how should one fit a recoil spring in a 1911

[new 1911 user]

Hello Folks,
I need some advice please.
Can someone tell me what is the correct method of installing a new recoil spring onto a guide rod. In other words should the spring when compressed with the spring cap fit completely into the cap?
Is there a correct recoil spring weight for a govt model SVI 9mm pistol?
Or is it tuned to the individual shooters feel?
I find that when I fit a spring into the spring cap the slide hits pretty hard when fired. What is the correct method to be used?
Kindly let me know
thanks and regards
1911 user

 

[wally]

If you buy the correct spring for the gun no fitting should be needed. Its very important that the slide reward motion stops when it hits the frame impact surface instead of stopping short because the spring has compressed to the point of the coils touching.

Mostly see this problem with 3 or 3.5" guns as there are many variations of the way they are setup, or when a Commander (4.25" barrel) spring is put into a 4" bull barrel gun, where it is a tad too long.

I believe 14 lb recoil spring is standard for a 5" barrel 9mm 1911. Its generally safe to go up or down a couple of lbs and see what feels better for you and the ammo you shoot.

HTH
--wally.

 

[new 1911 user]

recoil spring

"If you buy the correct spring for the gun no fitting should be needed. Its very important that the slide reward motion stops when it hits the frame impact surface instead of stopping short because the spring has compressed to the point of the coils touching".

Wally this is what I'm trying to get at. How does one tell if the coils are stopping the slides rearward cycle?

How may coils out side of the spring cap is acceptable? Should the slide be able to move to the slide lock position easily? When one uses a recoil reducer "Springco"the second spring tension makes the slide stiffer to move rearward about a 1/4" before the slide lock grove. Is this normal?
What I'm trying to accomplish is a "soft and reliable" flat shooting gun.

This may be a stupid question but I need to ask it.
If I use a 10Lb wolffe spring and cut say 6 coils off of it is it still a 10lb spring?

Any Ideas o help me arrive at my goal? Kindly let me know. thanks and regards
1911 user

 

[hexidismal]

How does one tell if the coils are stopping the slides rearward cycle?

If the gun is properly cycling and chambering.. then that is not happening.
Really a recoil spring, of whatever power is used, should be one of the most universal easy drop in parts on the gun. It doesn't require modification, and shouldn't be modified. To answer one of your questions, cutting the recoil spring is not something you want to do.

I'm really sort of confused by some of the things your asking though.
Such as "How may coils out side of the spring cap is acceptable?". Huh ?

I've never tried a Springco recoil reducer. In answer to your question though "When one uses a recoil reducer "Springco"the second spring tension makes the slide stiffer to move rearward about a 1/4" before the slide lock grove. Is this normal?", I would think so, yes. Having looked at them, it appears that that is exactly the point of it. It allows the standard recoil spring to do its job up to a certain point where a second support spring adds resistance before the slide hits the frame. So, it makes perfert sense that it would be stiffer at the point the second spring starts its compression.

 

[brentn]

I always leave the spring alone, its a delicate balance that I don't mess with anymore.

There is tons of info here i'm sure along with google about recoil springs and how a stronger/lighter tension affects the gun.

Just a tip, IMO, to those who own a classic 1911 with the standard bushing. I find the EASIEST way to get that bastard in the slide and fitting it back on is to do the following

-Insert barrel into slide with bushing at 1/4 turn. Place the recoil spring guide onto the barrel in its normal position, now insert the spring through the end of the slide and attach it to the guide. Guide the slide onto the frame so that it is at normal battery. Now put on the recoil guide plug onto the end of the spring that is sticking out and push it into the slide. Holding it with your thumb twist the bushing so that it snaps into place.

I used to always just assemble the entire slide with the bushing, plug spring and guide and I would try and hold it with one hand while sliding it onto the frame, only to have the spring pop out all the time.

I suppose have a full length recoil rod would probably make dissasembly/re-assembly easiest?

 

[1911Tuner]

Springs

New 1911 user has asked a legitimate question, and one that adresses a genuine concern. If the spring goes solid before the slide stops on the impact surface, expensive damage can result.

Use a small piece of masking tape on the frame's dust cover/spring tunnel. Remove the recoil spring plug to free the spring, but leave the spring and guide rod in the gun.

Pull the slide full rearward and use a pen to make a witness mark on the tape that aligns with the front edge of the barrel bushing.

Replace the spring plug and pull the slide full rearward again. If the bushing lines up with the witness mark, you're good to go. If the face of the bushing is forward of the mark, you've got coil bind and need to trim the spring.

Trim a half-coil at a time from the open end and repeat the test until the face of the bushing and the mark line up.

 

[new 1911 user]

recoil spring

Well good morning 1911 tuner.
Thank you very much. I'm certainly going to try this method out at the range this weekend.
Again thanks for the advice. Have you any advice on the correct spring weight needed for a 5" barell 9mm? For a soft and flat result.
Let me have your thoughts please.
Thanks

 

[new 1911 user]

recoil spring

"I'm really sort of confused by some of the things your asking though.
Such as "How may coils out side of the spring cap is acceptable?". Huh ?"

I have been told that the best results happen if the entire spring fits into the spring cap when compressed.

But when I do that I find the slide hits ths frame way to hard. Therefore I'm looking for the correct solution.
thanks
new 1911 user

 

[wally]

But when I do that I find the slide hits ths frame way to hard. Therefore I'm looking for the correct solution.

