How to Tell if a Gun Fits You

[9mmepiphany]

We often have threads asking about advice on which gun to choose as a next purchase. These threads will often narrow it down to defensive purposes. Other than folks who simply post what their favorite pistol is...often without even a hint at their reasoning (about as helpful as a poll)...there is the oft repeated advice to "Pick what fits you best". In the days prior to the internet and ranges with rental guns, this was usually your only option. You would think that with the social media available today that folks would have a chance to try out most guns prior to purchase.

But how do you really tell which one really fits you best?
Is it just how it feels in your hand?
Is it how it feels when you shoot it in slow fire?

When comparing pistols, I'd highly recommend trying them under the conditions you intend to use them. I recommend the same process for folks considering switching platforms or techniques. You also have to use a quantitative measurement...ie.:reasonable accuracy requirements and using a timer.

For a easy test of which gun/techniques work best for you, I highly recommend the Bill Drill. This is a test of how the gun works for the shooter as opposed to the skill of the shooter...granted, you do have to be able to shoot well enough to meet the minimum standard of 6 rounds into 8" at 7 yards.

The original drill was to draw and fire 6 rounds, at 7 yards, into a USPSA target as quickly as you could put all the rounds into the "A" zone....<3.0 sec is a good starting goal

There are a couple of steps you can take to save money
1. Rather than buy holsters (unless you can borrow), you can start the strings from low ready.
2. Rather than using fresh targets, can use:
a) a sheet of binder paper (USPSA "A" zone)
b) a 8" paper plate (IDPA "-0" zone)

Ideally, if you are easily putting all your shots onto the target, you should gradually move further away from the target until it becomes a challenge with even your best gun...25-35 yards isn't a bad test. You should repeat the drill a number of times to get a good average rather than depend on a good run

Does anyone else have other good drills to evaluate pistol/user interface

 

[Wishoot]

Sorry to be overly simplistic, but I have a fairly straightforward process for evaluation:

1. Does the gun feel good in your hand? If yes, proceed...
2. Can you put most of your shots within the 9 ring from 15 yards? If yes, proceed...
3. Do I have enough money in my checking acount to pay for it? If yes, proceed...
4. Can I hide it from my wife? If yes, you're good to go.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

When it comes to how the gun feels in your hand I hand the person a gun and ask if there is something that doesn't feel right or out of place. Did that with my brother and went through many different guns till he decided on a SW1911.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I used to do that also.

But then I handled enough guns to find the exceptions
1. Browning Hi-Power - it felt great in my hand, just wouldn't return to POA (I've bought 3 of them over the years, I was much harder headed then)
2. Beretta 92 - it felt like a 2"x4" in my hand, but it was the fastest of the 5 different (manufacturers, not models) 9mms I was trying out that day
3. Glock 19 - it felt just like the G17/22 in my hand, but it grouped tighter and faster

 

[rellascout]

First thing I check is can I properly grip the pistol in the web of my hand with a proper grip and reach all of the controls. Can I decock the pistol if it is a DA/SA gun. Is the thumb safety natural if it is a SAO. Each time I grasp the pistol does the pistol naturally center itself in the web of my hand or do I have to keep adjusting it. If it cannot get past these simple tests I move on. Experience has told me I can shoe horn myself into a lot of pistols but the ones that really fit all do this right out of the box.

There is no substitute for extended range sessions with both quick timed shooting and slow fire IMHO. With DA/SA guns the bill drill can hide issues a shooter might have with the DA pull. You are only pulling it once in the string and the follow ups can mask issues with the DA pull. With DA guns I like to shoot decock and shoot DA again. Rinse and repeat. I shoot a mag or 2 this way. I mention this because I have bought 2 CZ 75Bs with similar results as your BHP experience. After enough DA shooting I realized that I was adjusting my grip to accommodate the grip in the DA mode. Bought and sold bought and sold... until I learned.

One of the biggest issues is that too often people cannot shoot the guns they are considering. There is not a range where they can shoot them or they do not have friends who have a varied collection which they can borrow. Many people are picking guns without ever actually firing a round.

So in if I cannot shoot I personally like to start from a low ready position or from a holster and draw bringing the gun to the ready position. Are my hands lining up properly? Are the sights naturally lining up? How is the trigger reach, checking both DA/SA trigger length if applicable. This is a good approximation of the bill drill without actually firing the gun. I have found guns that do not fit my hand do tend not to raise up to the same ready point with repeatability. Sight picture upon presentation changes as I attempt to properly grip the pistol. Ones that fit present naturally.

