How many ever served in actual combat

[KC&97TA]

I think the distinction is whether your target is actively trying to kill you, as you are trying to kill him. e.g., muzzle-to-muzzle shooting. That's when time compresses and your blood cools off.

Regrets? Only for comrades who didn't make it and most of all, for their loved ones.

TC

The hardest thing I've ever done, was tell a Marines wife he died for honorable reasons, on a black top road in Iraq, so far away from California, where life is sunshine and bad orange juice, taken from this world by an IED god forbid she find out the 'rabbit mission', or he was just an arms length away from myself. The whole time wondering if I shouldn't have come to this massive memorial, wondering if being a coward and takeing the day off would have been better, not haveing make-up and a womans tears all over my shoulder. The men who'll tell you the down side, are the ones that have been there.

Been in the Corps for a bit over 6 years now, I'm an Engineer. On the second tour as we speak, but this time around is different, I'm thankfull for that and I'm irritated about being placed with a unit that doesn't leave the wire much.

I was in Iraq from March 8 to Sept 20 2004, was there in Fallujah in April 1 to 13 2004, when they made us come back out of the city, only to make it home and watch it on TV the following November. I was with Regimental Combat Team - ONE. For the most part, I've seen things I wouldn't talk about with anyone in detail, unless they were there and even then under extream restraint, somethings are better left on the battle field. I don't talk to my wife about most of the things I've been through. I've been blown up by 2 IED's and 1 RPG and I've had to close the eyes of two of my own and felt it my personal responsibility to zip the bag shut when the last one was taken away from us. When I got back to the states, I ended up getting Purple Heart licence plates, but I'm asked alot about what happened to me, I walk normal, talk normal, not missing any body parts? Frag, in 6 areas of my body, little bit of nerve damage in my arm, shoulder & leg. Not much, but I was lucky.

I've never claimed to walk the walk or talk the talk, but I have the 1000 yard stare, I have the nightmares, I've seen the working end of an AK-47 from 20' away and yes, murder is the most spiritual thing you can do to a man, you take away all he had or was ever going to have. It's suprizeing, the first several really good fire fights you get into, your ears don't ring, the adrenaline is just pumping too hard.

After several continuous days, it becomes a game, the longest shot, the longest gernade launch, you get board shooting people after a week, you get sick of squad rushes & patrols, you get sick of kicking in doors, blowing things up, you get sick of haveing your butt on the line 24/7 and you just want to call in Artillery on the entire city, or the Air Force to bring a MOAB. After the first few times you've lived up to the Title, you've lived up to "The Mission of a Marine Corps Rifle Squad", then the shooting starts up again and all you're doing is looking for more people to shoot at, mussel flashes, movement, things out of place. But the funny thing is, you miss those times, banged up, bloody, scared, excited, tired beyond words, with a smile on your face and jokeing about everything still, dirrect combat is something sacred and holly, amongst anarchy. I quite thinking of my nightmares as night mares and started to think that they are really were I belong, the perfect vacation, shiny new brass everywere, big bang fire works, air shows and the MRE's tasted so good then.

everyone copes differently with the issue... this took me a while to write, or even to respond.

 

[Berek]

Been there, did that, got the scars and the memories. Can't do anything about the former,trying to forget the latter.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

+1

Still... never mind....

 

[SatCong]

The hardest thing I've ever done, was tell a Marines wife he died for honorable reasons, on a black top road in Iraq, so far away from California, where life is sunshine and bad orange juice, taken from this world by an IED god forbid she find out the 'rabbit mission', or he was just an arms length away from myself. The whole time wondering if I shouldn't have come to this massive memorial, wondering if being a coward and takeing the day off would have been better, not haveing make-up and a womans tears all over my shoulder. The men who'll tell you the down side, are the ones that have been there.

Been in the Corps for a bit over 6 years now, I'm an Engineer. On the second tour as we speak, but this time around is different, I'm thankfull for that and I'm irritated about being placed with a unit that doesn't leave the wire much.

