HR1022 as a sales tactic; whose side are dealers on?

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

grimjaw

Member
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
3,356
Location
Arkansas
I'm starting to see online firearms dealers touting certain items as HOT because, hey, HR1022 is coming, get it while you can! It leaves me to wonder sometimes just what they're thinking. Do they care one way or the other if the legislation is passed, figuring that they'll sell just as many single shot rifles (crossbows, longbows, knives, fingernail sharpeners, etc) afterwards? Are they playing up fear of future availability as a sales tactic?

Thoughts?

jm
 
1) A lot of folks made a LOT of money from the buying hysteria during the Clinton years.

2) A lot of folks lost a LOT of money when the AWB sunsetted (thinks in large part to the evil republicans...).

3) They're not thinking that _this_ time the guys on the coasts may actually sit down, and if the thing actually makes it anywhere as legislation, just flat out make the things illegal to own. As in "You have this, so turn it in."

I don't think 1022 has a chance. What I'm worried about is going to come AFTER the 2008 elections.
 
I have always thought 1022 was ridiculous, and not just from a 2A supporter perspective.

The first AWB at least, somewhat, correctly stated what a semi auto 'assault weapon' clone was (short barreled, pistol grap, folding stock). But this new bill just seemigly bans many semi-autos at random.

M1 Garand? M1 Carbine? How often are these old rifles used in crimes? I am going to guess that an M1 Garand has not been used in a crimes since at least the 1970s. That is why the BATF's list of C&R weapons mentions 'unliklely to be used in a crime'....hence why C&R holders can ship them in the mail. Trying to ban anything is bad, but these? It just seems like a gun grabbing scheme.

I think the best way to combat this is inform the public that they are not assault weapons. There are no select fire switches. No automatic fire. If you ask your average city-going liberal they probably think that they are though.

EDIT: in response to grimjaw's reply-

Yes, I think this is a marketing ploy. The dealers KNOW this wont pass, in any form, its just too stupid.
 
I think the best way to combat this is inform the public that they are not assault weapons.

Appreciate your thoughts on it, but I don't want the thread to drift from the original post RE: dealers and their approach to the legislation.

jm
 
it seems the price of ak and ar mags has went up to $30.00 and $35.00 respectively at my local dealer in the last week.

i wonder why that is?:rolleyes:

oh well, at least they're still cheap on the infernal net.:D
 
That's shortsighted on the dealer's part. What would you rather have happen? Keep "assault weapons" legal and thus a money- making part of your inventory, or instead make a bunch of quick cash before a ban that would wipe out an entire product- and profit- category? As a dealer, I'd take the first one.


I know I'm getting off- topic, but I believe that those who are assuming that the AWB2 won't pass are making a MAJOR mistake. Really, the times have never been better for such a ban. If you thought that we had an anti- gun culture in the early 90's, you're in for a surprise. The anti- gunners have had time to fit their agenda into even more parts of the media and pop- culture.

The country just elected a Democratic congress in to power. This isn't too bad, until you realize that Nancy Pelosi and other anti- 2A politicians are in the higher leadership of the legislatures. This puts them in a position to apply pressure to those who would either be on the fence or on our side to vote against our interests through things like pork and threats to not support future bills.

An ignorant American public is another problem. When I say to people around me that I am against banning assault weapons, they look at me like I'm from Mars or something. The informed are in the minority on this issue. If you were to go to the streets of a major American city and ask passersby what an assault weapon was, few would know the definition provided by AWBI and fewer yet would know the real story behind the bans. They vote accordingly.

And then you have an ignorant Congress. Some representatives are just as uninformed as the average American you quizzed on the street.

Not good.
 
HR 1022 now has 33 cosponsors.

I just threw that in for the "no way in hell this is going anywhere" crowd.

Do dealers want an AWB? no.

Will capitalistic dealers (anyone who wants to make a profit is a capitalist) use the potential of an AWB to sell more product? Sure, why not?

Should dealers who go overboard and raise prices excessively be punished by their customers and lose business? But of course.

