How to Work up the Perfect Load?

[Significent]

I'm about to start reloading my first 223 Remington cartridges for my heavy-barreled, 1 in 12†twist, bolt rifle. I've read a bunch and I have an idea how to proceed, but I'd like to get some input. Here's what I have planned:

Objective: Only one - Accuracy

Supplies: AA2230 powder, Lake City 99 brass, Winchester small rifle primers, 52gr HP, BT Speer Match bullets.

Process: De-prime, clean primer pockets, clean cases, lube and neck-size cases. Remove lube. Trim and de-burr all cases to uniform minimum length. De-burr flash holes. Hand prime. Weigh all charges (start at minimum charge + 0.1gr). Taper crimp (starting at maximum OAL if possible) five rounds each, increasing charge 0.3gr between sets.

Fire each set of five rounds into their own target at 100yds. Graph charge weight against average distance from center of group. Look for barrel/velocity nodes. Pick the node with the tightest groups. If two nodes are about the same, pick the higher charge-weight node if no signs of stress are evident. Repeat the process starting with 2 grains less powder than the amount used at the best node. Load 5 rounds each, increasing the charge weight at 1 grain increments until two grains over the initial node charge. Identify the best charge, again graphing charge-weight against average distance from center of group.

Next, load sets of five rounds stepping back the OAL at 0.01" increments from maximum OAL to minimum OAL. (All OALs will be determined using a bullet comparator for the measurements.) Fire each set of five rounds into their own target at 100yds. Graph OAL against average distance from center of group. Look for some correlation. More than one “Sweet Spot†may be evident. Load up another batch varying the seating depth 0.003â€, bracketing what looked like the best seating depth in the first batch. Shoot em up and identify the best OAL.

A couple of questions:
1) How long should I wait between each set of five rounds? For that matter, how long should I wait between individual rounds? My barrel is not fluted.
2) How do I determine a “minimum†OAL?
3) Should I weigh all cases and group them in a certain way? If so, how?

Please shoot holes in my process and let me know what I should do differently. Any input is welcomed.

Thanks,

 

[Jeeper]

You basically have what most people do listed. I am questioning why you are so specific with using that powder, brass and bullet. I think that the actual bullet selection process of shooting different brands and weight makes more of a differenc than charge and length. THat is just me though. WHy not try some Berger or other bullets of high quality?

 

[Significent]

Reason for Specific Components

Jeeper: I had to start with something. I got 200 of the primers for nothing from my father. My impression from what I've read is that one brand of primer is as good as the next. If they perform satisfactorily, I'll probably keep buying them. I picked the Speer bullet for a few reasons: 1) I have a Speer reloading manual. 2) The boat tail bullets have a higher ballistic coefficient. 3) Hollow point bullets have their lead poured in from the front into a uniform base, supposed making for a better balanced bullet. Also, I've already purchased 200 of them. As for the brass, it’s what I have. I bought several hundred rounds of Georgia Arms Canned heat from a friend who no longer had a use for it. He sold it to me for little more than what the brass alone would cost. I have yet to purchase the powder. The AA2230 was made for the 223 Remington. It's supposed to meter well, burn consistently and clean up well. In a recent thread, here on The High Road, AA2230 was mentioned a couple of times as being a good powder for reloading 223. I'm new to reloading and open to any suggestions. What combination of components do you prefer and why.

Thanks for your input!

 

[larryw]

Couple comments:

Don't crimp cartriges shot from a bolt gun. Unnecessary and will hurt accuracy.

Best accuracy is often found when cartridges are longer than max OAL. Get yourself a Stoney Point Chamber Gauge and measure the throat. You want a .010 to .015 jump. As accuracy is the game, it doesn't matter if they don't fit in the mag, right?

With a 223 and some powders, you can miss a sweet spot when jumping .3gr between loads. In some of my loads, .1gr is the difference between .2" and .5" five-shot groups.

Compressed loads seem to shoot best.

Your gun with a 12" twist will probably shoot a 40gr bullet better than the 53gr.

 

[Jmurman]

do you have a chronograph?