How do you know it hits "too hard"? Too strong a spring will reduce the impact from the slide going back, but will then increase the impact from the slide going forward. The frame has a rather large "impact surface" built in to handle recoil, but going forward its just the link, slide lock lever pin and rather small amount of metal in the frame around the slide lock lever holes that stops forward motion.

Search for 1911Tuner's posts on fitting the EGW large radius firing pin retainer if you are worried about the slide having too much momentum when fired. You could try a stronger hammer spring, but most folks don't really like what it does for the trigger pull.

If you've bought the right recoil spring there should never be any need to cut off a half turn. According to www.gunsprings.com spring weights are rated when compressed to their minimum working length, so if you cut a 16lb spring, it becomes a less than 16lb spring.

--wally.

 

[new 1911 user]

recoil spring

Hey Wally
I know that the slide hits the frame hard for two reasons.
One It recoils violently, and secondly I've broken the legs of a guide rod.
Anyways, Your advice about marking the frame makes sense and I will be trying that out this weekend.
Thanks a million
1911 user

 

[1911Tuner]

Springy

Quote:

>If you've bought the right recoil spring there should never be any need to cut off a half turn.<
***************

Don't believe everything ya read, wally. I saw a nice XSE Commander slide ruined by the owner dropping in a spring that was packaged and labeled specifically for the Colt Commander. Stacked solid and broke the front of the slide before he got to the bottom of the first magazine. Oddly enough, the bushing held, though it warped.

1911user...The spring rating that you want depends on a couple of factors. The power level of your ammunition is the most important. For standard 9mm ammo in the 115-124 grain category and non +p pressure levels, I'd try a 13-pound spring from Wolff, and for standard 115 grain stuff, you can probably get by with a 12-pound spring. Full-powered ammo with heavy bullets in the 147-grain category, and you may want to go to 14 pounds.

 

[wally]

I saw a nice XSE Commander slide ruined by the owner dropping in a spring that was packaged and labeled specifically for the Colt Commander. Stacked solid and broke the front of the slide before he got to the bottom of the first magazine.

If you can prove this, would seem the maker/marketer of the spring should be liable for the repairs. Should be obvious to check for proper fit and function before shooting after any parts replacement "drop in", or not.

Be interesting to know who made/marketed the spring in question.

Was some kind of shock buffer or full length guide rod involved? I know a couple of the full length guide rods have a foot that is thicker enough than standard to easily exceed the thickness of a turn of spring.

--wally.

 

[new 1911 user]

Thanks guys,
Will try the masking tape or marker on the dust cover and let you know how it turns out.
regards
1911 user

 

[wally]

Hmmm...

A 9mm 1911 recoiling violently enough to break the legs of the recoil spring rod? You shooting overloaded reloads? or did you manage to get the rod in rotated 180 degrees along its long axis? The concave cut should sit facing the underside of the barrel.

--wally.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

re:

>Was some kind of shock buffer or full length guide rod involved? I know a couple of the full length guide rods have a foot that is thicker enough than standard to easily exceed the thickness of a turn of spring.<
*************

It had a factory-installed FLGR. The guy told me that the spring was a Wilson 20-pound spring...which means a Wolff 20-pound spring. There wasn't a buffer, but that wouldn't matter anyway. The thickness of the buffer won't cause the coils to go solid. The stacked length of the spring was simply longer than the available space in the spring tunnel with the slide full rearward.

 

[new 1911 user]

Wally,
Just just good old blazer 115 brass and 124 aluminumn.
It was probably a lot of rounds and a 7 lb spring.
But it shot well.

 

[wally]

I'm not familiar with the XSE, Wilson/Wolf Commander springs are for 4.25" Colts and the standard plug and short rod setup. If the XSE is a 4" gun I can verify the Wilson's Commander spring will go solid in a 4" gun. Wolf sells springs for the 4" 1911s, usually as for "Kimber PRO".

A 7 lb spring? what were they shooting before you got it, wooden practice bullets?

--wally.

 

[1911Tuner]

Wolff/Commander

XSE Colt Commanders and Combat Commanders are 4.25-inch guns. Colt doesn't build a 4-inch Commander. The differences are basically cosmetic, but the innards are all Colt Commander. FLGR or standard "stub" type makes no difference, and neither does the thickness of the guide rod flange. The spring was packaged specifically for a Colt Commander...and it stacked solid and busted the slide.

Bottom line: There just ain't no sucha thing as a drop-in part.

 

[wally]

Bottom line: There just ain't no sucha thing as a drop-in part.

No argument there... "Trust but verify" is always good policy.

I didn't know Colt offered FLGR in any but the officers sized guns, but I haven't seen a lot of new Colts for sale around here lately. I've never seen much less handled an XSE.

Broken slide because the coils stacked in less than one magazine of shooting, so much for the superiority of Colt and forged slides

--wally.

 

[1911Tuner]

So Much

Quote:

>Broken slide because the coils stacked in less than one magazine of shooting, so much for the superiority of Colt and forged slides.<
************

Well...It broke at the weakest point adjacent to the bushing's lug raceway.
Sharp corner + thin steel, and it doesn't take much to bust it out. Some parts of the gun were designed to take impact...and some ain't. That area ain't.