How much patch variation makes a difference?

[Smokey Joe]

Shooting .50 cal rifle. Using patched .490" round balls. Had always thought that a patch of 0.015" thickness was correct and had been using patches so labelled. Have gotten XLNT accuracy out to 100 yd with these, and 70 gr. of Goex FFg, and been quite happy.

Patch thickness came up in a discussion with a fellow BP roundball shooter, and I ended up gauging a whole lot of patches. If you want to know what tedium is, try it.

All patches were pre-lubed with wonder lube or equivalent.

Anyhow, the T/C "0.015" pillow ticking patches I'd been using came out to usually about 0.018". Except a few that were visibly thicker, and gauged at about 0.020". And a very few that gauged 0.016". Another package of T/C prepared patches that were labelled 0.018" ran a consistent 0.020".

A package of Remington patches, cotton but not pillow ticking, and labelled 0.015" actually ran 0.013". Likewise a package of identical looking Traditions patches. Had not loaded and shot any of these, just had them in reserve.

Now, the question is, WHAT IS the correct thickness patch for my rifle, and how much thickness variation is allowable? The 0.018's that I thought of as 0.015" have always worked fine. But should I take a caliper or a mike to the store every time I buy patches??? Seems the manufacturers aren't real trustworthy as to the actual thickness of the patches they're selling.

Suggestions? Comments? Am I being too anal?

 

[oneshooter]

My personel feelings, based on 20+ years of shooting PRB, is that the largest ball/patch combo is what will most accurate. That being said, a LOT depends on the rifeling twist, depth, and type. My 50 longrifle with a 1-72, cut rifled, round bottom, Sharon barrel will shoot 2" at 100yds with a .020patch and a .490 ball. Have to run one wet patch followed by one dry patch to be able to reload. Charge is 100gr of Goex ffg, barrel is 42", and ignition is flint. Your rifle may differ.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[Smokey Joe]

Thx, Oneshooter!

Well, Oneshooter, based on yr experience, I'll try the 0.018" patches. As you said, my results may differ, and I'll not blame you. Mebbe I'll also try the .495 balls.

My rifle is a cheap Traditions "Hawken" Fox River Fifty that I picked up @ Gander Mt. at their after Christmas sale one year for $49.95 IIRC. Spent more than that on adjustable sights and gear for it you can be sure! It has a 1-48 twist bbl; supposed to be OK with either sabots, roundballs, or conicals. Have tried a few conicals but no better accuracy than the roundballs, which are cheaper. It'll hold 3" @ 100 yd, POI same at 50 as 100 yd, which I'm satisfied with. It does like real BP better than Pyrodex, so that's what I feed it. (Like Captain Aubrey, I like the smell!)

I follow the T/C Bore Butter-and-hot-water-only regime, and I can shoot at the range for as long as I like w/no fouling problems.

Thx for quick reply.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Shooting .50 cal rifle. Using patched .490" round balls. Had always thought that a patch of 0.015" thickness was correct and had been using patches so labelled. Have gotten XLNT accuracy out to 100 yd with these, and 70 gr. of Goex FFg, and been quite happy.

Remember this, and read this:

Now, the question is, WHAT IS the correct thickness patch for my rifle, and how much thickness variation is allowable? The 0.018's that I thought of as 0.015" have always worked fine. But should I take a caliper or a mike to the store every time I buy patches??? Seems the manufacturers aren't real trustworthy as to the actual thickness of the patches they're selling.

Suggestions? Comments? Am I being too anal?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Now back when there weren't ready-made patches available, we used to go to a fabric store and buy samples of several thicknesses. Fired patches were examined for gas blow-by (evidinced by holes burned in the patches.) Patches that held up and gave good accuracy were what we selected -- and never put a micrometer on any of them.

 

[Dr.Doug]

Smokey Joe-

I retired my Traditions Frontier(?) after about 5000 rounds. It, too, had a 1:48 twist. It had accuracy similar to yours with a PRB and a (measured) .015" patch with Lehigh lube. Mine preferred Pyrodex RS to all other fodder. It shot 385 gr. Hornady Great Plains bullets very well, too. Toward the end, she just wouldn't group any of them anymore. Then she jumped out of the rafters in the garage onto the concrete floor and broke her stock, so I figured she'd given me all she had. (Finding her there was like hearing your best friend has a terminal illness.)

Anyway, I bought a 50 cal Lyman Great Plains to replace her. Night and day difference in the barrel. The .490/.015 load I had been using was nearly loose in the barrel. I tried a variety of patches as well as .495 balls, and finally settled on a .490/.020 with Lehigh lube over 90 gr. 2F black. I tried conicals on a whim and they literally fell down the barrel.

Sorry for the long story.

My point is, keep experimenting. I really like Lehigh lube, but YMMV. I cut my own patches (square), and more than once I've walked into a fabric store with caliper in hand. (If you're male, act confused and a little frightened, the ladies there will take pity on you.) Once I find what my rifle likes, I go back and buy several yards FROM THE SAME BOLT. Since you're into measuring patches anyway, why not seperate them into a few different lots, then head to the range? Testing patches isn't any different that testing other parts of a load.

I like a tight combination; tight enough that the fabric imprints on the ball when you start it. You might try seating a ball, then pulling it to test that idea.

Good shooting. Keep your powder dry!

Doug

 

[oneshooter]

I have also found that the deeper rifeling seems to be able to handle a heavier powder charge with no loss of accuracy. The shallower rifeling seems to "slip" when using heavy charges. The tighter the patch/ball combo in the 1-48 twist the better it will shoot.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[Beartracker]

Vern has it right here and the only way you can tell what size or type patch is best for your gun is to find them after shooting and checking them over....
If it has little tear spots around the edges where the ball set in it then you have burs in your rifleing and no patch will help untel you clean them out.A good way to do that is with valve lapping compond on a patch and shoot several of them, clean the bore and see how the patch comes out after that....The next thing to look for is if the patch is burnt out around the edges of where the ball set. If it is then the patch is to thin and the gasses are going around the ball and patch. If you find the patch in tact and it just has a little brown coloring or light black on the edges then you have a good fit.Sometimes you have to change ball size and start over to get it perfect. It sounds to me like you got it right already and I wouldn't change a thing.
That's the way we did it years ago and it still holds true today.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Thx, all!

Thanks for all the responses! Mebbe I'll just consider this a "not broke" situation, and continue as before!

Sorry to hear abt. Dr. Doug's rifle's misadventure.

Traditions El Cheapo's--what a way to go!