 

[Significent]

Good Advice

Larryw: Your advice sounds good. The longer OAL shouldn't be a problem as long as I have enough bearing surface on boat-tailed bullets. My magazine seems long enough to accommodate longer OALs too, although I don't normally use the magazine. When you say: "You want a .010 to .015 jump", do you mean that much longer than the max spec. OAL? I don't have a chamber gauge. Is there another way to measure the throat, or is such a gauge the only option? Regarding the initial increments in charge, I read that the heavy barrels typically have a longer phase so the distance between nodes is longer. Do you have a heavy barrel? If I increment only .1gr in the first set and I shoot five bullets in each set, I end up shooting about a hundred rounds before I even start adjusting OAL. Is this par for the course? Since I'm looking for a flat trajectory, perhaps I should start the sets at a charge weight nearer the middle of the range rather than at the minimum charge. In that scenario, I'd fire a few rounds charged from minimum up to the midpoint, just to make sure I see no signs of stress. As for the 40gr bullet, I'm concerned about wind. The 52gr bullet is already moderately susceptible to wind. I purposely stepped back from 55gr bullets figuring their stability might be borderline. Also, will I be able to find 40gr., match-grade bullets? With 40gr bullets, I don't think I'll be able to load even to max spec. OAL since they're so much shorter.

Jmurman: I don't have a chrony. It's on my wish list. I figure if I get good results, before I change any of the components, I'll clock my rounds so I know at what velocity I'm getting good performance. Then I won't have to go through the entire process again.

Thanks for your input. With your help, my plan is coming together.

 

[hps1]

"You want a .010 to .015 jump", do you mean that much longer than the max spec. OAL? I don't have a chamber gauge. Is there another way to measure the throat, or is such a gauge the only option?

Bullet jump is the distance from the ogive of the bullet to the lands, ie. the distance bullet "jumps" before hitting the lands.

The stoney point is the easiest way to measure the throat but you can do so by using a fired (in your rifle) case. Either crimp the neck of the case with a pair of pliers so that you can push the bullet you are planning to load into the case neck with some resistance or you can run it into a sizing die just enough to hold the bullet just snug.....so that when you close the bolt on the "round" with bullet inserted "long", the rifling will push bullet back into case. Neck tension must be sufficient to extract the round without the bullet moving but loose enough to allow bullet to be bulletseated by rifling. Using the comparator, you can then measure the rifle's throat.

Note: If neck tension is not sufficient there is a danger that the bullet will be extracted slightly or stick in rifling. To be sure that this has not occured, you can "paint" the lower portion of the bullet with a Marksalot and if it slips out, you will be able to see signs on the bullet.

Regards,
hps

 

[Jeeper]

The other way to see what the max for your chamber is is to seat a bullet very long so that it doesnt fit into the gun. Then just back it off until it does. Then do the gap that was discussed.

As far as the bullet selection goes. I completely understand what you are talking about with the compnents you purchased. My only point is that there are other similar match grade bullets out there. I like sierra a lot but different guns shoot differrent bullets better. I have a few different guns in the same caliber that hate the loads that the other ones like. I have seen more variation with bullet selection than any other source. With all the changes that you are going to try you will burn through that first 200 quick anyway. It is just another variable to through into the mix. When I get a new caliber I usually start with a bunch of different bullets using a medium load that is 10-15 thousanths off the lands. Then whatever bullet works the best I use to mess with the powder charge and other variables. Everyone has their own way they like to experiment.

 

[larryw]

My gun is a heavy barreled Rem 700 (700VSLH). There's a picture of the results in a "show us your targets" thread in the general gun section.

I recommend you set the COL first using the jam method described by hps1. Many guns have the throat cut to handle the long bullets (<rant>why they do this in a 12" twist barrel is beyond me, try hitting a 24" target at 100 yards with a 75+gr bullet some time, if you do the hole will be a keyhole </rant>).

Your concern regarding bearing surface is valid. On my 40gr load, I had to make the cartridge shorter than ideal for this very reason. Still shoots 1/4MOA.

Once you determine the COL, then you can start loading. Yes, you will need to burn some rounds to find the right load, but that's just part of doing it right.