This not only tests the feel in the hand but helps you determine if the gun "feels" balanced in your hand. I have held many which seem to dip down or present tipped up. This is not 100% accurate unless the pistol is loaded which is not always a option but is it a major consideration for me personally. I prefer the P228 to the P229 because of this type of balance issue.

In the end the more you shoot the better you become at choosing a gun. We all tend to figure out what works for us and what does not. It is hard to translate that to other people. I also find that after you have shot enough you gravitate to similar systems and configurations which have been successful for you in the past. This is why some people become Sig fans or Glock fans or CZ fans. The fundamental principles often translate from one model to another within a product line.

 

[harrygunner]

A few of what I do to see if a gun "fits".

- Close your eyes while pulling the trigger on an empty gun and concentrate on the trigger pull.
- Does the pad of your shooting finger fall easily on the trigger without stretching or scrunching? Does the gun pull to either side as I pull straight back?
- Is the grip on your gun big or small enough for you to feel confident making follow-up shots?
- Identify a small spot on the wall, keep your eyes closed and draw your empty gun and point it at the spot. See if the sights line up with the spot.
- Can you reach the controls with either hand?

 

[PT92]

For me, the moment I picked up a Beretta 92, I just KNEW this was it (though I settled on the Taurus version). And I really believe that's the first and most important point. And next, of course, you must make sure this translates into a gun of which you can be accurate with. But I don't know of a fellow shooter who ever told me that the gun that feels just right, he can not shoot accurately --I think a gun that fits like a glove will naturally shoot well for the respective owner.

Sometimes in life, there's just no science--Kind of like love, You Just Know.

------
NRA Life Member

 

[MikeJackmin]

- Does the pad of your shooting finger fall easily on the trigger without stretching or scrunching? Does the gun pull to either side as I pull straight back?

- Identify a small spot on the wall, keep your eyes closed and draw your empty gun and point it at the spot. See if the sights line up with the spot.

These are good tests. Another test is to aim at a small point while holding the gun with one hand. Now squeeze your grip extra tight - does the aim point move around? Are you aiming higher or lower? Did the gun twist in your hand?

Consistency is everything. Get the same grip on the gun every time you draw it, and maintain that grip each time the gun recoils, and each time you squeeze the trigger, and it will put all of its bullets in the same place for you. It has to be comfortable and natural or it will just be an endless fight.

 

[9mmepiphany]

But I don't know of a fellow shooter who ever told me that the gun that feels just right, he can not shoot accurately --I think a gun that fits like a glove will naturally shoot well for the respective owner.

...and that is really the point of this thread.

I've proven many times that feel is an unreliable indicator. Through my instructing, I've also found that many newer shooters really don't know what the gun should feel like when it fits correctly.

I shouldn't complain, there is a steady demand for instruction...and the most consistent initial correction is usually uneven lateral pressure of the shooter's grip

 

[Shadow 7D]

I think a good shooter will be able to shoot any gun well
BUT
I also think that those guns that align with his ergonomics, training, and taste, will perform MUCH better.

One test I have heard about is a variant of the "draw and aim with eyes closed"
but was rather aim at the target (new or completely patched) fire one round and reset for the second like a double tap, open your eyes and see where your aim has returned to.

But I also think that training and taste have a lot to do with the preference.

 

[Zerodefect]

1.) How a gun feels is irrelevant. The best combat grips that rule most of IDPA, IPSC, and 3 gun are anything but comfortable.

2.) A Glock becomes a ton more friendly when one of those grips is used with it. Comfortable? No. But it shoots well. The 1911 I shoot best is not my most "comfortable" 1911 by far. A high tang grip is great for spped and recoil control, not comfort. At the end of a long day, I will have my hands cut up a bit from clamping onto the gun so aggressively.

3.) Plenty of 1911's require custom fitment if you want perfection.
-trigger length
-MSH
-thumb safety shape

4.) Buy the least amount of pistols as possible. Get as much training and experience on as many different types as possible first. (Unless your rich, then buy one of each)

5.) Sights need to fit your eyes. Noone is the the same here. But plain rears work best for many. Then choose a front based on light. F/o, Gold bead, or Trijicon night sight.

