How to Verify Powder Charge for Horn. LnL?

[Uncle Richard]

How can I set up my hornady lnl press to verify the proper amount of powder? I can use the powder-cop die but would like a buzzer, if possible. Please provide some ideas.

 

[ImjinScout]

Not sure what you mean, but after you weigh out a few charges to get what you want you should be all set. I have the hornady press and it throws very accurate. I also use the rcbs lockout die as a safety measure, but I always look to make sure. I trust mine and will check about every 100 rounds just to make sure

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[Uncle Richard]

i need a safety check such as the hornady powder cop die. like to set one up with an alarm in case of a double charge or low powder.

found a double charge in my 40sw xd today at the range. hand still sore from the lower splitting.

 

[Lost Sheep]

i need a safety check such as the hornady powder cop die. like to set one up with an alarm in case of a double charge or low powder.

found a double charge in my 40sw xd today at the range. hand still sore from the lower splitting.

I am happy to hear of your good fortune, no lasting injury.

How's the gun? Still safe to shoot?

The primary safety device, of course, it the operator.

Simple (low-tech) solutions (short of going to batch processing):

Set a mirror and light up so you can see into the case after charging with powder and look there with each pull of the lever.

Pick a powder that not only delivers the performance you want, but also fills the case more than halfway full. A double charge will notify you by spilling powder all over. While the alarm is silent, it is very visible and contains within it, its own training deterrent. After a few cleanup drills, you will find your double charge frequency dropping dramatically. You can get the same sort of training effect from a sound-alarm if you hook the speaker up to a low-voltage taser on your chair. Well, ok, that last part is not low-tech or simple.

Sorry, I do not know of any sonic alarms capable of detecting double charges.

One reason I do not load 40 S&W (aside from not wanting to spring for another set of dies and buy another gun) is that the 40 is a very high efficiency cartridge.

That means there is very little excess space in the cartridge. And THAT means a small increase in charge weight gives a more-than-proportional increase in pressure.

I would suspect that you did not get a double charge, but a light charge in the preceding round coming out of the press (due to powder bridging perhaps) and the powder that didn't fall into THAT round falling into (along with the proper charge) the round that blew up. That sort of loading error is very hard for a powder-check die to detect.

So, what powder measure were you using? Is there a lot of static electricity in your loading area? What powder were you using?

Lost Sheep

 

[BYJO4]

I also have 2 LNL AP presses and the powder measures are very accurate. Once the powder drop is set, I will check about every 50th round. However, I also use the RCBS Lockout Die as a safety precaution. It will lock up my press if the powder dropped is +/- 2 grains from my setting.

 

[Uncle Richard]

Lost Sheep,

I have to disagree, I don't think the powder bridged over in this case. I've loaded 7000+ rounds on my lnl and had no troubles to date until today. It had to of been a double charge.

I will post a pictures of the gun and case on the forum. The lower receiver of the gun split open.

Thanks for your concern. I raised my hands towards heaven and thanked God that I didn't get hurt.


Thanks BYJ04,
Your the 2nd person recommending that device.

 

[ImjinScout]

Sorry to hear that your gun blew up and glad that you are ok, I would definitely get the lock out die. I also load.40s&w, but I always try and look in the case as a second check. I use hs6 and it meters great but it only fills half of the case, but I also don't load Max charge. After awhile I can see if the powder drop looks correct, the lock out die is great for double charge and for no charge, so this should help you out,

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[GT1]

Glad you are okay.

RCBS lock out die is what I use in my 650.

The only buzzer I know of is the dillon set up(Which isn't a bolt on for the LnL. I do recall a thread around here where someone installed one on a LnL though, with some drilling.), but I trust the lock out as far as such a thing can be trusted. It is for stopping doubles and squibs more than trying to measure. Meaning, it won't stop kabooms if one is loading max of titegroup, for instance.

 

[777TRUTH]

Not sure what you mean, but after you weigh out a few charges to get what you want you should be all set. I have the hornady press and it throws very accurate. I also use the rcbs lockout die as a safety measure, but I always look to make sure. I trust mine and will check about every 100 rounds just to make sure

That is my set up as well. Once the charge is set I find VERY little deviation in the charge with HP-38, Power Pistol, Bullseye and AA#2. Your powders may vary though.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

Another vote for the RCBS Lockout Die. Unlike the Hornady Powder Cop (or the similar RCBS Powder Check) it does not require that the operator watch the die. If the powder level is too low or too high, it stops the press cold.

My LNL measure throws consistent charges but "stuff happens" and I like having the Lockout Die in place. The first time it "activated" it was because a .357 Magnum case had gotten mixed in with the .38 Special cases I was loading.

I also keep a small LED flashlight on top of the press. It lets me see what I am doing.

 

[Uncle Richard]

Thanks Guys!

Looks like I'll be purchasing the RCBS lock out die. Its $47 from Midway and has excellent reviews.

I appreciate that no one was critical, I feel bad enough as is.

 

[ImjinScout]

I think that you may want to consider that you could have had bullet set back, with the,40 being high pressure some set back could have created what happened.

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[kingmt]

I would consider set back also.