I was in Iraq from March 8 to Sept 20 2004, was there in Fallujah in April 1 to 13 2004, when they made us come back out of the city, only to make it home and watch it on TV the following November. I was with Regimental Combat Team - ONE. For the most part, I've seen things I wouldn't talk about with anyone in detail, unless they were there and even then under extream restraint, somethings are better left on the battle field. I don't talk to my wife about most of the things I've been through. I've been blown up by 2 IED's and 1 RPG and I've had to close the eyes of two of my own and felt it my personal responsibility to zip the bag shut when the last one was taken away from us. When I got back to the states, I ended up getting Purple Heart licence plates, but I'm asked alot about what happened to me, I walk normal, talk normal, not missing any body parts? Frag, in 6 areas of my body, little bit of nerve damage in my arm, shoulder & leg. Not much, but I was lucky.

I've never claimed to walk the walk or talk the talk, but I have the 1000 yard stare, I have the nightmares, I've seen the working end of an AK-47 from 20' away and yes, murder is the most spiritual thing you can do to a man, you take away all he had or was ever going to have. It's suprizeing, the first several really good fire fights you get into, your ears don't ring, the adrenaline is just pumping too hard.

After several continuous days, it becomes a game, the longest shot, the longest gernade launch, you get board shooting people after a week, you get sick of squad rushes & patrols, you get sick of kicking in doors, blowing things up, you get sick of haveing your butt on the line 24/7 and you just want to call in Artillery on the entire city, or the Air Force to bring a MOAB. After the first few times you've lived up to the Title, you've lived up to "The Mission of a Marine Corps Rifle Squad", then the shooting starts up again and all you're doing is looking for more people to shoot at, mussel flashes, movement, things out of place. But the funny thing is, you miss those times, banged up, bloody, scared, excited, tired beyond words, with a smile on your face and jokeing about everything still, dirrect combat is something sacred and holly, amongst anarchy. I quite thinking of my nightmares as night mares and started to think that they are really were I belong, the perfect vacation, shiny new brass everywere, big bang fire works, air shows and the MRE's tasted so good then.
everyone copes differently with the issue... this took me a while to write, or even to respond.

Thankyou for being there. It well get better but you never forget just learn to handle it. Some 38 years later it's like yesterday.

 

[Scarface]

Seen the elephant

Walter, +1

Satcong, haven't heard that in many years

Middy, During the Civil War, having "Seen the elphant" referred to not being able to describe an elephant to someone who had not seen one personally. Like an elephant, war cannot be adequately described to anyone who has not seen it.

946 missions, only walked back twice

Be Well,

Scarface

 

[C.S.Powell]

Semper Fi brother you are not alone KC&97TA

From an old KheSanh "67" 0311/51 Thank you for a job well done. Welcome home to the land of the free, because of the BRAVE.

"SOME PEOPLE SPEND AN ENTIRE LIFETIME WONDERING IF THEY MADE A DIFFERENCE, MARINES DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM".
President Ronald Reagan

Respect and Semper Fi
C.S. Powell

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Middy, During the Civil War, having "Seen the elphant" referred to not being able to describe an elephant to someone who had not seen one personally. Like an elephant, war cannot be adequately described to anyone who has not seen it.

The elephant was a mammoth. In Virginia, a mammoth had been excacated around 1800 -- Jefferson and a few friends paid for digging it up. Having found a dead elephant, they expected Lewis and Clark to find live ones. Later on, it got to be a joke among the Mountain Men, who claimed to have seen the elephant.

People setting out to on the Oregon Trail said they were going to "see the elephant." Some people broke down under the strain, and those people were said to have "seen the elephant."

During the Civil War, people with combat psychosis were said to have "seen the elephant" and eventually it came to mean anyone who saw heavy combat.

 

[Atticus]

I'm a "battle-hardened Marine", but it sometimes brings a tear to my eye
when I see "welcome home" parades and celebrations for our soldiers on
the news. And yes, as self-pitying as it may seem, I wonder why we couldn't have been shown a little appreciation for the sacrifices we made.

Walter, you have my support and appreciation...always did...always will.

The VN war ended when I was 16. Our family had several relatives over there and a ton of acquaintances. I can't say that they talked much about it...but then neither did my Dad (WW11) or Grandpas (WW1). Some things are just better left unsaid I guess. People tended to look for positive things to talk about back then...cause Lord knows the bad was overwhelming. Seems today that people just want to wallow in it.

 

[oneshooter]

Letters

kc&97ta, I have also had to write the letters, I still have copies of them, 20 in all. It was not my assigned duty to write them, I was a E-5, but They were from MY platoon, They were MY Marines, and I felt that I owed that much to those who were left alone.
It still bothers me to this day, I will overcome and survive.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[jaysouth]

From an old KheSanh "67" 0311/51 Thank you for a job well done. Welcome home to the land of the free, because of the BRAVE.