If you sell firewood, and all the news reports mention that a harsh winter is coming up, you use that to help you sell more wood. Same thing these dealers are doing. If they are pushing the price of USGI AR mags up to $30.00, they are not going to sell many magazines as most sources are still reasonable and the supply is still solvent.
 
33 sponsors for that thing aren't a whole heckuva lot. I don't think we've got a lot to worry about now. I _do_ think we've got a lot to worry about in 2008.

As for a new AWB...

The last one brought us "tacticality." Face it - there was NOT a fascination among the firearms community with military-style semi-autos, etc., prior to the ban. After the ban, people wanted 'em. So much so that they bolted all sorts of black plastic crap onto other rifles...

The last ban also brought us a resurgence in folks shooting accurately. There was a lot more fascination in the accurate long-range rifle shot. To me, that is the most interesting - there weren't a lot of pre-ban AK-47s. But following the ban, the thumbhole stock ones were selling like cold beer at a hot baseball game. And folks were also learning how to shoot single shot rifles very accurately.

I'm guessing that more than a few of the smarter politicians looked at it and thought - "Gee... We told 'em they couldn't have something, so they went out and got around it. And they're also learning how to use sniper rifles. This isn't good."
 
After the Democrats won in Nov. '06 I went out and bought a Bushmaster M4orgery, just 'cause (A.) I could, and (B.) because I knew that the liberals really, really hate us having those types of weapons.:neener: :neener:
I have heard theories that the D's won't push a new AWB on us until they get a Dem. president in office in '09.
Then along comes H.R. 1022. Which didn't have any sponsors, so it wasn't going anywhere. Except, now it has 33.
As for dealers and what side they're on???
Hey. They are on the side of PROFIT. Do you think good wishes keep them in business?????
Sorry if that bothers anyone......
 
What some folks aren't realizing is that HR1022 (or a similar bill) is _always_ put on the table by McCarthy. It's what she does.

This time people have noticed it, and what with an ever-increasing internet buzz, it is probably getting far more attention than it would have otherwise.
 
If you have a finite amount of resources (i.e., favors you can call in so your ol' lady lets you drive to the capital, that sorta thing), you may wanna hold off unless the thing actually gets rolling. Because I think that next year things are going to start to get _really_ interesting.

It doesn't cost anything to send an e-mail tho, and you can send a coupla letters for under a dollar.

But right now, and I've been harping on this for a little while, I think we're best served in pushing a "gun control is just generally bad for re-election" theme. If they hear that often enough, they're gonna believe it. Don't threaten 'em, and say you'll never vote for 'em again - just remind them gently (that way it is more likely to taken seriously) that gun control has really hurt the democratic party in the past.
 
If the "gun control is bad for re-election" idea were true, people like McCarthy would have been out of business a long time ago.

Bogie, that theory might work here in Missouri (I know of about 3 students at my high school that are for GC, no one else), but when you go to some place like New York where people are too concerned about "quality of life", the game changes.

Too bad they feel the need to improve the quality of life in that part of the country. I thought NYC was the best city in the world? Us Midwesterners are the ones who really need to improve ourselves. Us uncultured, redneck, uneducated, provincial Midwesterners:rolleyes: .
 
I'm starting to see online firearms dealers touting certain items as HOT because, hey, HR1022 is coming, get it while you can! It leaves me to wonder sometimes just what they're thinking. Do they care one way or the other if the legislation is passed, figuring that they'll sell just as many single shot rifles (crossbows, longbows, knives, fingernail sharpeners, etc) afterwards? Are they playing up fear of future availability as a sales tactic?

Thoughts?

jm
Click to expand...

JM,

IMO, some dealers care because they are good people who are informed about RKBA; while others (very few) are more like Nicholas Cage in Lord of War - they would give a child an RPG if it fit their purpose.

I think that all of the bad dealers play it up to the extreme, while the better dealers do not or only in a limited circumstance (IE customer comes in, scared of a future ban). This would be a good time to figure out who you will shop with in the future, ban or no ban - I won't give a dollar to the two local tacticool shops because of this reason.

