How to break the bond of Acraglas Gel?

[David Sinko]

Apparently I used a little too much Brownell's Acraglas Gel to fit a laminated forend to my Savage 99E. I think the problem is it squished up over the centerline of the barrel and I did not do a good enough job of wiping off the excess. The forend is now stuck to the rifle and I can not get it off. A Brownell's tech suggested putting it in the freezer overnight so the expanding and contracting could cause the bond to break. That didn't work. I did put a lot of release agent on the steel so I'm pretty sure it's not bonded to the metal. Is there any way to defeat this stuff or do I now have a forend that is permanently attached to my rifle?

Dave Sinko

 

[Fleet]

Send the barrel off for cryo treating?

 

[Red Cent]

I use it to strip stocks and grips. Have not tried it on epoxy. That stuff is really strong. All warn you to wear gloves. I generally don't until I used Jasco. That stuff burns very quick.

http://www.jasco-help.com/

 

[W.E.G.]

Beat on it with a rubber mallet until it gives.

The "release agent" should let it release.

 

[brickeyee]

Cold or heat.

The slight change in size will break it free.

 

[David Sinko]

My concern is that this stuff is wrapped around something and it will simply not "break free." I tried the rubber mallet before and after the freezer treatment and it didn't work. Either there's too much gel up over the barrel or possibly around the boss that secures the forend to the barrel. I suspect it's up over the barrel. Is there any chemical that will dissolve Acraglas Gel but not destroy the bluing? I have a feeling that if I can dissolve the excess gel that is visible above the wood I will be able to break the forend free.

If nothing works my next test will be to take the rifle to the range and see how it shoots with the forend permanently attached. If there are no fliers I guess I can live with it. I have no intention of ever disassembling the rotary magazine of a Savage 99 unless it's a dire emergency.

Dave Sinko

 

[rcmodel]

There is no solvent that will dissolve hardened epoxy.
If all else failed, including freezing and beating, the only way you can break the bond is with heat.

Use either a heat gun or propane torch to heat the barrel smoking hot until the epoxy softens enough to get ot out.

rc

 

[natman]

I wouldn't heat the barrel, at least not enough to melt epoxy. If you applied release agent properly and you've frozen it, any bond between metal and epoxy is already broken. Only the epoxy that's above the wood is holding it in. I'd do a thorough job of taping the barrel, put the gun in a vise and chip off the extra epoxy with gentle taps on a chisel.

Take your time.

 

[Jim Watson]

If you got it over the curvature of the barrel, locking it in like a dovetail, it is mechanically retained and will have to be mechanically removed.
I'd call Brownells and ask how much heat would be required, whether it would endanger the temper of the steel or not. If so, I would start cutting.

 

[Red Cent]

JASCO
"Premium Paint & Epoxy Remover is an extremely strong stripper that EFFECTIVELY REMOVES paint, varnish, lacquer, shellac, EPOXY, urethane, latex or any synthetic coating. It can be used on wood, metal, concrete and masonry."

Can't speak to the bluing. It will turn the old Micro Bed (which is an EPOXY) to putty.

 

[David Sinko]

The JASCO looks like it's worth a try. I'm pretty sure I can see the problem epoxy, and if that's the case then this solvent should be able to defeat it if it works as advertised. Any thoughts on how this will affect the bluing? The metal finish is a well worn matte bluing that has been applied about 20 years ago. Obviously the gun has no collector value but it is a great shooter.

Dave Sinko

 

[dprice3844444]

ooooops

 

[Slamfire]

Epoxies are thermoset plastics. There are two sort of plastics, thermo plastic and themoset. Once a thermoset plastic has cured it will not dissolve. You can only break it down through mechanical means or destroy it through burning. Tires are thermoset plastics and disposing of those things is a mess.

The next time you bed an action, coat every piece of metal with Johnson Paste wax. Epoxy does not adhere well to wax.

And while the epoxy has the consistency of taffy, cut it, pry it, off metal/wood you do not want locked into the stock.

Maybe dry ice will cool it down enough that you can shatter it.

I would not use heat, that's for sure.

Just shoot the rifle, if it shoots good, let time break it loose.

 

[35 Whelen]

If you use JASCO, be advised that it WILL remove the finish from the wooden forearm. Why don't you e-mail Brownell's and see if they have a solution?