"SOME PEOPLE SPEND AN ENTIRE LIFETIME WONDERING IF THEY MADE A DIFFERENCE, MARINES DON'T HAVE THAT PROBLEM".
President Ronald Reagan

Respect and Semper Fi
C.S. Powell

You folks were the scroungiest looking and smelly bunch I ever did see. I was in the Cav and in the first wave of operation Pegasus when we 'relieved' you folks at Khe Sahn.

I spent a year as a grunt in a parachute infantry company in Viet Nam in 66-67. To avoid going back to the 82d ABN at Ft. Bragg, I extended my tour four times, six months each. The second year I spend in the Intel and Operations section of my battation, then the third year, I was a glorified clerk in An Khe and Tan Son Nhut AFB in Saigon.

As a child, I had heard so many war stories from my father and his brothers about their exploits as infantrymen and paratroopers in WWII, that I concluded that VN was not ever going to amount to much as wars go. Later, it dawned on me that grunts in VN spent more time 'on line' than any unit during the whole of WWII and units suffered many more casualties in VN than in WWII. (1st Cav lost 953 KIA in WWII, over 5,000 KIA in VN. 101st ABN had 1600+ KIA in WWII, 82d ABN had 1500+ KIA in WWII.)

To anyone who will listen or share a drink, I tell incredible tales about heroic amounts of alcohol consumed, prostitutes chased, practical jokes played, incredible black market deals and how I 'got over' on the system using stealth and cunning. Some of my friends comment that some of these stories get better each time I tell them. Except for a couple of eyewittness accounts of combat actions that defy logic or invoke the absurd, I am not comfortable telling just anyone about what I've seen or experienced.

At reunions, with my mates that slept, ate, deficated and bled in the mud and jungle floor, we seldom talk about such things. The emphasis now seems to be on our aging and failing bodies and trying to remember someone's name in a long ago and far off place.

I just spent a month in Germany with my daughter and her husband. He just got back from Iraq. One night after a couple of drinks, I asked "how was it"?
He just shrugged and said "it was O.K.". We exchanged short knowing looks and changed the subject.

Like most veterans of the era, I am disgusted with the professional "vietnam veteran' who is still looking for sympathy or a handout. I have not yet been to the VN memorial in D.C. Despite walking, jogging and driving past it on Constiution Avenue many thousands of times, I have not yet been. Everytime I get the urge to go, I see those bearded losers wearing parts of uniforms with some medals attached to their hats and get over the urge. I fear that someone will associate me with those losers and crybabies. People have been coming back from wars for thousands of years. They shed their uniforms and get on with their lives without looking for pity.

For any veteran who thinks that he had a hard time or a raw deal, I recommend that you real "Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer. This book may not be true word for word or the actual experinces of the author, but it did chronicle the reality that hundreds of thousands of German soldiers suffered on the Eastern Front in WWII.

 

[C.S.Powell]

Jaysouth

Pegasus? Had my ticket punched to the USNH Guam May 9th 67, We were doing Op Beacon Star April and May 67. One question: What The HELL Took You Guys So Long!!!! I'm sure alot of Marines were happy to see you, was Pegasus 68 during the siege. Our little op cost us 160 kia and over 700 wia, it was known as The Hill Fights, 881 north, south and 861 first battle of KheSanh.

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!"
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

Welcome Home and Thanks for the help!
Semper Fi,
C.S.Powell

 

[TrafficMan]

i posted earlier in this thread, but i would like to share a few stories that my grandfather shared with me. He was in a medical outfit, Eurpoean theatre of operations...WWII.

Luckily, my grandad didn't serve in frontline combat, but he did come under fire on more than one occasion.

He told me that him and his buddy were shooting a Grease Gun at tin cans around a "dirt mound" when a German Fighter, which apparently spotted the muzzle flash, started straffing at them. He said he was scared chitless and him and his buddy started running from one side of the mound to the other to escape the attack. Fortunately, AAA got the dude and he bailed out. Grandpa said the Luftwaffe pilot was young, probably in his teens. Grandpa and his buddy ventured off to find the guy and they did. As his buddy held the guy at gunpoint, he stripped him of his (as he puts it) a brand new P-38 pistol. Grandpa brought the pistol back as a trophy, but ended up selling it in the 1950's when he was hard up for money. My dad has memories of shooting the pistol when he was a kid, I really wish it was still in the family. They turned the POW into the MP's.

