How much is too much deviation in a powder charge?

[korben88]

Using the Lee Classic Turret with the Lee Auto Disc Powder Measure.
Reloading for .40 s&w with Unique. Auto disc hole #71 I'm getting 5.7-6.2 grains.
I ran about 15 cycles before i began weighing, and re-tared my scale with each charge. Is .5 grains normal deviation, or am I doing something wrong?

Speer manual calls for 6.0 start and 6.7 max

 

[bloominonion]

I will occasionally get a +- 0.2 gn, but usually it is only +-0.1gn using Hodgdon Universal.

 

[Sport45]

I've found Unique to work well in the +/- 0.3 grain range. At least I didn't notice any accuracy difference. You are throwing 5.95gr +/-0.25gr. That wouldn't worry me too much. In fact, I set my measure to throw the correct total for five or six charges instead weighing individual charges.

That said, I have a jug of Universal in the closet. When the Unique is gone I may not buy any more.

 

[dawico]

That is pretty high deviation. I am not familiar with that dispenser, but is the powder bridging or sticking somewhere? Everything must be completely dry for the powder to fall right.

 

[ralph2]

I think Unique just does not meter well. When I finish up the last of my unique I will only use ball powders.

 

[rsrocket1]

Why don't you simply throw a bunch of charges with the ball powder with the lee setup as is? Just weigh each out and see how consistent it is, then put the powder back. If it meters well, you know your winning combination. If it doesn't something else is wrong.

Are you using a good, accurate scale (beam scale hopefully) or one of those cheap imported electronic scales? Are you sure your scale is measuring consistently?

 

[35 Whelen]

A .5 gr. deviation is relative. If it's .5 grs. in a 60 gr. charge, not too big a deal...less than 1%. Your deviation, is a 10%. That's unacceptable to me, with any powder. I use an RCBS Uniflow dispenser, and I use Unique in my 45 ACP. I set it up, double check the charge, then throw 10 charges in cases and check it again. It's never off the 6.0 - 7.0 gr. charge more than .1 grs or so.
Forunately you're loading less than max, so if all stays the same you shouldn't be creating dangerous loads. But I personally wouldn't want to use a dispenser that couldn't hold a charge closer than that.
35W

 

[korben88]

Okay shotgun approach to responses:

What is a good ball powder to try???
I'm using a MTM digital scale... I have the Lee safety scale, but that thing pisses me off. Maybe I'll try some more tomorrow using that too!

 

[BADUNAME37]

Try W296 or H110. Use this ONLY IF THE BOOKS CALL FOR IT!

Be extremely careful to NOT double-charge this stuff, KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

You will notice a lot larger flash and light with these powders! Maximum load in a .357 Magnum out of a Ruger SP101 Snubbie was throwing balls of fire half the size of a small car!

 

[CZ57]

For the .40 try Ramshot Silhouette. It is a spherical (Ball) powder that meters well and an ideal powder for .40 S&W.

 

[wanderinwalker]

If you want to stay with Alliant powders, Power Pistol meters more uniformly than Unique in my experience and is listed pretty close to the same burn rate. It works great in 9mm, so I imagine it would be a suitable .40 S&W powder as well.

Also, Hodgdon Universal might work well. It meters nicely through my LEE Disk kit and burns clean (much cleaner than either Unique or Power Pistol IMO).

That said, I've been using Unique in my cast lead .38 Special loads. With a firm crimp and using a load near the upper-end of the scale, it's accurate and cleaner than Winchester 231 with the same bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

Universal Clays, True Blue, WSF, HS-6, or Power Pistol all meter better and are suited to .40 S&W.

I get +/- .2 with Unique, with an occasional .3 swing, but it shoots well where I use it. Pretty good to very good ES & SD numbers with good accuracy.

 

[243winxb]

Is .5 grains normal deviation,

To high. .3 gr is maximim for me. The measure gets a extra bump against the stop, this helps.

 

[35 Whelen]

Try W296 or H110.

This stuff is ONLY for magnum revolver cartridges such as the .357 (be very careful using it in 357), 41 Mag, 44 Mag, and so on. I use it alot in .410 hunting loads.

