How sensitive are Primers?

[Smokey Joe]

Kirbys

Big JimÑRe: Kirby vacuums; I couldn't say specifically if they run the dirt through a fan. (Not familiar with that brand.) If so, I certainly would NOT use one for sucking up primers, or anything else explosive.

 

[boing]

I wouldn't trust any vac, modern or otherwise, to suck a primer unless I had looked inside it. I've opened a few uprights in the last several years (I need to get out more, I know), and they've all been very primer-unfriendly.

I thought I'd be really clever and use the ol' magnet-on-a-transitor-radio-antenna to get them out of the nooks and crannies they like to roll into, but...they don't stick.

Anyway, be careful with primers, but don't let them scare you away from reloading. If you're concientious enough to handload safely, you can be safe with primers, too.

 

[shu]

good stuff. this thread's a keeper!

 

[Rico567]

I have always taken at face value what I read in my commercial reloading manuals, and have been as careful as possible with primers... and so far, so good.

I use CCI and Winchester. Yes, Federal primers have several reputations, whether merely anecdotal or not I cannot say. These say they are both hotter and more sensitive than the other brands. Since I use auto primer feeds exclusively for pistol and for some rifle calibers, and since Lee SPECIFICALLY states that only CCI or Winchester primers should be used in their auto primer feeds. that's good enough for me. I have always gotten good results with the brands I use, so there is no reason I can see to use Federal.

I try to inspect the primer feeds in my presses regularly when in use, and have no more than one box of primers on the bench (what the feed mechanism will hold when full) at one time, just to be careful. Yeah, there are people who aren't careful, and I've known several who weren't, and they both got away with it. One was practically a textbook example of every bad and hazardous reloading practice you ever heard of- he kept loose primers in glass jars, he kept open coffee mugs of unlabled powder lying around his shop, and the guy smoked like a pile of burning tires during all phases of reloading....and was never scratched, died of heart failure. I almost died of heart failure several times watching him reload, too. You CAN get away with coloring outside the lines....but not forever, and I'd prefer not to tempt fate.

 

[justcoolin05]

How Sensitive Are Primers

So, I was reading this thread to get an idea of the cases where primers have accidentally went off. In reference to some of the questions on how powerful primers are, pretty powerful.

I purposely set of a primer with a nail and hammer outside, due to a bad case I primed. I didn't want to throw a live primer in the garbage and knew no other way to de-prime a live primer; so, I decided to do a little detonation in the backyard to ignite the primer.

For this crazy idea, I picked a thin nail and a jewelers hammer. I set the 45 ACP casing, with a large pistol primer, open mouth on the concrete. I proceeded to line the nail up with the center of the primer. All with safety glasses on, might I add. I preceded to smack the nail with the jewelers hammer. The primer when off, and blew it out the primer pocket and speared it onto the nail. All while, also throwing the nail head back into my index finger.

The noise was equivalent to a firecracker and the concussion was enough to blast to the nail against my finger, and numb my finger. It also blood blistered it and bruised the tip of my finger slightly. It was enough of a concussion to make me think I blew my finger off at first.

All in all, I was lucky the nail didn't fly in my face, and at least I was wearing safety glasses.

So the moral of this story, 1: don repeat my idiotic method of being a homemade EOD unit. And 2: is that primers have more explosive force than one might think.

 

[hdwhit]

How easy is it to accidently [sic] set off a primer?

Not very.

The sensitivity of primers should not be enough of a concern to keep you from embarking upon a long, happy time reloading.

The chemicals in modern primers (generally lead styphnate) are sensitive to hard shocks. Ignoring manufacturing defects, it is safe to say that simply dropping them will not set them off. Stepping on them will generally not set them off (note that the one poster who manged it as a test in response to your question want intending to ignite the primer). Static electricity will generally not set them off (although it can). Primers are shipped by the manufacturer in packaging to prevent accidental detonation and contain one should it occur. Follow the handling instructions on the back of the package or that you can find in any reloading manual and you will be fine.

When you get started, buy a reloading manual and read it thoroughly. Adopt the safety measures it specifies. I recommend you make - and use - a checklist. I've been reloading since the mid-1970's and there are many posters here who have been reloading longer than me without significant mishap. Reloading is perfectly safe and fun if you approach it with a serious mind. Treat it as something to play with when you're halfway through a case of beer and your nickname could become lefty.

