Humidity management in safe, or "Ugh!!!"

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Griblik

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Hi all. Want to probe everyone's opinions on how to best manage the humidity level and rust issues in my gun safe.

Quick back story, just for rant's sake if nothing else cause I'm super frustrated with my situation. Was being a bad boy and keeping all my guns piled in my closet waiting to get stolen for several years. A couple months back, got a great deal on a nice Sentry gun safe. However, I was still living in my apartment at the time, and knew I'd be getting married and moving to a new house soon, and it was heavy as crap, so didn't want to deal with lugging it into my apartment just to move it again two months later, so it sat in my dad's barn for a bit. Fast forward, married now, in the new house, finally being a good boy and keeping my guns all locked up where they should be, and seriously within a week, everything went to crap. Surface rust on a Savage .22, Mossberg 500, SKS, Chinese SxS, a pellet gun, and my PPK. Basically everything but my Glocks, which I love for a whole new reason now. Lots of rust and very minor pitting on an otherwise pristine Winchester 94. (I'm telling myself that one's just "patina".) But then - egads. Great big streak of rust and pitting and kick in the junk along the left side of the slide of my Kimber Tactical Pro. My freakin' crown jewel, favorite gun ever, firearm love of my life looks like crap now.

Back in the days when my guns lived in my closet, I would clean them after a shooting session, but would never take any great care to keep them oiled down at all times, and never ever developed a spot of rust, even after carrying them in IWB leather holsters. Now, just a few days in my safe has made my collection look like I stored them in a mud puddle.

Upon this discovery, I immediately wiped everything down with a heavy dose of Hoppe's lubricating oil, and especially drenched the pitting on my beloved Kimber. Let it sit for a few days, more surface rust. So, I bought a Goldenrod dehumidifier and some Remington brand "rust inhibitor" wipes, wiped everything down again. Rust seems less prolific, but is still forming on my Winchester and my Mossberg. Fortunately, my Kimber seems to be safe so long as I continue to wipe it down like twice a day. Obviously, this is not a sustainable situation, and generally no bueno.

Is this just a fact of life with safes?? Does everyone go through this? Am I doing something wrong? I've read about the silica dessicant some people use, and maybe I need to use that as well?? On a whim that I don't particularly expect to do anything, I just now put a bowl of rice in the safe, thinking it might suck up some moisture that was somehow "trapped" in the safe? Does it normally take a few days for Goldenrods to get the safe up to temp and do any good?

I'm totally distraught about my Kimber. I've had it like six months, carried it all the time, carried it in the rain, carried it in the mountains, carried it at the freakin' beach, and never had this problem before. After a day of carrying it now those pitted spots are the color of a tin can from the bottom of the ocean. I talked to Kimber already, wondering if maybe the finish was somehow flawed to have rusted so quickly and so badly out of nowhere, and they basically said I was dumb, and that Kimbers can only be expected to survive in hermetically sealed underground chambers submersed in WD-40. No, they didn't say that, but they said it was all my own fault, need to store differently, need to keep covered in oil, need to basically never touch it or carry it or shoot it. Finish damage "not covered under warranty", $50 to refinish it, but I'm hesitant to do that until I figure out how to make my safe a happy place for my flock, so it isn't ruined again three days after getting it back.

For those of you waiting for the cliff notes, the preceding post can be summarized as "Ugh!!! Help!!!" Any instructions/advice/condolences are greatly appreciated. Gonna go cry over my poor rusted Kimber now.
 
Goldenrod, lightbulb (kept on)

Move it closer to the furnace and away form the wet (guess you can put it on the other side of the Idaho boarder :neener:)

Go look for crystal kitty litter, it's silica desiccant, also look for VOC rust inhibitors, midway and brownells sell them.
 
Hah, yeah, away from the wet would make an awful long trip to put my guns away at night. "Furnace" is a single heat pump in the middle of the kitchen in the middle of the house, the wife probably won't agree that my safe needs to live next to the fridge. Is a lightbulb in addition to a Goldenrod going to help, do you think? Is it just a question of the Goldenrod not putting out enough heat? At that point, is a second Goldenrod a better solution, or does the lightbulb do something the Goldenrod doesn't?
 
Humidity in air is related to air temperature. Warmer air can hold more moisture. So if we have air with a fixed amount of moisture in it, and we warm the air, the air is now less humid (as % relative humidity). With a lower %RH, it is less likely to cause rusting.

A lightbulb is probably the cheapest and easiest way to provide a little heat to the safe.

Anything else you can do to keep the safe warmer than ambient temperature will be insurance against rust. Condensation always forms on the coldest objects first.

Keep it against an interior wall, not an exterior one. Nearer a heat vent or register is better.

The dessicant idea is a good one too. Rather than raising air temps to lower the RH, it simply removes water from the air. In addition to silicagel, gypsum, oven dried, is a good cheap dessicant.

Probably what happened is that the safe linings absorbed some moisture during their time in the barn. That moisture is now making the inside of your safe quite humid. It might be an idea to open the safe and direct a fan forced heater at it for a couple days. Close enough to significantly warm the safe, with the door open, warm air blowin into it. That will drive out any remaining moisture in the materials inside...

Sorry for the damage you've experienced so far. I know it's heartbreaking to see that first haze on a prized possession...

J
 
I bought a 100 pack of desiccants and put them on the bottom of the safe in an open package. When I go for a trip I pull one or two out and stick it in the gun case.

You need to get the Kimber refinished soon because once corrosion starts it does not end till the gun is rusted away. Do it now before the pitting gets worse or you will regret it. $50 is a bargain and though it likely won't look new it won't look worse either.