35W

 

[rcmodel]

Heat the freeken barrel like I said in post #7.
Thats how we got glassed in National Match M-14's out of the old stocks at 5th. Army AMU.

I'm not talking about red hot, or even hot enough to have any effect on the tempering.

250 -300 degrees and it will let go.

Thats why we can't use normal epoxys like Acraglas to glue car mufflers on.

rc

 

[David Sinko]

Right now the forearm is colored laminated wood with no finish yet applied. Frankly I'm more concerned about the finish of the metal than the wood.

I'll buy some JASCO and try it on some test Acraglas. I think I still have a small piece of the laminated wood so I can see how it reacts to that too. I guess I can put a dab on some bluing that will be covered by the stock and see what happens there too.

I took the gun to the range with some odd ammo I have lying around. It seems to want to shoot OK but it was a foot high at 100 yards. I'll have to load some more of its favorite loads and see what happens.

Dave Sinko

 

[brickeyee]

There is no solvent that will dissolve hardened epoxy.

Technically correct.
It does not "dissolve hardened epoxy" by putting it into solution.

Once a thermoset plastic has cured it will not dissolve. You can only break it down through mechanical means or destroy it through burning.

Or chemically breaking down the material.
MEK will destroy cured epoxy.

Warming it speeds things up (be very careful, MEK has a flammable range that extends up to about 10% vapor concentration).

You are technically not "dissolving" the epoxy, but breaking it down.

MEK wil not harm bluing, but will damage just about any finish on the stock.

 

[Blue68f100]

If your going to use heat get some temperature wax crayons, at around 300F-350F. These are available from welding supply houses. These melt when you reach that temp. As long as you say below 450F you will not impact the barrels tempering. Actually I think your good till around 600F but play it safe. Just go slow with a heat gun.

Epoxy can be removed with the right stuff. I use to spray epoxy coatings used in commercial applications. We had a few employees that at times would not clean the guns after use and would set over the weekend. Instead of throwing out $350-$500 paint guns I discovered that Chemtool Carburetor Vat would desolve it in several days would not harm metals. I have not seen this cleaner in many years now. Pretty sure it has been reformulated to meet current EPA requirements. Not sure I would use it in your case due to size.

MEK will soften most epoxies if left on long enough. But since its highly flammable be careful. No heat or open flame when you use this stuff.

 

[brickeyee]

MEK will soften most epoxies if left on long enough. But since its highly flammable be careful. No heat or open flame when you use this stuff.

It gets all of them with enough time and warming.

We used to remove potting on electronics to reverse engineer them.

If you waited to long even the printed circuit boards turned into fiberglass mats and copper 'wires.'

Gentle electric heating works well.

 

[mbonner]

I was under the impression that putting the gun in the freezer overnight would do the trick, it has done for me a couple time. I soon learned not to use the Brownell's release agent, but floor wax, no more stuck guns. I use electical tape ahead of the bedding area as well, to float the barrel. If the epoxy has flown over thr forend and trapped the barrel, well you should have used a sharpened popsicle stick to remove it while it was still plastic.
Mike

 

[Slamfire]

MEK will destroy cured epoxy.

Never tried it, but I will experiment and see how it goes. This would be great if it works.

 

[idoono]

Just do what RC says. I believe the man knows.

idoono

 

[hoghunting]

Just do what RC says. I believe the man knows.

Completely agree as rc is very knowledgeable, but it seems arguing about it is much easier.

 

[David Sinko]

OK, I will try heating it up first. As this is a laminated stock, is there any chance that the stock can de-laminate? I was also thinking that any solvent that is strong enough to soften the Acraglas can also de-laminate the stock.

Dave Sinko

 

[natman]

I'd like to make sure it's clear to everyone realizes that the OP is NOT just trying to get the epoxy to release from the metal.

1) He claims to have used release agent
2) He's already frozen it
3) He says explicitly that the barrel is mechanically locked because extra epoxy has flowed over the horizontal centerline of the barrel, locking it in place.

While you may be able to get epoxy to release with a reasonable amount of heat, I think he will have to apply a heck of a lot of heat in order to get the epoxy to melt.

Some method of physically removing the epoxy is called for.