Hr 218

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House panel approves gun bill for officers

By Brian A. DeBose
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The House Judiciary Committee yesterday passed a bill that allows
active-duty and retired law-enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons
anywhere in the country.

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act heads to the floor of the House
for a final vote before going to the Senate, where a similar bill passed
as an amendment in March by a 91-8 vote. The bill permits "qualified"
law-enforcement officers - retired, off duty and outside their jurisdiction
- to carry a concealed weapon in any state regardless of the state's law.
It passed on a 23-9 vote.

The provision drew the ire of Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr.,
Wisconsin Republican and committee chairman.
"I believe it violates the principles of federalism and undermines the
authorities of the states," said Mr. Sensenbrenner, the only Republican who
did not support the bill.
Mr. Sensenbrenner amended the legislation before voting no on the final
bill. His amendment requires officers to have an official badge when
carrying a concealed weapon, as well as a photographic identification and
valid state certification.
Rep. Robert C. Scott, Virginia Democrat, also successfully attached an
amendment that prohibits officers from being under the influence of alcohol
or narcotics while carrying a gun.
Mr. Scott made several attempts to amend the bill before joining the
majority of Democrats in opposing it.
Although 34 states have no restrictions on law-abiding citizens
carrying concealed handguns, 16 states and the District do.
Democrat Reps. Melvin Watt of North Carolina and Bill Delahunt of
Massachusetts argued that Congress was enacting tyranny against the states.
"I can't believe we would consider a bill that starts out with
'Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State.' I mean, it
is clear this violates our Constitution," Mr. Watt said.
But Mr. Scott was more concerned about a jurisdiction's legal liability
if one of its residents is shot by an out-of-state officer. He said
another problem is that the bill will undercut police chiefs' authority
over their officers' weapons.
"This bill not only supersedes the police chiefs' ability to determine
what is coming into their jurisdiction, it overrides his authority over his
own officers," Mr. Scott said.
Rep. Maxine Waters, California Democrat, said the law requires much in
the way of trust of the officers. She also hinted that the law could lead
to more acts of police brutality by private citizens with badges.
"You're setting up police officers to get into all sorts of trouble and
jurisdictions to be subject to all forms of liability," Mrs. Waters said.
Serious misconduct by concealed-weapon permit holders is rare, says the
National Center for Policy Analysis, a public-policy research organization.
The center said in a 2001 study that, in most states, fewer than 1
percent of holders of concealed-and-carry licenses commit gun crimes.
Out of the 215,582 concealed licensees in Texas, 178 were stripped of
their permits because of felony convictions since 1996, study figures
show. Three have gone to jail for murder or attempted murder.
In Florida, where the state issued more than 72,000 licenses in 2000,
it revoked 241; among Utah's 40,000 licensees, five lost privileges because
of a conviction for murder or attempted murder. Indiana canceled 921
licenses in 2000, out of 350,000 permits issued there.
 
I originally didn't like the idea because of the differential between LEOs and regular citizens. I've heard all the arguments.

I now support the idea as it is a good test of Bush's mettle on gun issues. Would he sign it if it gets to him? Given his lack of proactive measures for the RKBA, this might put him to the test.

I guarantee that the powers that be will manage to keep this somewhere until after the election. Cynical old me.

If it got to the Senate, the AWB renewal would get attached to it by the anti dems and rinos. So it would get trashed.
 
You know I wonder if a person who applies for a LEO position, does the job and then quites would be allowed nationwide concealed carry.

Just a thought.
 
You know I wonder if a person who applies for a LEO position, does the job and then quites would be allowed nationwide concealed carry.
I haven't seen the latest wording of the bill, but IIRC the person must retire to qualify. That usually means 20 -30 years of service. Not just get hired, quite three months later and be covered under this bill.

I support it because I believe it's a small victory for gun-rights, and a logical first step toward nationwide CCW for all.

For full disclosure I'm a LEO, but I'm a fed so I already have nationwide CCW, and I won't retire for a couple of decades.
 
"Rep. Maxine Waters, California Democrat, said the law requires much in
the way of trust of the officers. She also hinted that the law could lead
to more acts of police brutality by private citizens with badges.
"You're setting up police officers to get into all sorts of trouble and
jurisdictions to be subject to all forms of liability," Mrs. Waters said."

How does someone this dumb get elected to Congress? That's my question.
 
I agree with Mr. Sensenbrenner on this one.

LEAA has been trying to get this off the ground, and while the motives are honorable, the way it is doing it is not.
I think that this should not pass as written.
 
I now support the idea as it is a good test of Bush's mettle on gun issues. Would he sign it if it gets to him?

Bush has so far signed everything that has made it to his desk. He hasn't vetoed anything at all, and I think he will sign this too. It is not a test of his mettle on gun issues at all.

I believe he will sign just about anything Congress sends him. Heck, he thought the Campaign Finance Reform was unconstitutional, and still signed it.
 
