HP Slugs

[JimmyN]

My opinion:
For home SD use a HP slug with a massive cavity would be ideal, but searching around I haven't really seen anything like that. It would seem to me that a 1-1/4 oz size slug, with a large cavity, reducing it down to about 3/4oz would give you great expansion (maybe an 1-1/2" or more) and still have plenty of penetration. Even if it broke apart into two or three pieces each would still provide a large wound track, yet I would think it would help prevent overpenetration in tissue or through walls. Imagine a Gold Dot or HST expanded out, but at shotgun slug size.

What's your opinion, and has anyone seen anything like that available on the market?

 

[Joshua M. Smith]

I think that the soft lead Foster slug, which deforms dramatically, is an ideal close range (<100yds) defensive load.

I also believe that 00 buck is ideal for out to 25yds, though if you are concerned about overpenetration in-home, a good dose of #7-1/2 shot would do well, provided it's fired at a distance that will let it and the shot cup enter as one, making sort of a "shotgun frangible" load that penetrates deeply. Beyond that range however, all bets are off and you're more than likely gonna just make somebody mad.

Josh <><

 

[Fred Fuller]

A lot of the available Foster type 'hollow point' slugs (really it's just a dimple) are dead soft lead, and with their thin walled skirts will flatten pretty quickly. Find one of those you can scratch with a fingernail and you should have what you want, without having to do anything radical.

They start out at about 70 caliber anyway, remember...

lpl/nc (sticking with Brenneke KO slugs, thanks)

 

[JimmyN]

I thought the Foster slugs were designed more for accuracy, with the solid nose and hollow base. Since for HD use I'm looking at ~10 yards as the maximum range I really wasn't interested in deer hunting type accuracy. A Foster turned around backwards is more what I was thinking, moving at 1300-1400 FPS it would certainly do a lot of damage.

It just seems to me that a slug along the lines of the HydraShok, DPX, Gold Dot, etc would work well. The shotgun certainly delivers the speed and foot pounds of energy to provide expansion.

The Polyshok's look good on paper and marketing, but I haven't found any info on actual use. Even though it's "plastic" rather than lead the ballistic tests are impressive. A temporary cavity of over 10" and a permanent wound cavity of around 5" should result in massive fluid and blood pressure loss.

http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_Projectile,,00.html

 

[Fred Fuller]

-from http://www.polyshok.com/

THIS AMMUNITION IS AVAILABLE TO
LAW ENFORCEMENT, MILITARY AND
LICENSED SECURITY AGENCIES ONLY.

=========================

Well well.

Too bad you and I aren't SPECIAL enough to be able to buy their holier-than-thou ammunition, huh?

Too bad plain ol' ordinary non-tactikool non-EEEElite sillyvilians like us are not to be granted access to the miraculous protective powers of this marvelous new breakthrough in ballistical science. Too bad we are not worthy to use this quantum advance in defensive ammunition to protect our hearths, homes and loved ones.

Do you ever ask yourself why it is that certain companies go through all this not-for-sale-to-the-public BS, hmmm?

Dang. Breaks my heart I can't buy their government-purchasing-contract-priced plastic bullets. Guess I'm stuck with those cheap trashy low-tech Brennekes again.

Oh well.

lpl/nc

 

[JimmyN]

Yeah, I had emailed them, it's not available for civvie use. But the concept should prove viable and maybe we'll see something similar come along for us ordinary people.

It is hard to understand why it wouldn't be available to everyone since it provides a great safety advantage. The videos on PolyShok's site are pretty impressive. It does the job, without unintended results.

So maybe I need to load up some Fosters turned backwards, or a soft lead wad cutter shaped slug, with a 1/2" hole drilled in the nose. The flat nose and low mass propelled at high speed appears to be the key.

 

[Oldnamvet]

Yeah, it's just irritating that our tax dollars go to pay for that overpriced stuff. Isn't a 70 caliber hole big enough to dissuade an attacker? I know people who think a .44 magnum pistol will put someone down when a 12 gauge slug won't.

 

[JimmyN]

The hole is certainly big enough. The problem is the depth of the hole. It will extend thru the bad guy and the next couple of houses as well.

I am using #00 right now because IMO slugs just have too much penetration. But across my great room (25') using a IC barrel, it's certainly possible one or more of the pellets may miss if I don't hit COM. And even #00 will pass through my exterior wall and end up in my neighbors house. The PolyShok design is only deadly for a couple of feet after passing through a wall, door, or BG.

 

[Fred Fuller]

JimmyN,

Iffin you are a reloader, take a look at http://business.listings.ebay.com:8...kwZAcetylQQsacatZ61794QQsocmdZListingItemList .

Now, a piece of delrin round stock turned down to the appropriate diameter, of a length to fill a shotgun shell would likely do about the same thing at close range as that polywhatever round. You could probably just epoxy it into the shot cup of your favorite plastic one-piece wad and be done with it as far as approximating their pro-jec-tile is concerned.

The old first-generation Sky Marshalls used nylon bullets in revolvers in some cases, to avoid overpenetration on airplanes... not a new idea on my part.

FWIW, iffin you decide to start reloading unorthodox stuff in shotgun shells, do please be careful. The laws of physics are pretty unforgiving.

lpl/nc

 

[JimmyN]

I wouldn't use anything for SD that I couldn't buy commercially. A home brewed "voodoo" round might not appear too innocent. It was designed just for killing, don't you know.


The response I got from Polyshok:

Thanks for your interest in our product. You are correct in thinking that Polyshok would be a great home/personal defense round. It may be available in the future but the liability issues with public sales are substantial, especially with a product that advertises low collateral damage. Cops and the military are willing to assume that liability but the public just wants to find an ambulance chasing lawyer and sue if anyone gets shot. As a small company, our insurance company will simply not cover liability for civilian sales at this time.

In addition, since Polyshok will defeat literally any body armor currently available, we really don’t want it in the hands of the bad guys. I know a 12 gauge slug will also defeat body armor but Polyshok wants to protect those who protect us.

 

[Bezoar]

Well you can get what your looking for in the hunting department already. The wonderful Remington company makes some nice hollow point ammo for shotgun.

Its the CoreLokt in a nice 360 jacketed hollowpoint design. Sure its only in 20 guage as of right now, but its efficient. And if you have a good remington 870 express magnum with the factory rifled barrel anda good scope, you have close in support as well as 100 yard capability here for hunting and self defense....

 

[Robert Hairless]

I wonder if any manufacturer has yet begun producing shells with a really lethal load such as cigarette tobacco. After all, the Surgeon General has declared it a health hazard. It probably wouldn't be wise to use a brand name like "Lucky Strike," though.

If that idea doesn't work out, perhaps trans fat should be considered.

Just some thoughts.