RE the economics of it all - great question. Does anyone remember what pre-ban AR15s were going for, in say, 1997? It seems to me that Bushmaster post-ban was ca. 850USD for a new rifle and 1500USD + for a used Colt pre-ban. In this respect, a market will still exist for the dealers, if a ban should take place. IE - they can price gouge the public in the months before the ban, and then continue to do so indefinately thereafter with customers pawning/selling their pre-bans. The guy coming in with the rifle he paid 850USD for new, will be more than happy to get 800USD for it used - the dealer can then resell it for at least 1500USD...

The odds are always 'on the house' when it comes to business/customer interactions, so they can only increase profits by playing peoples fear of a ban. :(

Lets keep the discussion to the OP questions - HR1022 is discussed in many other threads.
 
Maybe it's not that gun dealers support the ban, it's just that many dealers aren't above hyping up the desirability of their product.

Aside from ethical scruples, why would a dealer NOT try to scare a customer into buying now rather than tomorrow?

-MV
 
There are dealers who hype the "AWB" even when there isn't one under active consideration. HR1022 is a dead bill and they're hyping it. I've seen them using these bills to hype all kinds of stuff that have nothing to do with what these bills cover. Don't believe the hype.
 
I'm sure there are many traditional dealer types who have no love for the black rifle crowd who would be on the side of AWB2. These same folks might just delight in rogering people out of a few more dollars for common parts and supplies.

I think though that most gun shop owners are strongly 2A and would oppose this bill on principle. If it passes and scarcity or fear of scarcity ensues, you could not fault them for raising prices.

And I'll point out, again that the Dems did not win so much as the Reps blew the game through bad decisions like the online gaming bill being fronted by a Rep and passing just two weeks beofre the election. This jammed up a lot of people and pissed them off. A lot of these folks changed sides or just did not vote for their local incumbent. So the Dems backed into the win column and I do not think they have much real traction with the public as a whole.
 
Not only online, just went to two gun shows...

DPMS guy is freaking everyone out with "buy now, buy now" :rolleyes:

Romanian AKM pistols for $800...

lol... there's what maybe $40 worth of materials & labor there... $760 worth of BS and hype...

My co-worker from Africa laughs at any AKM priced over $300... "That much and it isn't fully automatic" LOL... He had Russian AKM's, his wife even had a Russian underfolding AKM... and they were very inexpensive.
 
It's about demographics.

New York, California, northern Illinois, etc., etc., are areas where the people, overall, favor gun control. Hence, they elect gun control congresscritters. In the flyover states, we overall do not favor gun control. So we don't elect those folks.

And they just realized that gun control was generally bad for re-election just a few elections ago, so give them time, and keep pushing the concept. The internet has been VERY bad for them - we don't just talk in gun stores and at the range anymore. As disorganized as the overall gun culture is, we're a thousand times more organized than we were in 1992.

It isn't gonna affect the Schumers or the McCarthys, but just about all of the rest of 'em are gonna think REALLY HARD about it... If it works out well (for us), Schumer, McCarthy, and the rest can introduce their stuff all they want, and nothing will happen to it.
 
Cosponsors
Rep. Gary Ackerman [D-NY]
Rep. Howard Berman [D-CA]
Rep. Lois Capps [D-CA]
Rep. William Clay [D-MO]
Rep. Joseph Crowley [D-NY]
Rep. Diana DeGette [D-CO]
Rep. William Delahunt [D-MA]
Rep. Anna Eshoo [D-CA]
Rep. Chaka Fattah [D-PA]
Rep. Bob Filner [D-CA]
Rep. Barney Frank [D-MA]
Rep. Raul Grijalva [D-AZ]
Rep. Mazie Hirono [D-HI]
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D-TX]
Rep. Patrick Kennedy [D-RI]
Rep. Zoe Lofgren [D-CA]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D-NY]
Rep. Carolyn Maloney [D-NY]
Rep. Edward Markey [D-MA]
Rep. James McGovern [D-MA]
Rep. Martin Meehan [D-MA]
Rep. Bradley Miller [D-NC]
Rep. James Moran [D-VA]
Rep. William Pascrell [D-NJ]
Rep. Edward Pastor [D-AZ]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D-IL]
Rep. Adam Schiff [D-CA]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D-CA]
Rep. Louise Slaughter [D-NY]
Rep. Ellen Tauscher [D-CA]
Rep. Christopher Van Hollen [D-MD]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D-FL]
Rep. Robert Wexler [D-FL]


Do we Detect a patter here?