 

[SARuger]

Maybe I have been lucky, don't know. I have only been reloading for a few months and I have dropped more than I care to say. I have vacuumed them up. Stepped on them. Seated them hard or wrong. Still the only way I can get them to go off is to put the primed empty case in a gun and pull the trigger with the muzzle in a safe direction.

Its loud inside the house but not as loud as a firecracker in my opinion.

 

[CZ9shooter]

I have never set off a primer unintentionally. I have ignited them outside the case INTENTIONALLY just to see how difficult it really is. It's not terribly tough, but it takes a bit of precision. Primers that get dropped or lost, or whatever, don't worry me at all.

 

[Reloadron]

How sensitive are Primers?

I never give their sensitivity much thought unless I am loading where primer sensitivity is a concern and using less sensitive primers like CCI 34 and 41. What should be of minor concern is how unpredictable primers can be. Over 40 years of hand loading I have had a few go bang before I really wanted hem to and have literally flattened a few sideways that did not go bang. I have on a few occasions actually sheared a primer in half. There is no way to predict how the little buggers will behave under various adverse conditions.

When installed correctly in a primed case the only thing for sure is that some are more sensitive than others to the strike of a firing pin. Until then it is more a matter of how predictable they are. When I was a kid we played a game using .22 LR ammunition. We stood back about 50 feet from a brick wall and one by one using a Wham-O slingshot launched the .22 LR cartridges into a brick wall to see how many would go bang. We picked up the ones that didn't and tried again.

Ron

 

[hdwhit]

SARuger wrote,

I have dropped more than I care to say. I have vacuumed them up. Stepped on them. Seated them hard or wrong. Still the only way I can get them to go off is to put the primed empty case in a gun and pull the trigger

SARuger gives a good list of ways to roughly handle a primer that won't (generally) set it off. Reloadron even mentions cutting one in half without it going off. I'd never heard of that before. But, it does illustrate that what sets primers off is a sudden, sharp impact, like striking one with a hammer, not slowly abusing it with a vacuum or seating plug.

The classic blunder with primers is putting large quantities in a glass or plastic container. The primer compound is an explosive so get a lot of them together in a confined space and you've got a bomb (and probably the nickname "stubby"), but keep them in their original packaging in a cool dry place until you are ready to use them and they are quite safe.

 

[Reefinmike]

So, I was reading this thread to get an idea of the cases where primers have accidentally went off. In reference to some of the questions on how powerful primers are, pretty powerful.

I purposely set of a primer with a nail and hammer outside, due to a bad case I primed. I didn't want to throw a live primer in the garbage and knew no other way to de-prime a live primer; so, I decided to do a little detonation in the backyard to ignite the primer.

For this crazy idea, I picked a thin nail and a jewelers hammer. I set the 45 ACP casing, with a large pistol primer, open mouth on the concrete. I proceeded to line the nail up with the center of the primer. All with safety glasses on, might I add. I preceded to smack the nail with the jewelers hammer. The primer when off, and blew it out the primer pocket and speared it onto the nail. All while, also throwing the nail head back into my index finger.

The noise was equivalent to a firecracker and the concussion was enough to blast to the nail against my finger, and numb my finger. It also blood blistered it and bruised the tip of my finger slightly. It was enough of a concussion to make me think I blew my finger off at first.

All in all, I was lucky the nail didn't fly in my face, and at least I was wearing safety glasses.

So the moral of this story, 1: don repeat my idiotic method of being a homemade EOD unit. And 2: is that primers have more explosive force than one might think.

Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear about your stupid moment- hey, we have them all. When you have a primer sitting in a primer pocket, the explosive force is going to try its best to shoot that primer out of the pocket. When contained in a firearm, the primer will just push back a few thousandths against the breech face. The resulting recoil imparted on the brass will "reseat" that primer flush with the case head upon firing. If you really felt the need to render that primer inert, safest way would be to chamber the brass in your gun and just shoot the primer. If there is nothing wrong with the primer, you can just slowly decap the live primer and reseat it in another case. Decapping live primers is just about as safe as seating them, just dont go slamming your press ram up at full speed and you will be fine. You are lucky that primer didnt shoot out and embed itself in your hand or even worse your eye. Uncontained primer explosions have been known to send the anvil up to an inch into flesh. Wont kill you but you stand a chance of losing an eye.

