How to tell a Winchester 94 'Japanese Moroco'?

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Deaf Smith

Deaf Smith

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Ok gang...

I got TWO trappers! Yes 94s.

Picked up one today, in 30-30, top eject, outstanding condition. Paid (get this) $368.04! Took it apart, inspected, and cleaned. Looks fine, functions with ammo (no firing) fine. Excellent bluing, stock fits well to boot. Will shoot tomorrow.

The other was the AE (no safety) .44 magnum Trapper. It's in pieces right now waiting for parts. That one cost me $600.

Now, are either of these 'Japanese Moroco' made guns? Or were they made after they added safeties to them?

How to tell if it's one of them?

Thanks,

Deaf
 
Likely not Miroku manufactured. Miroku only started making them after 2013. Only in .30/30, and in Rifle foremat (24" bbl's)
They also are running $1,100+!!!
 
$1100? Why would anyone fork over for that much just for a 30/30 and LONG barrel? Better be built like a Swiss (not Japanese) watch.

Deaf
 
Browning and Winchester are both owned by a French company. Browning has had their guns made by Miroku for years. Both Browning and Winchester are located in the same office in Morgan, Ut.
 
The Miroku made guns say "Made in Japan" and have a tang safety. The only Trappers or .44's they've made have been 1892's.


Deaf Smith said:
$1100? Why would anyone fork over for that much just for a 30/30 and LONG barrel? Better be built like a Swiss (not Japanese) watch.

Deaf
Click to expand...
Because their quality is head and shoulders above anything made domestically in 100yrs.


Dog Soldier said:
Browning and Winchester are both owned by a French company. Browning has had their guns made by Miroku for years. Both Browning and Winchester are located in the same office in Morgan, Ut.
Click to expand...
FN Herstal is not French, it's Belgian.
 
Olin actually continues to own Winchester. Browning in a joint venture has an agreement to use the Winchester name. Life gets too complicated. I stop by the Browning company in Morgan, Ut quite often. :)
 
In my personal experience, japanese machines make far better shotguns than belgian assembly line workers. I had a Belgian superposed in 12 ga. After a couple of thousand light skeet rounds, the rib fell off and one hammer had to be replaced.

It's Japanese replacement, a Browing Citori was not broken in well at 2,000 rounds. It was only after 5,000 rounds it would open without difficulty.
 
But the superposed was sure prettier eh? I just traded, jap for jap....mine was a Winchester 101 for a citori.

Anyway, ive never shot or handled one of the lever guns made by Miroku. I wont pay 1100 for a 94, but id be more likely knowing it where it came from.
 
They're pretty proud of the new "sushichesters".

"Insane" is what I'd call the MSRP and street price. The '94 is supposed to be the working man's or deersman's arm, not a 1 grand collector's item that the average guy would be afraid to take to the field for fear of scratching it up or something.
 
jaysouth said:
In my personal experience, japanese machines make far better shotguns than belgian assembly line workers.
Click to expand...
It's amazing that a country with such strict gun laws would be so good at making them.


Cooldill said:
They're pretty proud of the new "sushichesters".

"Insane" is what I'd call the MSRP and street price. The '94 is supposed to be the working man's or deersman's arm, not a 1 grand collector's item that the average guy would be afraid to take to the field for fear of scratching it up or something.
Click to expand...
Originally, the 1894 was available in all sorts of configurations. From plain working man's carbines to fully optioned deluxe sporting rifles that would impress the finest London gunmakers. The Miroku guns are more a reflection of the latter. Looking at the prices many new guns are commanding these days, they seem more a bargain than ever. A thousand dollars doesn't get you anywhere near as much as it did 10yrs ago. These guns cost that much because they're worth it. Not at all to be confused with the myriad $300 used guns on the racks of gun & pawn shops across America. I have several Miroku Brownings and Winchesters and I hunt with all of them.
 
Me neither, there's scads of old '94's available in this world. But the new Miroku '73's - mmmmm......
 
I'm fortunate to own a Miroku-made-for-Browning vintage late 1980's model 1892 in .44 Magnum. It's a 20" round-barreled carbine. I think I paid $899 used, but it had been hardly so. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Wonderful gun.
 
Miroku rifles will say Made In Japan on them.
Quite easy to determine.

Olin still owns the Winchester brand, but only produces ammunition, no guns.

Browning licenses the Winchester name for "Winchester"-branded firearms from Olin for FN, in whichever country they're made. It's not a joint venture with Olin, two entirely separate companies.

Browning is the import & service arm for Winchester firearms & other FN products.
Browning manufactures nothing & there is no Winchester firearms plant.

Winchester firearms are spread out through more than one country of origin.
FN Herstal in Belgium, as noted, owns both Browning & Winchester.
Denis
 
Ya know....i just thought about it, alot of us wont blink an eye at a 1k dollar bolty, when 350-400 dollar ones are just as good. why are we upset (myself included) about a 1k dollar levergun, that is likely in some ways to be comparatively nicer than a 1k vs 400 dollar bolty?
 