Also, learn to listen to the barrel. Some guns like to be cleaned, others shoot best if left alone. Mine needs about 5 rounds to settle down, then is good for about 200 rounds before I see any drop in accuracy, by 300 rounds, its a 1MOA gun.

FWIW: 40gr Hornady V-Max behind 26.2gr of N133 with a WSR primer is my best load.

 

[Significent]

It worked!

Gentlemen (Ladies?):

Thanks for your help. I've successfully measured my chamber length using the method you provided. Because of the boat-tail, I had to find a spent case that was longer than most. Measuring the length with the comparator before chambering the empty cartridge gave me 2.010 inches. After chambering the round and being careful not to let the bullet bear the lateral pressure of the retractor spring, I measured a chamber length of 2.000 inches. If I start loading at a length of 1.990, that only gives me a bearing surface of 0.020" using extremely long untrimmed cases. I don't know what is generally considered the minimum, acceptable amount of bearing surface, but 0.020" seems too little to me. What do you guys consider the minimum acceptable amount of bearing surface? I guess I won't be trimming my brass for a while.

Thanks again!

 

[Jeeper]

Now remember that the length you measured for max is ONLY for that bullet. Sinclair sells a device that fits around the bullet so that you measure the length to where the bullet acually turns to .223. If you switch or try other bullets then you need to do this agin for each one.

 

[hps1]

0.020" seems too little to me. What do you guys consider the minimum acceptable amount of bearing surface? I guess I won't be trimming my brass for a while.

Personally, I want at least one bullet diameter of contact between the bullet and the case neck.

Be very careful with case length. I would trim to recommended length first and then worry about COL.

Your case must be short enough for the case neck to release the bullet in your chamber. We had a very experienced reloader/competition shooter experience blow primers in his garand at a match several years ago. His load was not hot. Since I maintained the club rifles, I usually carried headspace gauges and cartridge case gauges in both 308 & 30-06. I checked his fired cases and found that the case was probably .010-.015" (eyeballed) over max. length and necks were not able to expand sufficiently to release the bullet when fired.
, resulting in rather high breech pressure.

Regards,
hps

 

[larryw]

That does seem to be a pretty small grip on the bullet. Also, you probably don't want to rely on long brass, but trimmed brass.

Using trimmed brass, preferably fireformed for your chamber, load one up and see if you can dislodge the bullet with your fingers or by pushing firmly against the bench. If not, you're good. If you can, resize the neck and seat it a "tad" deeper until it passes the test. I had to do this with my gun and a friend's too, thus my rant on throat lengths that don't match the twist.

Getting to your 40gr vs. 52gr question: wind will move these bullets. A bunch. I'd rather have a load that hits exactly where I want under ideal conditions and adjust for windage and drop myself. I found in a couple guns with 12" twists, the 40 gave me much better accuracy under all conditions. As its smoking along at almost 3900fps, trajectory is flat to 300 yards (virtually identical to that of the 52gr bullet). Both really start to drop at 400 yds.

Once you have your load properly sorted out, try one of my favorite warm weather range session fun activities (remember kids, don't try this with factory ammo): hunting flies and Yellow Jackets at 100 yards. Staple a few very small pieces of meat to your target and wait for your prey to land on the target (peanut butter works well too). You can keep shooting paper while you wait for them to land as the bullet strikes won't keep them away. To ensure a clean, humane kill, you want to leave only legs around a hole.

 

[Significent]

Pickle

Well, now I'm stuck. If I trim my cases to 1.760" (max case length), the boat-tailed bullets won't even start to seat at .010 worth of jump. The bullet pushed back in the long case 0.020" seems snug enough but, given hps1's note about a bullet diameter's worth of bearing surface and adequate space for release of the bullet, Im leery about using long cases to attain the long OAL.

