How to be a Gunsmith?

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Zombiphobia

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Seeing as how all I know I learned on the farm and in the Army, I haven't got many marketable skills that both serve the public and put food on the table. I love guns, love shooting them, and enjoy working on them. Are classes available(besides the mail-order videos in backs of magazines) to learn the gunsmithing trade or am I gonna have to find a mentor who's willing to do an apprenticeship?

I've checked the local community colleges and tech schools and so far haven't found anything like this available.
 
First hire yourself a lawyer. Or two or three. Take out a huge liability insurance policy. Sign all of your rights away to the BATFE upon acceptance of the license. Then listen to cutomers complain about their wait time and your backlog and how they can buy everything cheaper from your competition. There are schools that you can attend but any real experience only comes from thousands of hours of leaning over a work bench. Still wanna do it? Just kidding. It isn't really a job that's gonna make you much money. People do it only because they love it. I loved it for almost ten years and finally gave it up. It just wasn't paying all of the bills. Think of it more as a hobby that will bring in a little money and eat up all of your spare time.
 
Whatever.

There is a school in Trinidad Colorado. I knew the SF armorers at my last unit, they had two civilian veteran gunsmiths in there and besides the stuff they knew in the military, they both went to this gunsmithing school. VA paid for it all, good thing too because they had to buy several firearms that they had to work on, modify, and build. Revolver, automatics, etc. They bedded stocks, accurizing, how to make obsolete parts, casting, you name it. He showed me a Smith and Wesson revolver he built from scratch. Pretty cool! Other than not having the stamp and being VERY custom, it looked a lot like a real Smith and Wesson, looked like a prototype.

If you go to this school, try getting a job as an SF armorer. It looked like a very fun job with lots of side work doing work on the unit's personal weapons. Good on a resume too or for marketing yourself later.

Most of the stuff they learned was traditional gunsmithing techniques. Most of what they do is combat gear, but then again, not many arms rooms have a mill and lathe setup either. Problem today is that many folks don't employ the services of a gunsmith anymore. Not like back in the day. May be hard finding work, especially because a lot of the guys that DO employ gunsmiths, they already know the good ones and will never take their baby to an unknown. It takes years to build a name, and in this market... I'd think it through and talk to a bunch of gunsmiths and see how they are doing and what they recommend.

Other jobs would be working directly for large manufacturers in their custom shops. There are more jobs than just having a smith shop, which would indeed be the most difficult one to get going these days unless you came out with a line of your own weapons or offered something unique.

Good luck! I was going to do this but ended up going to university instead. I wanted to learn math and physics. Now I know it, don't use it, and don't have a job. What I'm saying is that the worst that can happen is you'll learn something and have some amazing gear in your collection.
 
And be sure and start out with LOTS of money.

The more money you start out with, the longer you can be a gunsmith before you go broke.

rc
 
much thanks Stryker. Mostly what I want to do is custom work/building for a 'paying' hobby.. not main line repairs except for friends and family. I've spent some money on gunsmiths and they are often like auto mechanics... ripping off anyone they can, so I figure it's best to know it myself anyhow. Although I'd never scoff at an opportunity to work for a custom shop as a career.

I have plenty of ideas for modifications to guns to make them 'prettier', more tactically efficient etc.. just need to know HOW to do it without destroying the weapon. And I'd love to build a few from kit as well and have them look and function smoothly, not bubba'd to hell and back and full of hardened super-glue bubbles and tool scuffs or buggered trigger and action jobs.
 
When I had my shop I did a fair amount of gunsmithing. There were local shops but none of them did repairs, or they were so backed up or over priced that I got a good bit of work over three years, and still have some people bring me their guns. Since I don't have a license now what I can do is somewhat restricted (no overnight keepers, receiver modifications, etc).

You do have to have an FFL for gunsmithing, which is an expense and paperwork hassle, as you have to keep a bound book.

I thought it'd be interesting, but in my experience, it wasn't what I was expecting.

Quite a few "My shotguns don't cycle" (clean it once in a blue moon mmmmkay?!), "my AR15 jams all the time" (clean it once in a blue moon, mmmkay?!), etc.

Mostly cleaning. There were a few times I had to hit a lathe, and more than once I had to custom make some parts I couldn't find. (Remington pump action 22 with a snapped firing pin, I fabbed a new one from scratch). Reworked a few AR15 uppers.

One example I remember which turned in to a real pain in the butt, was an AK74 pattern rifle - customer said it would fire one shot, that's it. I was skeptical as AK's are reliable creatures by default. Century had bubbasmithed the receiver together. The magazine latch and front trunion catch ledge weren't lined up. Ended up custom building a new magazine catch / trigger guard assembly from scratch and making a set of 4 modified magazines that ran clean through it.