I don't think a person should have to tailor a powder to his measure. I fully understand that some powders just meter better than others as I meter everything from the super-fine AA#7 to a vast array of extruded rifle powders. But buy a good measure and it should work reasonably well with any powder.
35W

 

[LiveLife]

In my Pro Auto Disk, Unique charges varied 0.1 - 0.2 gr. Large flake powders like Promo/Red Dot varied up to 0.2 - 0.3 gr, but still produce accuracy good enough for range/plinking rounds.

Reloading for .40 s&w ... What is a good ball powder to try???

I consider less than 0.1 gr variation to be match grade and for me, W231/HP38 (flattened ball powder) throws mostly right on or vary less than 0.1 gr from the Pro Auto Disk. If you are not looking for full power loads and want mild to moderate target/practice load, W231/HP38 provides excellent accuracy even from starting load ranges, especially for the 180 gr bullets.

 

[amlevin]

Sounds high to me. I get +/- .1 gr from my Dillon measure on a 650. I load 9mm and use mostly Power Pistol and HS-6 but both give the same results.

I used to use a Lee press but found that all the plastic parts in the powder measure were real susceptible to Static Electricity. Even here in the "Damp" Pac NW.

 

[Hondo 60]

Wow, that seems to be a pretty high deviation.
I sometimes use the Lee Auto Disc Powder Measure for Titegroup & Universal.
And get +-.1 once in a great while its .2.

For my Dillon powder measure it's Titegroup & AA5.
I get the same results, +-1.

I've never used Unique, so I can't speak to that powder.

I hope you figure this out.

Stay safe my friends!

 

[gamestalker]

I load .40 with Longshot, but I'm also going for higher velocity. Don't know what your wanting. I don't know much about how it meter's in a powder measure other than from a Mec powder bushing, I'm a single stage press loader, and use a balance beam scale for every load.

 

[korben88]

well it seems +- .25 gr. is a bit high, but not in the range of dangerous or out of control.
I'm gonna shoot the 20 I made. and see how they do. They are nowhere near max, the 5.7s may be to light though.

If I don't like the variance, I'll try a different powder. I'm kinda interested in the ramshot true blue or silhouette.

Thanks for the reply's guys.

 

[CZ57]

True Blue is an outstanding powder but it is so fine it will leak in your LEE Auto Disk Powder Measure. Silhouette won't.

 

[Walkalong]

Got a pic of Silhouette? It's on my "why haven't I bought some yet" list. Next PV order for sure.

 

[korben88]

I was thinking true blue because I can get some to try. If someone wants to send me 100 gr. of silhouette that'd be awesome


Update range report: I shot all 20 rounds, alternating with factory reloads I usually shoot, and factory Winchester. 2 rounds factory - 2 rounds reloads. the reloads I did with the cast felt a little warmer than the factory (but not as hot as my HSTs) and the berry's felt right about the same as the factory's.

I didn't have any feeding or cycling issues at all, and saw no pressure issues from the reclaimed brass. As far as I'm concerned using these as practice rounds will not be an issue. My accuracy was a little off (4" groups at 15 yards) but that isn't a fair assessment because of the difference in rounds (2 of each) and I was trying to pay attention to recoil and where my cases landed more than making good shots.
I still think I will try different powders to see if I can get one to meter better, but will still use the unique, at least till it's gone.

 

[TheCracker]

I will occasionally get a +- 0.2 gn, but usually it is only +-0.1gn using Hodgdon Universal.

+1

Try a small flake powder or a ball powder. Universal usually meters exact and rarely get a .1 variation. I've never used unique but have read it doesn't meter as well as others. Btw, universal and unique are right by each other on the burn chart. Universal clays is also a VERY clean burning powder.

 

[CZ57]

Sorry, Walkalong, No Pics of Silhouette but it reminds me of V-V 3N37. Charge weights are usually about .2 grains less in most cases. Very near WSF and HS-6 in burn rate.

 

[Walkalong]

I have some 3N37. Tiny stick powder the size of N310. I like N340 better for an "all around" powder. I'll be buying some Silhouette soon.

N340 meters well and should work well in .40, but I haven't tried it.