Story 2
Lieutenant, which he refers to as the dumbest SOB alive, marched him and a group of other soldiers down some RR tracks right into the middle of some entrenched Germans. They started taking heavy machine gun and rifle fire...he said one guy in the group got shot in the foot, but managed to provide cover fire with his M1 Garand so "We could get the hell out there" -- he said the really scary part about that was that he could here Germans talking before the you know what hit the fan. That's all he will elaborate on that one.

that's really all he has told me about the great war...i have asked about other stuff, but he keeps his mouth shut about it. with the exception of a few other funny non combat related stuff. Outside of that, he just said he was scared a lot. I couldn't even imagine.

My good friend Jack was in the Air Cav in vietnam. Two tours total. He has also told me some stuff. I even had the great pleasure of viewing some films he shot over there with a little movie cam. He was wounded in action twice and has shown me the scars (on his back) where he got hit with shrapnel or something. One of the coolest, most humble guys I have ever known.

 

[jaysouth]

Pegasus? Had my ticket punched to the USNH Guam May 9th 67, We were doing Op Beacon Star April and May 67. One question: What The HELL Took You Guys So Long!!!! I'm sure alot of Marines were happy to see you, was Pegasus 68 during the siege. Our little op cost us 160 kia and over 700 wia, it was known as The Hill Fights, 881 north, south and 861 first battle of KheSanh.

"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!"
Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945

Welcome Home and Thanks for the help!
Semper Fi,
C.S.Powell

Operaton Pegasus ENDED the siege of Khe Sahn. The rational behind hanging a regiment of Marines out in a fixed outpost within artillery range of Laos always evaded my mental processes.

Two days after the Cav and its 400 helicopters staged the operation, we were pissed that the NVA ran. We went spoiling for a serious fight and couldnt find anyone to fight after the 2d day. I was the 83(air operations officer) for an infantry battalion. The planning that went into the operation went day and night for 8 weeks. After the initial meedinngs, we dialed the Marines out of the planning. They did not want a relief operation that would appear to rescue the Marines Their mindset was that hey were Marines and could take care of themselves very well without any help from the army. We had every rotary asset in VN diverted to cover our lift of 18,000 troops in two days.

I was on the first wave with two radio operators and a mapboard to set up an advanced command post. We were on an air farce CH-53 based somewhere way down south. About half way, a warning light went off on the Cockpit dash. The AC started a turn away to get back and fix his bird on solid ground. Our OPS officer, a crusty young major went to consult with the AC. The AC was adamant, THIS bird was going home.

Our OPS officer pulled out a .38 and started banging it on the ACs helmet. Apparently this argument got the zoomies attention and convinced him that a little blinking red light was not critical to the mission.

When asked later about the incident, the OPS officer merely said that a chicken???? airfarce zoomie helo driver was not going to deny our unit's 'rendezvous with destiny', a phrase made famous by the 101st CG in WWII.

A week later we were back at our base in Quang Tri. Disappointed that we didnt get to save the USMC in a more spectacular way. A day or two later, a bunch of trucks pulled behing our battalion area and unloaded a battalion of the 26th Marines(the unit on Khe Sahn). Those troops were the smelliest, dirtiest, and begraggled bunch of humans I have ever seen. A couple of days went by, the only supply that the marines were providing these troops was C rations and water. We built a couple of extra latrines and opened our chow line up to them(we normally fed 100 men per day in the rear, this jumped to 500 with the Marines coming as dinner guests).

Our brigade commander felt so sorry for them that he had a shower point built near by and get them clean clothes and new boots. As much as we liked to rag on 'jarheads', we really felt bad that a bunch of guys who had endured six months of daily shelling and meager rations and water were treated like offcasts by their own Marines (five miles away at 3d MARDIV Hq, Marine officers were eating meals off china served by whitecoated mess attendants). After a week, they started doing PT and patrols around the firebase. After another week, they marched off the firebase on an operation looking for their next rendizvous with destiny.

 

[.45-70TC]

Pegasus....