Not to bust your balls, we all do stupid things and learn from them. as a teenager, I managed to negligently discharge a 22 rifle which was pointed at the concrete about a foot away from my and a couple other people's feet. Muzzle was only inches away from the concrete so it wasn't extremely dangerous, just very very stupid with a risk of minor shrapnel.
Edit: funny thinking, I was 14 when that negligent discharge happened- about the same time this thread was started in 2003

 

[judgedelta]

I may be paranoid, but using a hand-held case primer over the years, I got in the habit of NOT pointing it at my face when seating a primer. I never have set one off (so far).

 

[kerreckt]

It is not easy to set off a primer. They must be hit squarely and sharply. The anvil must be driven forward hard, not pushed. I have never accidentally set one off. That amazes me because I have tried to seat them sideways and backwards. I have crushed the cup because of debris under the primer when trying to seat them. It put a big dent in it but no ignition. That is where the driven forward sharply applies.

 

[sugarmaker]

Ages ago (I was 12...) breaking down corrosive WRA45 30-06 crimped primers I had a number of them go off. Really had to reef on them. Its pretty exciting with an rcbs jr as they fly down the ramp and ricochet at high velocity. I imagine it would be far less exciting on the LNL-AP.

 

[Coop45]

They don't like to be called explosive.

 

[J-Bar]

I'm resurrecting this old thread to add another precaution.

I purchased a carton (brick) of primers at the local gun store today and was hand carrying the box out the front door when I fumbled it. The full carton landed on the sharp edge of the steel plate on the inside of the door which supports the burglar proof steel bars behind the glass. Two primers ignited. No one was hurt. Perhaps some underwear needed to be changed.

The fact that the primers were in their factory packaging prevented a chain reaction. Cleanup and inspection of the spilled primers showed the only two ignited primers had dents in them from falling on the edge of the steel.

As embarrassed as I am about my clumsiness, here is the point I wish to make:

Primers can be set off even when in their factory packaging if circumstances are just right (or wrong!!).

From now on, boxes of primers will be carried from the store in a bag, rather than in hand, to reduce the chances of fumbling.

I have always kept my primers stored in their factory packaging in a desk drawer to protect them until using them in a press. But now I will make sure that the cartons in the drawer are oriented in such a way that the sensitive side of the primers are not vulnerable to anything falling onto them, and I have covered the cartons with a couple of layers of bubble wrap for some extra insurance.

If you are storing your primers on a shelf where they may be knocked off, or where something could fall onto them, please rethink your handling and procedures.

Murphy's Law applies to primers, too.

 

[Reefinmike]

J-bar- Wow, that is embarrassing but it could happen to anyone! I would have never thought they could ignite in the box being dropped from only 2-3 feet. I hope you kept a spare pair of undies in your car.

 

[redfir223]

Can anyone verify the story that a UPS driver threw a case of primers while loading his truck and they exploded and killed him and that's why the packaging was re-designed and the Hazmat fee introduced?

 

[Swampman]

The beater bar of a 1970's Hoover upright vacuum is capable of setting off a CCI Large Pistol Magnum primer after sucking it out of lime green shag carpet.

It can do the same to a Winchester "Wildcat" .22 Long Rifle round.

"...in manufacturing ammunition, primers are usually seated while the priming compound is still moist..."

Priming compound is placed into the primer cups while still moist. The compound is then allowed to dry and sealed into the cup.

One of the reasons primers last so long is the fact that they're sealed. That's what protects them from moisture and oil contamination before they're loaded into a case and have a bullet seated.

Primers are not generally made in the same factories where ammunition is produced.
Even if they were, do you think that they'd make up a fresh batch for every days production of ammo?

 

[hdwhit]

I've been reloading for nearly 40 years.

Other than the ill-advised time when I was 17 and decided to saw off the head of a cartridge that had gotten stuck in an old Lee Loader die with a hacksaw and set off the primer in the process, I have never had a primer go off that I didn't intend to.

Primers activate based on sudden shock, not pressure. You could probably spread primers around the floor and safely dance on them.

By the way, even confined in the Lee die, when my foolishness caused the primer to ignite (and the powder burned), the bullet still only traveled about six, maybe nine, inches.

 

[Walkalong]

Managed to crush these in previously crimped primer pockets that were not prepped well. None went off. I have tapped many live primers out with a decapping rod and a small hammer, none have gone off.

That said, primers have been known to detonate when mishandled, it''s just rare. They are pretty safe to handle if you do subject them to heat, sparks, or sudden shock.