6.) The stop watch and score card don't lie. How a gun feels in your hand in a static setting in a gun store......may be a bit of a lie. Who hasn't thought that an old fashioned DA/SA HK USP isn't comfortable? But I would never choose to compete with one over a less comfortable Glock or 1911.

The gun that "fits" you best, is the gun that shoots the best in your hands. Deosn't matter if it wears a bloody hole in your hand. It's a gun, not a designer sofa. The wear and tear on my hands sure beats the alternative........

 

[1SOW]

rellascout:

First thing I check is can I properly grip the pistol in the web of my hand with a proper grip and reach all of the controls. Can I decock the pistol if it is a DA/SA gun. Is the thumb safety natural if it is a SAO. Each time I grasp the pistol does the pistol naturally center itself in the web of my hand or do I have to keep adjusting it. If it cannot get past these simple tests I move on. Experience has told me I can shoe horn myself into a lot of pistols but the ones that really fit all do this right out of the box.

I agree, for Step #1!
I'm not referring to just the type of grips on it---that might be step #4.
I've "shoe-horned" home made grip's, custom trigger reach mods and other other attempts make a pistol fit me; instead of finding one that fits me to start with. Everything made it better, but nothing made it really "fit" my hand. I stubbornly still like this pistol, but would shoot better/faster with another that fits OOB.

 

[stanger04]

The best fit is in the mind. If you are confident with it and practice, then it is a good gun that fits you. I have small hands but my favorite handgun is a G19c. I love the c as it is not as common.

A man that knows his weapon, is efficient with it, that's how he knows it. I see the if the gun fits issue in a shoulder weapon.

 

[LiveLife]

Does anyone else have other good drills to evaluate pistol/user interface?

I use this test BEFORE I even buy the pistol.

I dry fire while watching the front sight. If the front sight moves/jerks when the hammer/striker is released, I move to the next pistol. If the entire batch's front sights move, I will select the one that moves the least. You are paying the same amount of money, regardless which pistol you select - Why not start with the best "foundation" for accuracy? All the pistols I have purchased, I selected the ones where the front sight did not move. It is of my opinion that this preempts other variables that determine shot group accuracy.

Next comes grip feel and ergonomics but that's been discussed to length already.

Ultimately, for striker fired pistol, I would select the pistol/barrel combination that produces the smallest consistent shot groups that trumps "grip fit" (like Glock). If you can get both, that's even better (like M&P). I think the reason why 1911s are so popular is that you are usually essentially guaranteed both with the first trigger pull.

Holes on target speak volumes.

 

[masterofchaos]

I'll chime in as a newbie to shooting and maybe it will help draw some information out of you experienced and skilled folks. When I went to buy my first handgun (after a scare in my neighborhood), as a single female with a Pitbull Mix who sleeps through thunderstorms, I wanted protection. I went to Gander Mtn. a few times with dif. pistol shooter friends. I listened to what they recommended and held about a dozen 9mm guns as that was where I headed in choice (decent stopping power in my small home; less kick than the more powerful options). As I held a gun I thought about it's REAL purpose (sure target shooting is fun) and wanted a pistol I was confident I could protect myself and be safe with. I chose a DAO b/c the certainty needed in pulling the trigger. But I also chose the gun by feel in my hand, like another mentioned. It shouldn't slide or feel like a stretch to the trigger. As I gathered more guns (a fun .22LR Beretta and a Colt .38 snub) and I target shoot I realize the DAO trigger on the 9mm is harder to learn. I KNOW people (friends and gunsellers) said DAO is not the usual first gun, but like I said I needed the safety confidence (I didn't like to have to mess around with a safety). I can't tell you if this was a good decision or not. I have not shot it enough and frequently, nor gotten formal training (plan to do that), but a friend and I have started to shoot frequently at his property so this sport has peaked my interest. So feel free to comment on first-time purchases by those who need confidence [read as city slickers who's dads (or moms) never took us shooting] and we kinda had to pick it up when necessary.

 

[Zerodefect]

Exactly. As you're finding out, it's a whole lot of trial and error. By the time you have enough experience to know what works for you, that may end up being a completly different style of pistol.

I've been shooting for a long time. But even within the last few years the types of pistols I shoot, and the sights I prefer, have changed drasticly. Just the natural evolution of a shooter and ever increasing pistol technology and techniques.

 

[9mmepiphany]

masterofchaos - welcome to the forum

I think you made a good choice in the DAO as a first gun. It really isn't any harder to learn, be it a striker fired gun or something like the Sig DAK or H&K LEM, but the key is to learn the correct techniques from the start.