C.S.Powell & jaysouth;

Just seeing that word prompted me to reply. First off....WELCOME HOME, Gents!!! I was a driver with 9th MT Bn. and we referred to Pegasus as 'The Relief of Khe Sahn'. My heart goes out to ALL who were in that 'hole'. I drove the point truck on the convoys from Dong Ha to Camp Carrol and Cam Lo during that Op. Lost a good friend, WIA myself, nite of 4 Apr '68 at Carrol when a round of H&I from a 75 pack howie was lobbed in on us. Anyway, to the thread, NO, came close, pulled a patrol So. of Dong Ha and was assigned as MG'er, spotted a few NVA about 500-700 yds out, Sgt. pulled me up and said 'set a bead'! I thought...'YEAH, RIGHT!!!' One was peein' on a tree, he said 'don't shoot though, we gotta call in and see what to do. Was told to leave 'em and head back. On the way back heard Hueys headed back that way. One nerve wracking moment for me. I was there but still can't imagine what went through you boys minds who did.

Again...........Welcome Home and Semper Fi and to the Boys in and over 'there'...........BLESS YOU ALL!!

3rd Gen/Marine and proud as hell! G'pa started it all in WWI

 

[280PLUS]

A good book for all you Nam vets...

"There I was" Sea Stories of the U.S. Naval Academy Class of 1965. Compiled by Richard Zimmerman

The class of 1965 was the first to graduate into Viet Nam. "Dick" was among them. I think he's got a basement full of these books, or he did at one time anyways. I've helped him whittle the pile down a little over the years.

One thing I learned from the book was that the Academy also trained Marine officers, so there's a few Marine stories in there too. There's a LOT of good stuff in this book.

You can get them directly from him:

Richard Zimmerman
2000 S. Eads #329
Arlington, Va 22202

I think $20 covers the book and shipping

This is one of the best threads I've ever seen and if I didn't do it earlier I want to thank each and every one of you for what you've done for the rest of us.

Incidentally, my reading now has me with Chesty at a little place called Chosin, again I remain in awe of the conditions some have had to contend with when at war and their ability to survive.

 

[SatCong]

The one thing I have found is that a man under very stressful situation well do things that they would never thought they could do. Once in combat big or little you well take that with you for the rest of your life. War is such a waste of people, but if you don't fight to defend our country we are done for!We have a lot a young men & women coming back with your problems, and they well need help and understanding

 

[Walter]

Thanks for the "Welcome Home", and all the kind words, C.S. and All.
It only took me about 30 years to tame the demons I brought home with
me from that war, but I've got them under my bootheel now.

Semper Fi, Brothers!

Walter

 

[jaysouth]

Walter,

I tamed my demons breaking nightsticks and riot batons over maggot infested war protester hippie heads.

Within a year of leaving VN and getting separated, I was a member of MPDC, the D.C. police. I looked forward to anti-war protests. My finest day was may day 71 when the police staged their own riot. There was a large antiwar demo going on all over the city. The word got out that an MPDC officer got killed by some protestors near Dupont circle. This turned out to be erronious. But before that word could get out, MPDC, the Capitol Police and Park Police went on a rampage. Every emergency room was overflowing with beaten war protestors. I watched four officers drag a bunch of hippies out of a VW minivan. They beat the crap out of the occupants and set the van on fire. Newsmen with cameras got beaten and their cameras broken. I saw an LT from another precinct mace three nuns sitting on the ground up near GW hospital. They were sitting on the ground waving signs until they got their sinuses cleaned out.

This changed the whole tenor of the protests. Until then, the hippies and hard corp troublemakers and nhilests could get by with anything. That changed on May Day 71. After that day, it was kick ass and take names. If someone got out of line, they got a beating and trip to Central Cell Block. The black criminals locked up there got a kick out of terrorizing, beating and sodomizing the war protestors who they called punks. Word got out real quick to do anything to keep their lilly while little behinds out of D.C. Jail or central cell block.

There is a misconception to this day that the protests were staged by college students. There were some and it was a socially acceptable thing to do, but the students never got violent like the communists and trotskyites and Students for a Democratic Society.

 

[C.S.Powell]

Jaysouth

Swating a fly with a sledghammer, BRILLIANT!!!!
S.F.
C.S.Powell

 

[GRB]

jaysouth,

Take the following as you will but, please note it is not meant as a commentary on you. It is meant as a friendly observation based upon your recent post above.