I hate to say it but the Winchester lever guns being made by Miroku are nicer than any example of a US made Winchester I've been able to examine. I found a Miroku made Model 71 in .348 Winchester a few months ago, and really wanted to buy it. It was worth every penny. Good wood, well fitted, excellent metal work, flawless bright bluing, and the action was smooth as glass.

I'm still kind of bummed I didn't do it. Don't even remember how much it cost but was north of $1K.
 
When you talk about the quality of firearms and the countries that make them, I think you can talk about rifles and shotguns in the same sentence. The very best shotguns are being made in Italy and Germany, not Japan. That doesn't mean the all Japanese guns aren't worth the money because some are. They are very popular with target shooters and hunters. Browning shotguns (Miroku) are excellent guns for the money, I've owned several. The Japanese also build some pretty good rifles. I just purchased a new Howa 1500 and it's a very good 1 moa rifle. Not a name everyone is familiar with and certainly not a huge seller but a pretty good rifle regardless. The company goes back to 1940 and manufactured Arisaka rifles for the IJA.

If I were buying a lever gun today I would look for a used pre 64 Winchester. There are plenty for sale online for $700. The new Olin/FN/Miroku/Winchesters :confused: are over priced. That pie is cut in too many pieces.
 
The new Winchesters seem pricey, and they are, but not crazy so when you consider how many of Smith & Wessons revolvers are in the $600-$800 range.

I also am a fan of the Miroku made Winchester/Browning guns. They got the lines on the receivers correct when the South American guns looked more like a generic gun than a 92, and the overall quality of the guns has always been head and shoulders above the others available. The lines have been improved on some other imports, but I still am not all that impressed overall with the other imports.

I have a strong like for a Miroku 1873. They seem pricey at $1200-$1300-ish range, but the Uberti guns are very close in price, and have had a history of odd quirks. They are pretty well made for the most part, but being that close in price I wouldn't think twice about getting a Winchester/Miroku over the Uberti.
 
CoalTrain49 said:
When you talk about the quality of firearms and the countries that make them, I think you can talk about rifles and shotguns in the same sentence. The very best shotguns are being made in Italy and Germany, not Japan. That doesn't mean the all Japanese guns aren't worth the money because some are. They are very popular with target shooters and hunters. Browning shotguns (Miroku) are excellent guns for the money, I've owned several. The Japanese also build some pretty good rifles. I just purchased a new Howa 1500 and it's a very good 1 moa rifle. Not a name everyone is familiar with and certainly not a huge seller but a pretty good rifle regardless. The company goes back to 1940 and manufactured Arisaka rifles for the IJA.

If I were buying a lever gun today I would look for a used pre 64 Winchester. There are plenty for sale online for $700. The new Olin/FN/Miroku/Winchesters :confused: are over priced. That pie is cut in too many pieces.
Click to expand...
The best shotguns are made in England.

The Miroku Winchesters and Brownings are better than any domestic Winchester, pre-64 or otherwise.
 
"Miroku rifles will say Made In Japan on them.
Quite easy to determine."

412871790.jpg

This 1895 has very little stamped into the steel. There is the Winchester monogram in an oval at 12:00; while below it says ".30-40 KRAG".
On the tang, aft of the safety, there's "WINCHESTER" in the trademark script, over "Model 1895" and that's it.
If it says Made in Japan anywhere on the rifle, it's going to be under the handguard, or maybe the underside of the butt plate.
It does say Made In Japan on the box, however.
-----krinko
 
Out here in the Mountain West I never recalled anyone discussing the quality of a Saddle Carbine. When you needed a carbine you went to town and slapped down $57 hard earned dollars for a Winchester 94. Your choices were .32 or .30-30 with or without a saddle ring. Most were bought without saddle rings. It saved time having to remove it and throw it away. But now the world is more complicated. No, not necessarily better. :)
 
The folks balking at the price need to look at Henry's website. Several guns hovering around the $1000 mark, with some way over. Some may not agree but in my opinion anything produced by Miroku is about a million times better than anything produced by Henry.
 
I don't want to engage a "Big" argument. I am not familiar with Henry firearms only slightly aware. Am I wrong? But the Henry receiver is actually a stamped action dust cover? It is not a cast or machined solid receiver? If I am wrong don't attack me like a "Bald Faced" hornet. I am asking a question. :)
 
CraigC said:
The best shotguns are made in England.

The Miroku Winchesters and Brownings are better than any domestic Winchester, pre-64 or otherwise.
Click to expand...

Better and best are subjective terms. British guns can be the most expensive. George Digweed, a Brit, shoots an Italian Perazzi. I'm pretty sure he could afford a Brit gun if he wanted one. I'm assuming you know who George Digweed is. Beretta (Italian) and Browning dominate the Olympic sports. I would have to say judging by the number of those two makes that I see in the field and at the range they lead the pack as the most popular. Maybe not the "best" as you say, but definitely the best value.

As far as the Olin/FN/Miroku/Winchesters go, they are excellent guns. Are they better than a pre 64 Winchester for twice the price? I personally don't see it. If replicas are your bag, it's your money.
 
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