dribble down the bore and leave it. Keep the muzzle elevated and fire it. I have never had a misfire or hang fire doing it this way. I realize most people may not have a place they can fire off a blank charge so my advise to those is really clean the bore out with alcohol and let it evaporate before loadin git.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my query.

Since it does take an hour, what am I doing wrong? I do the water up the bore thing and it doesn't get the bore clean.

It might if I fired only a shot before cleaning. Firing 5-10, and it's an hours job. Black gummy fouling.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Both black powder and the substitutes are hydroscopic. Leaving it loaded for an extended period increases the chance that it has absorbed moisture from the air. Both black powder and pyrodex are extremely corrosive. Some say pyrodex is worse. I've seen some muzzle loaders that had all the rifling at the breech end below where the bullet sits eaten up by rust. For cleaning I use a swab and a bucket of water like you did. I then clean it with 50/50 ballistol and water with patches and brushes. I get it as clean as I can then switch to hoppes to lift any lead. Most of my rifles are original antiques so it's worth the hour to clean it right.

I agree, except on the issue of Black absorbing moisture from the air, we'll agree to disagree on that. Substitutes I don't know. Black powder you can dunk in water, get it wet, and spread it out on a flat surface, and it will dry out. The priming in my pan stays dry all day, even in the rain. So, not much absorbing going on. Especially with powder sealed in a breech, it should be just as good as still in the can. Yeah, that breech area below where the ball sits does not always get cleaned well, and will rust out. I'm one of those odd-balls that enjoy cleaning my rifles, so to me an hour is nothing. But, it can be done faster.

I think that when a main-charge is contaminate, it has absorbed oil or lube, and not moisture. And, I think the flash channel, and nipple are the main causes of miss and hang fires in a percussion gun, not so much the main charge.

Anyhow, it also occurred to me that if you are seating a lubed patch and ball on the powder, the powder will certainly absorb lube from the patch. A dry wool wad, with perhaps a cardboard wad under it, might be a good idea. Powder contaminated with lube from the patch won't cause a miss fire or hang fire, but will reduce the power of the load. Not real noticeable in rifles, (sometimes it is) but very noticeable when you leave a BP revolver loaded for a long time with a lubed wad under the ball.

 

[Bazoo]

I agree, except on the issue of Black absorbing moisture from the air, we'll agree to disagree on that. Substitutes I don't know. Black powder you can dunk in water, get it wet, and spread it out on a flat surface, and it will dry out. The priming in my pan stays dry all day, even in the rain. So, not much absorbing going on. Especially with powder sealed in a breech, it should be just as good as still in the can. Yeah, that breech area below where the ball sits does not always get cleaned well, and will rust out. I'm one of those odd-balls that enjoy cleaning my rifles, so to me an hour is nothing. But, it can be done faster.

I think that when a main-charge is contaminate, it has absorbed oil or lube, and not moisture. And, I think the flash channel, and nipple are the main causes of miss and hang fires in a percussion gun, not so much the main charge.

Anyhow, it also occurred to me that if you are seating a lubed patch and ball on the powder, the powder will certainly absorb lube from the patch. A dry wool wad, with perhaps a cardboard wad under it, might be a good idea. Powder contaminated with lube from the patch won't cause a miss fire or hang fire, but will reduce the power of the load. Not real noticeable in rifles, (sometimes it is) but very noticeable when you leave a BP revolver loaded for a long time with a lubed wad under the ball.

I didn't know that about lube from the patch/wad. Thanks

I don't mind cleaning, If I like the gun. I enjoy cleaning my winchester 94. My buddies ML though is just a way to extend my season. I prefer cartridge guns.

 

[Acorn Mush]

My buddy’s cva bobcat hawken style copy has been loaded for two seasons with pyrodex. We shot it some, cleaned it and loaded it and hunted with it. Didn’t get a deer and it’s set for two seasons.

We always take the nipple off and put a few kernels of powder under the it to help ignition when loading for a hunt.

It was lubed with vegetable oil. I mopped as much out as I could before loading it, fired a cap, and loaded loose pyrodex over patched ball.

Bazoo, if you routinely use vegetable oil as a lube, that may contribute to your cleaning problem since it does not dissolve in water, although the Dawn should make short work of any oily residue. You might have better luck with mink oil as a lube, or a grease-type lube such as Bore Butter.

Regarding your powder, Hodgdon's Triple Seven makes for much easier to cleaning in my limited experience of using BP substitutes. You might think about giving it a try.

At any rate, I hope you can solve the cleaning-time problem, and wish you success in your hunt.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Sea level like San Franciscograd with its fog? Not very long.

High mountains with zero humidity. Next century.

 

[gtrgy888]

I wouldn’t trust a humane shot with a gun loaded for a month. Two years is a big stretch and not worth the potential for a wounded animal running off to suffer. Pull the ball or do some target work and load fresh after a clean. You owe it to your quarry.