You seem as if you possibly are proud that others and maybe even you lost your tempers and then quite possibly violated the law and beat people with no apparent legal justification but just out of anger. I note though, you only to mention you broke nightsticks over heads and do not to mention if you did it with or without justification, legal justification that is.

I am a pretty conservative guy and, I was pretty conservative even in my long hair days when I thought that the returning vets deserved a lot better. I never attended an anti-war protest, I went to church and prayed for those overseas fighting the war, I proudly wore the MIA bracelet that I purchased to support the search for those who were still missing. I flew the American flag. I was not out trying to bring the US down but trying to support her, I was ready to join the military back then if needed (but will admit I was happy the war ended before that became necessary). I went to college and majored in police science anticipating a career as an LEO and; I have spent 26 years plus as an LEO. I addition to all of that I thought Richard M. Nixon was one heck of a darned good president; not quite as good as Ronald W. Reagan but pretty darned good.

I also can say without a doubt that even though I have had to kick some ass in my duties as an LEO, I have never beaten (or even hit just once) anyone without legal justification. While I have been quite happy to have survived and won situations (and celebrated wildly afterward) where physical force was required to win (even where extreme physical force was necessary to survive) I have never thought or told others that beating someone tamed anything, especially 'my demons'. Well maybe it tamed the guy who tried to do me harm. Beating people as described in a post above does not seem to me to be a demon tamer, just an unleashing of the demons. Where do you think those demons went after those beatings were given out? In all likelihood they went right back home to you.

You may have gone through some form of terrible hell in Vietnam to arrive at the point where you see such as taming demons. Yet what you may actually have arrived at was PTSD. It is a normal reaction for people who are truly traumitized by a traumatic experience or multiple traumatic experiences (the trauma causing agent can be quite varied). It is also a normal reaction for the traumatically stressed person to keep looking for the fight, or the stressor throughout many years of their lives after the initial traumatic event(s). This is often brought on by the feeling of helplessness that sufferers feel during the initial traumatic event just as you described not being able to get the bad guys for 2 days in nam in an earlier post. This continuance of the seeking stress usually just feeds the fire - more and more traumas to live with and, the PTSD just keeps on going as the sufferer tries to compensate for the initial feeling of helplessness by doing something they believe is noble and helpful in future stressful siituations. Many who suffer from PTSD go into law enforcement, firefighting, para-medic or other high risk jobs or jobs that bring them into contact with risk, violence or, the after effects of violence. In other words they seek contact with traumatic stressors. While it is true, people who suffer from PTSD often do a lot of good as LEOs or in other high risk professions; their lives and their families often suffer because of it. They not only seek the stress at work but in all aspects of their lives. They many times get an us against them attitude (us being other PTSD sufferers or at least others at work, or in veterans groups, or in boards like this one, with whom they can empathize). I am not saying this is necessarily you, just maybe there was some PTSD in your life at that time, the time you just described above. It maybe something to consider if you are still taming demons today because if untreated, PTSD can literally last a lifetime. Hopefully you are over it if that was the case. if not, then it is failry easy to overcome with some assistance. It is time consuming sometimes but, definitely a mountain that you or anyone can climb with the right guide.

Thanks for your service, welcome home.

best regards,
Glenn B

 

[mcg-doc]

Do foreign wars count?

1986 - 1988 Red Army during the war in Afganistan. No real combat though.

 

[James T Thomas]

the forgotten

I must add to my post, after re-reading the forum.

I had a "combat medic" who must be honored. This man was called on the battlefield, when the bullets were flying, and was afraid. However, he had such courage as to sprint through the firestorm to go to the aid of his wounded friends, and did so, battle after battle. It eventally cost him his life.
I say he was afraid (we all were), but I say courage; because if you are not in fear, then there is no courage involved.

His name was Danny Maudsley. Read my previous post to understand all the battle we experienced. It became evident, that if a man was not killed outright, then his death might ensue from blood loss -unless we could get him "medevaced" quickly. So I suggested to Danny to carry plasma; the clear liquid blood product that can be used reguardless of blood type. It would keep for awhile in the heat. Danny carried several plastic bags of it, and if he could get the needle inserted before the vessels would collapse from no pressure, then you had a chance.

I last saw him, running in front of me to answer some anguished cry for help, the plasma bags streaming out liquid where the bullets had hit his backpack!
The young man was a consciensious objector, and for humor, carried a plastic squirt gun in a holster. It's a heart rendering memory.
Having since then spoken with the last few survivors of my unit, they agree..

