How to ship a gun?

[AndrewTB]

Ok. So im switching from my .45 to a 9mm and the only offers ive gotten are for people who want it shipped. So seeing how im not an FFL what would be my best bet at doing that (shipping) legally? Do I call their FFL and request a copy of their license etc.....?

If anyone could help please let me know asap! Thanks!

 

[cane]

The buyer is rersponsible for providing you with a copy, either faxed or by mail, of the receiving dealers FFL. The easiest and maybe cheapest way is to take the pistol, and copy of the FFL to your local dealer and have him ship it via USPS.

 

[SIOP]

All you need is the receiving FFL's license number. Then you check the validity, address, etc. against ATF's EzCheck. Only other licensees are required to physically have a copy of the receiving FFL's license. Make sure the receiving FFL will accept shipments from nonlicensees. You do not need to go through an FFL to ship a handgun to a licensee. Just trot on down to FedEx or UPS and ship it. The rub here is that they may want to see a copy of the other guy's FFL. You must tell them that it is a handgun when you ship it and it has to go overnight. So, all that being said, it might be easier and cheaper to just pay a local FFL to ship it USPS for you. FFLs can use USPS for handguns, nonlicensees cannot.

 

[45Broomhandle]

MAILING GUNS

Delted - was accidentally sent BEFORE final draft was completed - see my next posting.

 

[45Broomhandle]

MAILING GUNS FOR C&R HOLDERS

NOTE TO SIOP - I know comments here were directed to non-licensees, but I want to share something I learned recently regarding C&R licenses. I checked with our local PO because I had read this on one of the many online gun forums, C&R holders are considered "dealers" by the USPS and can legally ship both handguns and long guns by USPS. They file a copy of your C&R and a form 1508 must be filed with each gun mailed. That form you can print out from the USPS website: http://www.usps.com/forms/_pdf/ps1508.pdf PO employees even suggest their various FREE shipping materials that will save you postage by using them.

 

[AirPower]

NOTE TO SIOP - I know comments here were directed to non-licensees, but I want to share something I learned recently regarding C&R licenses. I checked with our local PO because I had read this on one of the many online gun forums, C&R holders are considered "dealers" by the USPS and can legally ship both handguns and long guns by USPS. They file a copy of your C&R and a form 1508 must be filed with each gun mailed. That form you can print out from the USPS website: http://www.usps.com/forms/_pdf/ps1508.pdf PO employees even suggest their various FREE shipping materials that will save you postage by using them.

Now about C&R FFL shipping handguns via USPS. Does this only apply to C&R handguns, or does it include shipping non-C&R handguns as well?

 

[Car Knocker]

45Broomhandle ,

Could you please link to where in the USPS regs it says C&R collectors are dealers and can legally ship handguns via USPS. Or was this just a verbal opinion from a clerk behind the counter?

Reason I ask is the form you linked to requires the shipper to certify that he is a manufacturer or "bona fide dealer" and my C&R license states "This license does not authorize the holder to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms."

 

[SIOP]

45Broomhandle ,

Could you please link to where in the USPS regs it says C&R collectors are dealers and can legally ship handguns via USPS. Or was this just a verbal opinion from a clerk behind the counter?

Reason I ask is the form you linked to requires the shipper to certify that he is a manufacturer or "bona fide dealer" and my C&R license states "This license does not authorize the holder to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms."

There is no shortage of unknowledgeable clerks, whether at UPS, FedEx, or the USPS.

I think he just ran into a clerk that really didn't understand the difference between a C&R and a real FFL. As you point out, ATF specifically says that a C&R is not a dealer, and their regs governing shipping also specifically state that you have to be a dealer in order to use USPS.

I would get a definitive ruling from ATF rather than from the USPS.

 

[45Broomhandle]

INFO SOURCE QUOTE

Don - This is a regular topic of discussion on many forums. It appears this guy (quote below) took the final step and asked the BATF directly. I then took the question to my local PO. Reply I got was that USPS recognizes C&R holders as "dealers," able to ship all firearms through USPS - even though the BATF wording does NOT recognizes C&R holders as "dealers." Each of us I guess have to take our chances, follow our own council, and if you're still uncomfortable ask your local BATF office to call this guy for confirmation. Below is the complete text of the posting referred to:

Thread Title: "Mailing Curio & Relic arms to a C&R FFL licensee"
OK- this has been kicked around a lot- can you or can't you? Here is the answer I just got. This is from Steve Rosenthal, nice gent with the BATFE Firearms Tech branch at their HQ in DC. The post office regs limit mailing firearms, and uses the term "licensed dealer". In 18 USC, Chap 83, Sect 1715, part 431.5 defines "licensed dealer". It says." A manufacturer of firearms or a bonafide dealer in firearms is one duly licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) US Treasury Department, under the Gun Control Act of 1968." Per the BATF, a C&R license holder IS "duly licensed" under the '68 GCA, and DOES meet the standards to legally mail- and recieve by mail- C&R firearms. BATF is NOT defining us as dealers, but the Post Office IS. By the ATF reading of the regulations, C&R firearms, including handguns, MAY be mailed from an 01 licensee to an 03 licensee, or 03 to 03. If it is NOT a C&R firearm, all bets are off. Further down in the postal regs, in 434, it states that all questions on the mailability of a firearm will be referred to the ATF. Please note that there IS a form, #1506, that is to be completed and given to the post office when mailing ANY firearm. Gents- this is coming straight from the BATFE HQ Firearms section. If you have a local BATFE office that disagrees, tell them to call Steve. His number is 202-927-7770.

I now have to hunt down this particular posting - out of numerous forums I've visited recently - and see if further info has been posted. Note in this gentleman's posting he mentions form #1506. I could find no such USPS form. The one required is 1508. If I can find further info I'll post it here. In fact, I think Monday I may just call and see if I can speak with Mr. Rosenthal myself.

If I DO talk to him then can't relocate this thread, I'll start a new one.

 

[newfalguy101]

Whether an 03 can ship via USPS or not, its only going to apply to C&R guns as that is the ONLY firearms an 03 can legally transfer, without using an 01 dealer.

As for the original poster:

You have two options

1) use either UPS, FED EX, or some other common carrier. Take the packaged gun to the shipping counter, declare its a firearm ( be prepared to prove its going to an FFL ) cough real hard and hand em the monies.

2) Find a local dealer who will do the transfer on your behalf, pay the shipping and perhaps a transfer fee, smile hand over the cash and have a nice day.

Adding in a transfer fee, the options will likely be very close in price.

When the buyer sends his monies, have him include a copy of the receiving dealers FFL, you will most likely need it, if not for yourself, then for the dealer who does the transfer for you.

 

[Car Knocker]

45Broomhandle,

Let us know what BATFE does say if you call them Monday. Just remember that verbal authority isn't worth the paper it's written on. In the meantime, I think I'll write the Tech Branch for written clarification and in addition pose the question of whether a C&R licensee can mail a non-C&R handgun to an FFL/manufacturer.

Thanks for the detailed response.

 

[45Broomhandle]

DOESN'T COST ANYTHING TO ASK...

Car Knocker - On that forum discussion about C&R mailings it clearly addressed only C&R listed/approved guns, and NOT those requiring an FFL. It was also discussed that WRITTEN verification was needed and the writer was going to try to obtain that. I've searched ALMOST all the forums and haven't located it again. I'm not giving up! YES, I intend to call tomorrow for the BATF gentleman mentioned in the posting. Hopefully many other C&R holders will be interested enough to do their own search for verification, then share it with others. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all. 45B