A common mistake is to think that the trigger pulls are different...they're not. The only difference between the way you should stroke a DA trigger and a SA trigger is the distance that the trigger travels before the hammer/striker falls...the manipulation of the trigger is exactly the same.

While holding the aligned sights on target, you start pressing the trigger to the rear. You don't stop as they drift off the target and you certainly don't speed up when they are centered. If you can stay in the process, rather than become involved with putting hits on the target, your shooting will improve.

Always remember that, Slow is Smooth & Smooth is Fast. Don't hurry your shooting, the speed will come without you noticing. The secret to shooting faster is learning to see the sights aligned on the target more quickly. The secret to shooting more accurately is pressing the trigger smoothly to the rear when you see the sights aligned on the target.

 

[Resist Evil]

I have used a Ruger Mark ? .22, a Miroku .38 Spl (like a J-frame), Heritage 2000 9mm, Beretta 92fs, Kel Tec .32, North American Arms Guardian .380, Walther P230 in .380 and a Star PD in .45 acp, (not in chronological order) as carry pistols before I picked up and shot a 1911 in .45 acp.

It was love at first grip. I just knew this platform was it for me.

I tried different types of grip panels to fine tune the feel of my pistol in my hand and I have found rubber palm swell grips to feel the best.

So, for me, it was a matter of trial and error shooting different types of pistols over time that prepared me for meeting my one true love in pistols.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Perhaps I wasn't clear...I'm not asking for favorite platforms or what feels good in your hand or what you shoot best. Notice that in the OP, I did not mention the gun I was testing or what shot best for me.

What I'm looking for are other ways/drills/test to quantitatively judge the fit of a platform to that shooter.

Something that a new shooter can try with a new platform for see if it really works better for them than what they are using or thinking about buying

Many folks don't have any test, they go with whatever feels best or what they think they shoot best with...that doesn't address the OP and really isn't anymore useful to a shooter looking for a measurement/comparison than saying, "This is what I like"

 

[Carter]

I found out real fast if my handguns fit me during a small "near by" 3 gun match. There is nothing like a timed multi target set up to let you know if you and your gun are meant for each other. The first time I did it I found that I don't really need to aim with a 1911 out to a certain distance, it just lines up perfectly and follow up shots do too.

With my CZ phantom I found my first shot is usually pretty dead on, but my follow up shots aren't quite as good. I changed to the smaller back strap since then so I'll have to try this test again. Again, I wasn't really aiming with the sights, but just getting a general bead on a torso sized target.

I've also started using targets that move when you shoot them. A small self healing cube thing for example. It feels very different than shooting slow where you can readjust your grip alot. Trying to keep the target from resting really pushes your "relationship" with that firearm.

Sadly, my gun shops don't have ranges, and the places around here that let you rent are outrageous in price. Another downside is ranges around here that rent also have a one shot one second rule. Kind of eliminates quick follow up shots. SO I have a developed a little system for the store. I see how the gun sits in my hand when:
-having finger parallel to the barrel
-finger on the trigger
-when using safety or decocker
-when using slide release
-when using mag release
-and how easy it is to lock the slide back
If any of these operations are hard for the way the gun sits in my hand or don't feel natural I'll note it as a negative. I usually try to do each of those atleast five times.

I've found the 1911 is awkward for me to lock the slide back with, but I shoot it the best so maybe I need to rework my in store system to some extent though.


I've found though that doing little drills helps you fit the gun. Your hand is flexible, the gun isn't.

 

[LiveLife]

Years ago when I started shooting, I volunteered at a range to help with match stage setup/range clean up and in turn got to shoot all the extensive selection of range guns after hours (can you say private range session?). What I found was that the initial grip feel and the subsequent trigger pull often gave me the anticipation of, "Oh, I think I like this pistol." The range officer would smile and told me, "Wait until you shoot it, and THEN tell me how you like the pistol." Well, when the hammer/striker fell, it was often another story as how nice a pistol felt would not translate to consistent shot groups.

When I asked why, the range officer and various seasoned match shooters told this newbie shooter that a pistol was simply a mechanical device with a certain level of inherent accuracy built in from the factory. We are just "operators" that trigger the device. As long as we are consistent with our operation, the pistol will produce consistent accuracy to the extent of the inherent accuracy that was built in from the factory. Various shooting techniques we employ just allow the pistol to perform the mechanical functions more consistently, but won't increase the inherent built in accuracy of the pistol. To do that, it will require modifying/replacing the pistol components or the entire pistol itself with "match grade" components/pistols.