You men who are now serving under "live fire" conditions. Please consider,
do not call for the medic, even though the wounded are in pain, and fear, unless it is life or death situation.
Administer the first aid you have been taught, and only require those brave men to risk their lives for just that; to save another life. Nothing else.

Today, when I see a man in uniform, and he is wearing the "Combat Medic's Badge," I render a respectful salute, similar to the C.M.H.
Bravery walking.

Not exactly topical, but these men faced death in the eyes so nobely.

 

[C.S.Powell]

Combat Medic's, Navy Corpmen

J.T., the most unsung hero's of any war/conflict is the Medic/Corpman, when the scream of Medic/Corpman up is made you know a house call is on the way. They are a special breed, courage beyond belief, covering a downed soldier with their own body to try and save a life. Hats off to all Medics and Corpman you deserve a special spot in Heaven.
That was a great remembrance of a commrad and friend, and how true, how true.
Semper Fi,
C.S. Powell

 

[jaysouth]

Mr. Bartley,

Your comments are taken without offense and I appreciate the time that you took to make them.

The first time that I had ever applied stick to skull(during a war protest) was after being hit in the face and having my nose and two fingers broken by a rock an antiwar protestor was wielding. I was told by an AUSA(Asssistant U.S. Attorney, yes it was on tape) that I probably should not have hit him in the head but my restraint was duly noted, not only by not shooting the ??????? myself but restraining a fellow officer from hitting the perp after he went to ground. By the way, Department policy at the time prohibited striking anyone above the shoulders for ANY reason. This was understood by all and observed on the street. The perp was charged with felony assault on an officer and aggrivated assault. He was allowed to plead simple assault and went away with a fine and suspended sentance.

By May Day 71, we had worked several months without a day off and many days did double shifts(no, we did not get overtime). Protesters were emboldened by judges throwing unlawful assembly and participating in riot charges out. One judge ruled that a protester throwing a bottle at officers was 'exercising free speech'.

Yes, frustration level was running high, but morale was good and relations between the department and normal everyday citizens(including street people) was the same as ever. The demonstrators however were disrupting everyone's life. It should be noted that the bulk of the demonstrators were hard core troublemakers and not college students as the media projected.

On May day, when word got around that an officer had been killed by protestors, the cops went on their own riot. As I have thought about this for over 30 years, it is clear in my mind that not a single innnocent bystander got any notice from the police. However, if you were wearing a T shirt that said "off the pigs" or "death to cops" and you needed a haircut and bath, you got hurt if you chose to stand and resist. If you chose to throw a rock or bottle, you got the crap beat out of you. After a couple of hours, we took back the streets and kept them for the duration of the protest days. After that day, if you refused to follow simple instrutions, it was a dose of mace and a trip to central cell block. If you threw a rock or bottle, you got a beating and a trip to central cell block. At that point, what the courts did afterwards was pointless. The lesson was quickly absorbed on the street and the tenor of protest took a civil turn. Up to that time protest leaders with a microphone were exhorting the mob to 'off the pigs'. After May day, the message was, 'do not interfere with the police, they are just doing their job'. The whole debacle could have been avoided in the first place if police leadership and the politicians had simply observed longstanding policy and law and taken a firmer stance when the protests started.

Anyhow, a couple of years later I knew that I was not supposed to be a cop. Not because of protests, but because I did not want to spend the rest of my life in the ghetto dealing with that pathology. I got a degree in accounting and battled the demons of extraordiary loss carryover gains and the subtle nuances of generally accepted accounting principles. Until I moved last year to TN, I was a volunteer at the local VA. I worked several hours every week in the spinal cord injury wing.