The OAL with the bullet pushed into the long case by closing the bolt measured 2.376"

If I do a little calculating and use a case trimmed to the max of 1.760", seating the bullet with only 0.020" worth of bearing surface, I end up with an OAL of 2.350 and 0.026†of jump. The question now is: If Im already at 0.026†of jump with the longest recommended case and the extreme minimum amount of bearing surface, should I just forget about getting close to the rifling and seat the bullet with 0.200†of bearing surface as my starting point for making OAL adjustments? If I do so and seat the bullets 0.180†deeper, my starting jump will be 0.206â€. What do you guys think? Will I still find sweet spots as I gradually decrease the AOL even further?

Thanks!

PS - Larry - I'll be happy to wound horse flies consistently when I start the process.

 

[hps1]

The 1 caliber of seating depth is not cast in stone, especially in a bolt gun. If you cannot push the bullet back into the neck of a loaded case, it will be fine, as larryW stated. In a semi=auto, it is a little harder to keep bullet from working loose with less than the 1 cal. Most reloaders do not crimp when loading for accuracy.

Will I still find sweet spots as I gradually decrease the AOL even further?

As to bullet jump, each rifle is a rule unto itself. Don't worry too much about it until it is actually shown to be a problem. Find your best powder charge and then experiment within the limits of your bullet length which will govern the cartridge OAL. Some rifles shoot fine with quite a bit of bullet jump.

Basically, what you will affect by changing COL is the barrel harmonics. This can be changed by shortening OR lengthening the COL.

As an example, I am currently working up a load for a 300 Win Mag with a magazine length of 3.403" and a throat that measures 3.516". Since this is a hunting rifle, the rounds must fit the magazine, so least jump I can get is about .120". The best powder charge I have found produces right at moa accuracy for 5 shot groups loaded to 3.362" OAL. Next trip to range, I plan to load 20 rounds to max. magazine length, shoot a group and then push the the next 5 bullets back about .010" with a Lee hand tool, shoot another group and so forth until I find the best OAL within the limitations of my rifle. Will just have to accept the results as the best this rifle will do.

Regards,
hps

 

[larryw]

At this point, ignore the ideal .010-015 jump and seat the bullet the shallowest you can with the case still maintaining a firm grip on the bullet.

With these short, light bullets, you won't be able to use the standard caliber's width of grip. The jump in my favorite 223 is about .050 and the gun still shoots very, very nice.

 

[echo3mike]

I'd like to throw some fuel on the fire, but bear with me. I recently worked up some 175 SMK / Varget .308 loads using a modified Creighton Audette method which Dan Newberry calls an Optimum Charge Weight Method . This method explains why some factory loads (like FGM or Black Hills Match) work well in a large number of firearms while using the same (factory grade) OAL.

It seems that the method works pretty well. Many reloaders have had profound success with 175 SMK / Varget loads with charge weights somewhere in the 45.0gr area for the .308. This method isn't limited to this one load / bullet combination as he's used it for other calibers as well. There doesn't seem to be much difference in the componants used or the test rifles. OAL changes are utilized AFTER the OCW is located to fine tune the load, but it doesn't appear as important to the initial test run as is commonly thought.

Might be worth checking the link out.

FWIW,
S.

 

[AZRickD]

E3Mike,

I just checked out his web page. I have always been a proponent of the nodal theory of load work-ups but his point of impact consideration seems so obvious, I wonder how I could have missed it.

I have a Savage 10FP which I am using 43.9 grains of Varget to push a 168 Nosler J4 to .5MOA.

I may have to rethink things.

Rick

 

[caz223]

I wouldn't put the cart before the horse quite yet.
Why did you select 52 grain bullets with that twist?
I have the 700VS and mine shoots 45 grain hornet bullets waaaay better that anything over 50 grains.
Then again, I don't do long range, I try to stay around 200 yards or so with crows and groundhogs.
Combine light bullets with powders that do light bullets well, like 4198, and keep the OAL the same as it says in the reloading book you're using.
After you get the velocity consistant, and the power level where you want, then you might be able to benefit from playing with OAL.

 

[Significent]

52gr.

I picked 52 grain bulletes because I wanted them to hold up better when there's a little breeze. I haven't shot enough of anything to know what my rifle likes yet. After I have the 52gr. load working as I best I can, I'll give the 42 grainers a try.