But mostly, it's a lot of cleaning, replacing springs, cleaning, cleaning, "can you mount my scope with a bore site?", "can you put night sights on my handgun", and a lot more cleaning. :)

I never considered myself a "true gun smith", just got pressed in to it as a byproduct of the shop. It gets you on an intimate level with firearms, which is nice.

For awhile.

I consider true "smiths" the ones who have been doing it for a long time, who have enough parallel experience that they can take a weapon they haven't seen before and
"figure it all out".

Rare are the real smiths, who can cover everything from refinishing, replacing parts, rebarrelling actions, fabricating parts, etc.

More often you'll find people fall in to a specialization - this guy is good at refinishing, this guy knows how to tune revolvers, another guy who knows how to chamber and true bolt guns, this other guy is great at 1911's, or Garands, etc.
 
I don't mind all that except fabricating parts. That part I can see not enjoying.. and BS like mounting scopes and cleaning.. that doesn't count as 'gunsmithing' IMHO, however I really like old guns for some reason so I might find that enjoy making parts for them more than I think I would
 
The problem I have seen through the years is, good high quality guns very seldom break parts.

The guns that break parts, or come in needing parts, are old obsolete cheap guns you can't find parts for.

So, you spend the time to make the part, and charge accordingly. Right?

Then the customer gets all bent cause you charged him more then the gun was worth to fix it!
And tells all his friends how bad you screwed him.

rc
 
i've known quite a few gunsmiths over the years and the only ones i know that aren't broke are the very high end sporting rifle and shotgun smiths but they are generally known as gunmakers.

there are a ton of assemblers and cleaners out there who call themselves smiths
 
I don't know if I ever have seen a gunsmith who became one just to become one.

Most gunsmiths (or armorers) I've met are "pressed in to service" because they happen to know the most about firearms, open a gun shop, and so on. So it either evolves out of a professional need that you're suited to fill the role on, or a personal desire to tinker that ends up enveloping a large variety of weapons and situations.

Red Jacket (Sons of Guns) are pretty freaking good, based on what I've seen on the TV show, but I bet the smithing / building portion followed from and evolved from their dealership. (This is speculation but it's the way it USUALLY works out).

Unless, you've been a machinist, you have to face the fact that your first few builds from kit or scratch are going to be bubbasmithing jobs. :)

It takes a goodly amount of time and a lot of dedication (not to mention equipment) to become a highly skilled, precision machinist or toolmaker.
 
Zombie, I had a dream to become a racing transmission builder when I was in my teens. I walked into the racing trans shop and wouldn't leave til I had a job. The next 4 years I spent working on foreign cars and other non modified garbage. It took me that long to realize that even being in the best racing shop in 3 counties we still had to do the maintenance and bs to keep the doors open. I did get to learn automatic and standard transmissions and how to make the tires skeech, and trans brakes blah blah. If your not ready to work on the factory firearms and clean up after folks, I wouldn't do it. But one thing my old man told me was never take discouagement from someone who failed, find the guy that is doing it well and learn from him. Good luck, I hope you find your nitch.
 
The best gunsmith I know was a machinist by trade for 50 years and gunsmithed on the side as a passion. The things he knows can't be taught in a classroom. It all comes from experience...The worst gunsmith I know went to one of the so-called gunsmithing schools for a year or two and got a paper to hang on the wall in a frame. IMO, that "diploma" is worth less than a place mat at Shoney's. At least you can play games on the back of the placemat. This guy has jacked up nearly as many guns as he has fixed, mine included.
 
There was a point where I thought I wanted to be a gunsmith. I got over it.

I'm an advanced home machinist. What I decided to do was learn what I wanted to learn. I like bolt action rifles. Mostly Mausers. So I learned all I could about them. I got my hands on old (read that as nearly junk) actions and such to practice on. That way when I screwed up and turned a crank handle the wrong way or took too big of a cut I was not out much.

Now that I have more than a few successes under my hat I'm expanding my expertise.

I only work on stuff for myself. This way no honked off customers or ATF/FFL involved etc.

If you are looking for a trade that will feed you become a plumber.
 
been working toward going to the local college and taking the gunsmithing course.trying to get a local job or out weekly(back in by friday afternoon) so i can take the weekend course.this will be mainly for myself(some family too). i like to tinker and also have some ideas,just not enuff extra cash to do a lot of practicing.it's been a long time since i messed with a mill. good luck with your decision!
 
Got a close friend who went to the Colorado school. Opened his own business and did great for about 10 years. The only reason he shut it down was his dad retired from Bell Telephone and opened his own communications business. He offered his son a job tripling his salary.

He was/is a great school trained gunsmith that continued to learn as he worked. If that's your dream ~ go for it. The VA should pay for it. It makes sense, if you want to work on guns, go where they teach you to work on guns. Then keep learning after you graduate.
 