They stated that "match grade" pistols purchased or modified by the shooter will often make it easier to achieve this consistency, but more and more, many factory production pistols came with this consistency factored in. What I saw them do with new buyers or match shooters was to have them shoot as many different pistols first to narrow down the selection of pistols the shooter shot most consistently, THEN work on the shooting techniques to further improve the consistency.

I think what the OP is trying to illustrate is that depending on our physical and physiological make up, we may operate the same pistol differently and finding a pistol that allows you to "operate" it more consistently will produce more consistent shot groups faster and with less time/adjustments.

As to "quantitatively" testing the fit of the platform to the shooter, I would say:

1. Repeatability of the shot groups (is this same as repeatability of the trigger pull?). Can the pistol/shooter produce acceptable level of accuracy? Say, XX inch group at XX yards off hand.
2. Amount of time it takes to place the first shot on target
3. Amount of time it takes to place the second, third, fourth, etc. shots on target
4. Holes on target with calm shooter
5. Holes on target with stressed shooter (we exerted several physical activities to raise heart rate and disorient the shooter)
6. Holes on target with shooter in various positions (supine/prone/sitting)

Sum of these testing can be quantified by measurements of shot groups and times on shot timer.

We often ran these tests at the range to determine which pistols we shot most consistently with the smallest shot groups fastest and they were often not the pistols we felt "nice" in our hands.

I know I often place emphasis on "tactical" aspects of shooting but for me, it is the speed and shot groups I can produce under low/no light situations (often without the aid of the sights) while I am sleepy/groggy in various positions that define SD/HD "fit" criteria.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Thank you,
well said

 

[amprecon]

I think grip comfort is important, its not the only attribute that contributes to good accuracy, but it is a significant one. A person should feel confident when they shoot, this will aid in improved accuracy. One that bites or rubs your hand will cause a distraction thus inhibiting potential.
It should point naturally for you, you should be able to just throw the gun up at a target and you shouldn't have to adjust much.
When I tried 1911 handguns, I found the grip angle was not right for me, when I'd throw it up the barrel would be pointing at the ground, I'd have to make major adjustments to get on target.

We are all different from each other, significantly or slightly, so what works for one person may not work for another that may appear to be built the same.

Finding that "right one" will take some patience, but it should be a fun and educational experience although maybe expensive. I would recommend to someone looking for that right one to try to rent pistols from each manufacturer until you find that right one, you'll know it when you experience it. If possible, try renting different models from the same manufacturer. I couldn't shoot a Glock 17 worth a crap, but just love the Glock 19 and was so much better with it. I know, practically the same gun, I can't explain it, but it was just the way it was.

The gun that "fits" me is the Glock 21 and had never shot another pistol that I shot as well. I took a friend to the range and he had a variety of handguns to shoot. I had never considered FN pistols and he had a FNP45. It didn't feel that good in my hand and the first couple of shots were terrible. Then I adjusted my grip and concentrated on trigger pull and wow, scary accurate. These pistols apparently have replacement backstraps and this one had the flat backstrap installed. He didn't bring the curved backstrap, but if it was installed I felt I would have been able to shoot accurately with less effort. But even so, it still didn't feel like the Glock 21 does in my hand.

Being accurate will be almost effortless when you find it.

I will also say too that with practice, you can be accurate with a gun that doesn't fit you well. If its all you have, you can learn to conform to it rather than trying to find one that conforms to you.

 

[wally]

# Does the gun feel good in your hand? If yes, proceed...

I have to say unfortunately there is no real way to be sure short of shooting them.

Glocks feel like a block in my hand and I don't shoot them well. OTOH, the Beretta 92 feels like a block in my hand but I shoot it great.

That is why ranges usually have rental guns. If you can't try one of your friend's, this is the best way to be sure before buying.

 

[HoosierQ]

With a natural and comfortable grip, does the front sight move when the trigger is pulled? In no, that's a pretty good fit. That is my new best test. Also still going with the how the finger hits the trigger.

Had a P95DC. Nice gun, I shot it well enough. However the trigger was very weird and I had to pull the trigger with the first joint of my index finger rather than the third...annoying...traded for a Glock 19 which shoots very well, and carries like a dream.