 

[hAkron]

I agree with the lockout die. Better than a powder cop because it will stop the press from cycling if there is a double charge or a no charge. It's simple to setup and adjust too and works very well. When there is any type of stoppage on my progressive press, that's usually when a no powder or a double will happen, when you stop to attend to something and you lose your place. A lockout die and using your eyes to visually inspect is what works best for me.

 

[Blue68f100]

The powder dispenser in the LNL is very accurate with the right powder. I use the powder cop because I can use it with rifle too.Get you into the habit of checking it no matter what your running. The lockout die only works for pistol. In what have you invented thread one users built a digital alarm to work on the powder cop die. Give you a green when good and red /w audio on a bad charge. I have thought about building one but have not done it yet.

It's hard to double charge on a AP. The only way this can happen if short stroke the handle. 1 std full stroke this is not going to happen. I like using powders that fill the case so any double charge if it ever happens will over fill the case, or at least make it very obvious. Now if you cleared a problem you may have not every thing back in proper order. When this happens I clear all station, then correct the problem, empty all powder and put then start all primed cases in station 2. The press rotation will take the primed cases to the powder drop. All un-primed goes back into my brass feeder.

I would suspect setback like other have suggested. Now there has all ready been one 40 blowup this year using TG. It's very sensitive to setback.

 

[ImjinScout]

I am curious as to what powder and what charge weight the op is using for this, is at Max charge and a little set back could be problems

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[Uncle Richard]

180gr RN copper plated, ~5.28gr of Win. Super Field, Win. small primer, OAL 1.12" with a tapper crimp, chroned at 870fps. Have shot several thousand and very accurate.

The rest of the case seared off and is still in the chamber.


Could setback cause this? I looked at every round while loading the clip.

 

[blarby]

Have your powder cop die ( the one that rises up and down) open and close a simple circuit hooked to a lightbulb or buzzer...... not difficult with a very light push/throw switch.

 

[jef2015]

It sounds like you decided on the lock out die and I think it's a good choice. It physically stops you from proceeding if there is a double or squib charge which is good as a buzzer. Be aware, the margin over/under it takes to lock the press is 2-3 grains.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

It's pretty tough to double charge on a LNL.

 

[Lost Sheep]

180gr RN copper plated, ~5.28gr of Win. Super Field, Win. small primer, OAL 1.12" with a tapper crimp, chroned at 870fps. Have shot several thousand and very accurate.

The rest of the case seared off and is still in the chamber.


Could setback cause this? I looked at every round while loading the clip.

Yes, setback could cause that. (I should have thought of that.) And probably more likely, too. I believe a double charge would have done more damage.

Loading into the magazine, the ammunition could be dimensionally fine and setback occur as the round hits the feed ramp. Pressure increase could be anywhere from minimal to lots, depending on how much the bullet was set back.

For clues, take a look at your other remaining ammunition. See if any of them can be easily set back by pushing the noses of some of the bullets on a hard surface. If so, you have evidence that setback could be the cause.

The cure would be to make sure your case-mouth belling is not too large for your bullets (will reduce the friction of the case on the bullet) and that your taper crimp is strong enough.

What dies are you using?

Lost Sheep

 

[Uncle Richard]

Yes, setback could cause that. (I should have thought of that.) And probably more likely, too. I believe a double charge would have done more damage.

Loading into the magazine, the ammunition could be dimensionally fine and setback occur as the round hits the feed ramp. Pressure increase could be anywhere from minimal to lots, depending on how much the bullet was set back.

For clues, take a look at your other remaining ammunition. See if any of them can be easily set back by pushing the noses of some of the bullets on a hard surface. If so, you have evidence that setback could be the cause.

The cure would be to make sure your case-mouth belling is not too large for your bullets (will reduce the friction of the case on the bullet) and that your taper crimp is strong enough.

What dies are you using?

Lost Sheep

Lost Sheep,

I will check my other ammunition when I get home tonight from work. I'm having a hard time believing setback was the problem, but will take your recommendation to heart.

I'm using Hornady dies. I've loaded thousands using the current die setup. This is the first time this has ever happened to me.

I plan on calling Springfield today regarding this issue. I'm very interested to hear what they have to say.

 

[Canuck-IL]

It's pretty tough to double charge on a LNL.

In my experience, this is very true ... the plate rotation pawl clicks over when the plate has only been raised approximately 1/3 of the way toward the powder drop ... so the position rotation is a done deal well before a short pistol case comes near the powder activation mechanism.

As others, I'd suspect setback ... perhaps abetted by a weak case neck or one with a hairline crack.
/Bryan

 

[ole farmerbuck]

Lost Sheep,

I will check my other ammunition when I get home tonight from work. I'm having a hard time believing setback was the problem, but will take your recommendation to heart.

I'm using Hornady dies. I've loaded thousands using the current die setup. This is the first time this has ever happened to me.

I plan on calling Springfield today regarding this issue. I'm very interested to hear what they have to say.

I can tell you what they'll say, or what they said to me. Send it to them and they'll fix it. My 40 has a new serial number now but they did fix it. Felt like a small bomb going off in my hands.