 

[Walter]

You may have gone through some form of terrible hell in Vietnam to arrive at the point where you see such as taming demons. Yet what you may actually have arrived at was PTSD. It is a normal reaction for people who are truly traumitized by a traumatic experience or multiple traumatic experiences (the trauma causing agent can be quite varied). It is also a normal reaction for the traumatically stressed person to keep looking for the fight, or the stressor throughout many years of their lives after the initial traumatic event(s). This is often brought on by the feeling of helplessness that sufferers feel during the initial traumatic event just as you described not being able to get the bad guys for 2 days in nam in an earlier post. This continuance of the seeking stress usually just feeds the fire - more and more traumas to live with and, the PTSD just keeps on going as the sufferer tries to compensate for the initial feeling of helplessness by doing something they believe is noble and helpful in future stressful siituations. Many who suffer from PTSD go into law enforcement, firefighting, para-medic or other high risk jobs or jobs that bring them into contact with risk, violence or, the after effects of violence. In other words they seek contact with traumatic stressors. While it is true, people who suffer from PTSD often do a lot of good as LEOs or in other high risk professions; their lives and their families often suffer because of it. They not only seek the stress at work but in all aspects of their lives. They many times get an us against them attitude (us being other PTSD sufferers or at least others at work, or in veterans groups, or in boards like this one, with whom they can empathize). I am not saying this is necessarily you, just maybe there was some PTSD in your life at that time, the time you just described above. It maybe something to consider if you are still taming demons today because if untreated, PTSD can literally last a lifetime. Hopefully you are over it if that was the case. if not, then it is failry easy to overcome with some assistance. It is time consuming sometimes but, definitely a mountain that you or anyone can climb with the right guide.

I am amazed that someone who was not THERE, and therefore has no rational
point of reference, can diagnose a psychiatric disorder and suggest a
method of treatment for symptoms perceived in an internet post.

I believe I have PTSD. It took me about 25 years to come to that realization.
And another five years to figure out how to get it under control. But in my
opinion, I now have my "DEMONS" under control. It doesn't necessarily take
an army of pshrinks and a bundle of cash to clear one's mind. Sometimes
a person can work their own way out of the minefield.

Walter

 

[docgbrown]

Bad memories that won't subside

You've got two different questions here...one asks who has served in actual combat, and another asks if you've looked the enemy in the eye.

I concur with the aforementioned statement in that I believe that you are asking two different questions and perhaps not asking the right questions. After spending over five hours trying to compose a more explanatory reply, I give up. A sufficient reply would be too long, emotionally painful and potentially hazardous to my freedom.

Unfortunately, due to our current political mindset and methods, I should not risk incriminating myself or those that were there with me by divulging too much. I was in a comparatively unique unit. It was a unit that I did not expect to be thrown in to. I never had any training with a unit of this type. Despite many, many years in service, little of what I experienced there I had anticipated. For a long time life in the sand box really sucked. At my pay grade and position I don’t know how I could have done anything significantly different.

My memories still bother me. Although less often, sometimes my dreams are much worse. The face of death can be awful up close. For me it has been worse in hindsight. Every life is precious. Perhaps I was too busy then to feel the pain I feel now. Perhaps the more austere conditions kept me stoic and optimistic. Being a health care provider, it is my job to try to help my patient as best I can. It really sucks when the best thing I can do for someone is to help someone expire. ...I can’t change the past or erase these memories. I don't know if I want to forget.

I have seen our friends, civilians and the enemy like most do not. I have seen a lot of sick, wounded and broken bodies. I've smelt, touched and dealt with death and dying up close, and...Well worse. Almost my entire unit wears the combat action ribbon. I do not. Most of my unit was shot at several times. During most of the time I was there it was my job to select which of our Corpsmen and Marines would be at increased risk for each new evolution.

My base was sniped at daily and mortared at least monthly, but no one shot at me personally, not even when one had a clear shot at me in close range. When this man had the drop on me, from a car pulled next to the civilian one I was in while traveling off base with Iraqis, he smirked instead of killing me. Neither of us said anything. His eyes told me that he knew that he could have killed me without anything I could have done about it. Yet, he let me continue on my way and live. That was the closest I brushed with my death.

I don’t want to go back to Iraq. Since I am currently applying to medical school, it would mess up my educational plans if I returned to Iraq. I might not return to my wife and young children if I go to Iraq again. These things not withstanding, I have volunteered to go back. I can’t explain it. It just is.

I don't know if you count me as one who saw "actual combat" or having "looked the enemy in the eye" in what ever manner you intended. My experiences there sucked then and haunt me now. I have many strong opinions about my experiences but I mostly try not to think about it or them. Unlike before I went, I now avoid emotional movies and realistic war movies or programs. It is amazing what horrible memories something trivial or simple can trigger. I apologize for my inability or unwillingness to include more details but I hope this blurb helps and doesn’t get anyone in trouble.




Semper Fidelis,

“Doc” G. Brown