Perhaps a constitutional scholar could 'splain to me which of the 18 things that congress is empowered to do by article 1 section 8 would be the controlling justification for this piece of horse hockey.

Let's see, raise and support an army? :uhoh:
 
Okay - back to the float purpose...

What is the latest? Is it moving? Has it been passed at the 11th hour in a room of three while the rest are out to lunch? Or campaigning? Or serving on some committee elsewhere?

I thought this thread would be an alert medium keeping us informed of any activity.

Am I wrong?

-Andy
 
Although not a LEO, I'm a Life Member of LEAA. I have to say that while I do support the notion of having all LEO's having national carry priveleges, it's more because I want national reciprocity for all CHL holders, not just LEO's. I'd feel much better about supporting HR 218 if I knew they were in my corner on this important issue.

I appreciate the position LEAA takes on a law abiding citizen's right to carry (they are strongly in favor), but I can't say I'm assured they'll pursue national reciprocity for citizens like myself after they win their fight. I guess my take on it is that where gun freedoms are concerned, our victories tend to be won incrementally. I don't like it, but that does appear to be the case. :mad:
 
Right now, private citizens with CCW permits can carry more places then sworn officers. That's right...while many states offer reciprocity for the holders of CCWs few recognize a peace officer from another state. If they do, it's usually only in a duty status. To my knowledge only Indiana grants peace officers from other states right to carry. So I don't see how this is making peace officers more equal.

Like DMF said, it's an important first step to your CCW being as universally recognized as your drivers license.

Jeff
 
Jeff, the answer for the situation you described is for police officers to get a CCW permit for the state they live in.

It should be easy to do unless they live in a state that doesn't give out CCW permits, in which case they need to change state law not federal law.
 
Yeah, thats the answer, get a CCW for your state

My CCW, which I had before I became a LEO, and continue to keep amounted to paying a fee, passing a background check and having three people get called by a sheriff, who asked.......is this guy ok. No firearms test, no knowledge of when I can or can not use my firearms......nothing.

Now, to become a LEO I had to pass a background check, pass a physical check, pass a pysch test......undergo countless tests of my knowledge of both civil and criminal law, to include the use of force and deadly force. When I can use it, when I can't. Pass a firearms qualification (yearly or quarterly depending upon your state and/or dept regs) undergo yearly state and department legal updates, etc.....

Which of the above do you think makes me more qualified to carry? And if I have to use my weapon in another state, everything I do will be based upon the fact that I am a LEO, not someone carrying under a CCW.

Now before the crazies come out of the closet and jump all over my posting, I think a CCW......your CCW, my CCW, should be recognized by every state, much like drivers licenses are.
 
I think this phrase is the most important::

The provision drew the ire of Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr.,
Wisconsin Republican and committee chairman.
"I believe it violates the principles of federalism and undermines the
authorities of the states," said Mr. Sensenbrenner, the only Republican who
did not support the bill.

So why does this bill violate states rights and the AWB (extention) dosen't?! I plan to throw this right back in their faces :cuss:

Jim
 
Steve in PA,

It sucks that LEO's have to comply with the same laws the rest of us do, doesn't it?

If the law says you need a CCW permit, then you need a CCW permit.

I have a lot of experience fishing. Been doing it all my life. Still, I have to have a license to do it. Too bad, but its just the way it is.
 
The only possible good I see in this bill is that it might pave the way for some sort of equal protection case for national CCW.

A thousand pardons to any of the LEO's on this board, but it doesn't matter how many hoops you had to jump through in order to get your badge, you're still citizens, and not, therefore, entitled to any special governmental privileges or freedoms from the infringements of rights.
 
The only possible good I see in this bill is that it might pave the way for some sort of equal protection case for national CCW.
I doubt it.

Nothing against LEOs, but I imagine most of them will be "I got mine" and won't fight as hard for nationwide CCW for the 'rest' of us.

How many poor Americans (who don't pay ANY income tax) do you see fighting for tax cuts??
 
But to which standard will I be held to if I am involved in an out of state deadly force encounter?

So, if I'm just a citizen, then why am I required to "jump through the hoops"?
 
The bill will never make it thru the Senate. If it does - as one poster already noted - it will probably have the AWB renewal attached to it which will kill it in the house. The bill is DOA.

That said I believe the bill is unconstitutional as it is in direct opposition to the 10th Amendment which reads:

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


In addition I am of the opinion that it clashes with the constitutional prohibition against laws creating special classes of people which this bill clearly does.

If by some miniscule chance the bill does make it to law - it will IMO be instantly challenged by many state AG's - even pro-gun ones in shall issue states - and most definitely by the AG's of Ca, Md, Ma, Il and Wi.
 
So, if I'm just a citizen, then why am I required to "jump through the hoops"?

The hoops are part of your job application, and your state or community requires them of someone who wants your job.

And frankly, I find any LEO who writes, "So, if I'm just a citizen..." really disconcerting. I dimly recall a time (well, maybe I've just read about it) when the state existed to serve the people...
 
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