My local smith grew up in the business - his dad was a gunsmith and he started in his dad's shop at the age of 6. He's retired now, in his early 80's or so and only takes enough work if he feels like it.

he had to completely redo and make parts for my Savage SxS, and did a wonderful job. He has all of his dad's machines - Chicago made for the most part and an inventory of parts and stocks for old guns that would make Numrich jealous.

Guys like him are hard to find and a God-send when you do find him.

Remember, OP - all of the machines and tools will NOT be cheap, nor will insurance, utilities, licenses, etc.

The FIRST thing you need to do is sit down with a CPA and figure out how much it is going to cost you to enter this business and have him lay out a long-term financial plan
 
Buying one machine and the tooling will run multiple thousands of dollars. That's just one machine. Not to mention (what has been mentioned already) insurance, light bill, ATF fees etc. etc. What has been said about good gunsmiths were longtime machinists in there previous vocation couldn't be any truer. You want a good gunsmith? Go find a good machinist. I'm not talking about these clowns on TV who fire up the Oxy/Acetylene torch and take it to the ten thousandth Saiga, or grind away on a 1919 with a bench grinder. That is not gunsmithing. That is TV. They would be better off making go carts.
 
The problem I have seen through the years is, good high quality guns very seldom break parts.

The guns that break parts, or come in needing parts, are old obsolete cheap guns you can't find parts for.

So, you spend the time to make the part, and charge accordingly. Right?

Then the customer gets all bent cause you charged him more then the gun was worth to fix it!
And tells all his friends how bad you screwed him.

rc
Click to expand...

rc offers pearls of wisdom, as usual. :)
 
I have been doing gunsmithing for 46 years.
I have been doing photography for 53 years.
I have been playing the guitar for 43 years.
I have never been paid, I'm just not good enough.
There must be too much amateur pressure on the market.

But at engineering, they keep calling and asking how much money I would want to figure something out.

And my wife has me doing janitor work. That is the man's way of describing housework.

What does it all mean?
Get a real job, and with the money you can buy a lathe, mill, TIG welder, and a house to keep them out of the rain. Then you can do pro bono gunsmithing for the neighbors.
 
Best way to make small fortune as a gunsmith? Start out with LARGE fortune!:evil:
Truth is, NO career training is a guaranteed ticket to your lifelong career path. Are there enough 'smiths to go around right now? I guess. Is there room for another GOOD one? ABSOLUTELY! With the work skills & ethic I've observed in the market lately, here's my advice. Be the kind of MAN & show the kind of CHARACTER that people don't believe exists anymore. Be honest & stout-hearted. Be tolerant of the weak & intolerant of bullies. Life your life as an open book that you'd want your Mom & kids to read. Be a quality man & you'll attract a quality life. Then do whatever you want for a living. You'll do fine, I promise.
 
Stuff like mounting scopes and cleaning may be BS but it is the bread and butter of many gunsmith shops. Sure you can wait around for someone to have you make a custom double for $100,000, but if you hold your breath you will turn a nice shade of blue.

I may be playing the devil's advocate here, but not many gunsmiths can afford to be gun snobs and take only high price work on high price guns.

Jim
 
if your still young enough get a job at a machine shop to get experience on a mill & a lathe try to find one that specializes in plastics because you'll also learn tool grinding.
 
My best advice would be to lie down and let the mood pass.

I have a shop that I run in the evenings, I build custom rifles (bolt guns) and do some smithing.
You will go broke real quick doing repairs.

Buying a lathe and mill will be the cheapest part, its buying all the "stuff" you need to go with them will cost you a fortune. Think along the lines of easily sinking a couple of grand into calipers, depth mics, test indicators, dial indicators, and tooling bits just to get you started.

Diffently not worth the cost just to do stuff for yourself. I currently have about 60 reamers and go/no go guages. To put that in other terms, thats about 10 grand tied up in reamers alone.

To top it all off, you will have to deal with all the headaches and papper work that comes along with having your FFL's. If you do get decent at it and plenty of work coming in then you will not have time to do any work for yourself. People always laugh when I tell them I only own 3 rifles that I built, the rest are factory. I dont have time to build myself a rifle.

I dont mean to come off negative, I just want you to understand what you are thinking of getting into.

I have made alot of great friends due to people coming by the shop but I also dont have anytime to do what I want to do. I couldnt begin to tell you what comes on the TV between 5:00 pm and 9:00 pm during the week. Im never sitting in front of the TV, always in the shop working.

Good luck on your decision.
 
I am a graduate of Trinidad State's Gunsmithing School and I learned quite a bit there.
The instructors were very knowledgeable and helpful and I was able to parlay the expirence into a VERY successfull career as a Tool& Die maker.
Quite often in fact I reached back and used a Trinidad learned bit of info to get me out of a sticky situation in the toolroom.
Gunsmithing?
I help out in a small local shop occasionally or do a job for a friend or two.
 
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