Looks like the usual suspects to me.

As for the
If the "gun control is bad for re-election" idea were true, people like McCarthy would have been out of business a long time ago.
Click to expand...
argument, look at their DISTRICTS, people!

Gun control IS bad for election/re-election in the aggregate at the national level, but in these whack jobs' districts, it probably scores brownie points and makes for good chit chat at the local socialist metting spots.

As for the dealers, yeah, it's sort of a "Lord of War" situation. Most dealers want to make money. Even if they think 1022 is going nowhere, they'll still hype it to make a few extra bucks. If they were REALLY smart, they'd play both sides, and hype it, drum up some hysteria, and then be visibly active in opposition. This would achieve two things, it gets people into panic mode over the legislation, and thus makes them more willing to part with more of their money, and actively fighting it adds reputation to the dealer. Admit it, you all would prefer to buy from someone who supports the cause, all else being equal.
 
Guys, there are also "gun people" dealers, and "in it only for the money" dealers. The "gun people" dealers are probably the ones that we both love and hate, and the "in it only for the money" folks are the ones who don't stay in business all that long...

A few years back, my favorite gun shop had a customer walk in, and try to buy a shotgun. He tried it out by putting the barrel to his head, and then trying to reach the trigger. This sorta alarmed the folks, and they asked him why he wanted it. Yup. So they refused to sell him a gun, called the cops, and then started calling other gun stores to tell 'em not to sell him anything. Until they got to one fellow...

"Oh, hey thanks - I'll make sure I don't take a check from him - he'll have to pay cash."

Yeech...

I think the fellow walked into some interstate traffic, so it didn't end well, but that one guy just really frosted my donuts...
 
Do they care one way or the other if the legislation is passed
Click to expand...

You know, as a gun dealer, I really resent that.

I could list here what I try to do for RKBA, but it would be totally wasted. Those of you who know me, know me, those of you who don't, can go ahead and assume that I'm just a money grubbing scumbag.

I've spent hundreds of hours trying to promote the RKBA, most of it without getting a fricking dime. But don't worry, here on the internet, I'm the Lord of War. I roll around on pallets of money.

You know what, AWB II passes, and I'm out of business. Period. Bankrupt. I run an evil black rifle store. 90% of what I sell would be banned by 1022.

So you think some of us don't give a damn?

Whatever.
 
Rep. William Clay [D-MO]
Click to expand...

I was confused for a bit about this guy. Looked him up his district is pretty much the city of St. Louis.

Rep. Edward Pastor [D-AZ]
Click to expand...

This guy is mostly urban as well.

Rep. Raul Grijalva [D-AZ]
Rep. Bradley Miller [D-NC]
Click to expand...

These two though, have big chunks of ruralness in their districts, Though Miller has Raleigh and Greensboro in his district it looks to be mostly rural. So I'm confused by these two.

Are there other Reps who do not represent urban pest holes in otherwise conservative states that support gun control?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
New York: "157 shops, dealers sell guns in CNY"
Replies
0
Views
628
cuchulainn
C
C
  • Locked
Maryland: "Despair Fills Md. Gun Dealers"
Replies
9
Views
2K
Capital Punishment
C
W
  • Locked
URGENT: State "BATF" Bill Passes Ga. Senate
Replies
13
Views
806
WAGCEVP
W
C
  • Locked
USA: "Quindlan: NRA Holds Gun to Senate to Give Firearm Industry Shield From Suits"
Replies
2
Views
411
Feanaro
Feanaro
hso
  • Locked
Wall Street Journal attacks pocket knives
Replies
15
Views
2K
WolfMansDad
W
Back
Top