The SKS and Mossberg I would sand blast and paint if the rust is bad, neither is a high quality gun and the metal won't stand up to the corrosion long and the cost of bluing is likely not worth it. I have found plenty of SKSs that were stored in mud puddles. A little sand blasting and some paint and they were as good as they ever were. The others might require the work of competent gun smith.
 
Probably what happened is that the safe linings absorbed some moisture during their time in the barn. That moisture is now making the inside of your safe quite humid. It might be an idea to open the safe and direct a fan forced heater at it for a couple days.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly.
 
Living here in FL, the safe is inside, has 3 big dessicant boxes AND a golden rod running in it. The boxes need the dry-out treatment every 2 months or so. I previously lived in NV where the safe was in a garage with NO rust-protection - never needed it.

Even with all that protection, I still check each gun every month or two (the ones I don't fire much) to make sure nothing is happening rust-wise.
 
Wow!

First off........ Very sorry to hear about the problems that you're having with rust and the semi-loss of the "pride in ownership" that we all have for out prized weapons collections.

My friend stored his guns & safe in an old, un-heated barn. The only thing he did was run a Golden Rod heater in the safe all year round. Never had a rust problem.

I have never been to Oregon but my parents lived in Portland for a couple of years just before I was born & they told me that it's more than a little humid with lots of rainy weather. Was it very different humidity conditions in your apartment than in your new home?

I use those silica bags that can be re-used after a short stint in the over (follow directions carefully) and have no problems with rust in my cheap safe.

Our humidity must be only a fraction of Oregon's because for years I stored my guns in a closet with absolutely no protection from humidity and have never had any rust whatsoever.

I've been no help but I sure wish you good luck in the future and hope that some of the experienced THR's can help - especially those who live in the humid states like Oregon and Florida.
 
Get a couple of small buckets of Damp-Rid from Wal-Mart and stick those in there, perhaps on the shelf, but somewhere where they won't be jostled and spilled. Those will take care of the humidity, and the Goldenrod will help. The substance absorbs moisture from the air and drains into the bottom of the container; you just have to empty the liquid occasionally and refill the crystals. They work very well, and I live in a humid climate.
 
It is my understanding that most fire rated safes have a lining that contains moisture. It is this moisture that helps keep the safe semi-cool during a fire.

As suggested, I'd leave the safe door open for a week or so and run a fan to help dry it out some.

Also, you can buy a small electronic indoor temperature/humidity meter at Radio Shack, Target, etc. Put this inside your safe, this way you can safely measure the effectiveness of your goldenrod/dessicant treatments instead of judging this by how rusty your guns are.
 
two jumbo desicant bean bags (16 unit size) in my small RSC.

two VCI emmitters stuck to the inside of the RSC door.

run dehumidifier in basement July and August.
 
Yes, your current problem is actually the safe itself. It is a wet box, likely with more ambient moisture than any open air environment. You need to spend the next week drying out your safe before you continue to store firearms in it.
 
once corrosion starts it does not end till the gun is rusted away. Do it now before the pitting gets worse or you will regret it.

Is this true?? I've kept oil or a spot of grease on small rusted areas and pitting on some guns that I bought used and never had a problem.
 
Is this true?? I've kept oil or a spot of grease on small rusted areas and pitting on some guns that I bought used and never had a problem.
Click to expand...

Once the protective surface is breached the metal will be open to as rust is permeable to oxygen and water. It will continue to corrode unless protected again. If you keep oil on there you are protecting the weak areas by displacing the water and oxygen. If you stopped putting it on there it would start to rust again unless you protect it in some other way (bluing, paint etc).
 
Everybody, thanks for all the information. It sounds like the consensus was the safe's time in the barn is the culprit here. The situation as of now, safe emptied, goldenrod still turned on, space heater sitting just outside of safe, a bag of "Dry-Z-Air" from Bi-mart in there right now, (plus my bowl of rice still, for good measure or maybe just good luck), and a rechargeable dehumidifier on order from Cabelas. Currently my closet has about the feel of a sauna, and my glasses fog up every time I walk in there, so there's definitely some moisture being released. I guess my non-scientific test for now will be to say when my glasses don't fog up anymore, things are better? I need to get a humidity meter to better test. However, I can already see that there's a bit of "dew" sort of collecting at the bottom of the "Dry-Z-Air" dish, so I think it's doing some good. Anything else I should be doing at this point? Closet door open or closed, would you guys think? Better to create a hotter area around safe or just to heat up closet and to some degree whole rest of room with door open allowing moisture to escape better?
 
i generally tend to agree that it's the time the safe spent in the barn that has caused your problems. to answer your question further i'd keep your closet door opened to let the moisture vent into the house a bit more, sounds like you've got your problem pretty much under wraps though.
on a side note: can't believe it was so moist your glasses fog up now, you definetly found your problem

-kirk
 
The real problem is the safe itself. The "fire retardant" in these safes is ordinary gypsum-based drywall paneling. This stuff grabs and holds moisture whenever it becomes cool and moist, then releases moisture when it warms up. If you live in central or western Oregon then that's a daily cycle, effectively turning your "safe" into a moisture magnet.

The ways to change this are:
1) Stabilize the internal temperature by putting a permanent heat source inside the safe. Bear in mind that the moisture has to go somewhere, so the safe will need to be left cracked open until the internal humidity drops.
2) Desiccants. Put in materials that intercept the moisture before it gets to your guns. Only works if the air can circulate inside your safe.
3) Air Circulation. Tightly-packed safes are rust traps.
-By minimizing temperature and humidity changes, keeping fresh desiccants in the safe, and making sure that the air can circulate inside the safe, even gypsum-lined safes can be kept from destroying your guns.
 
once corrosion starts it does not end till the gun is rusted away. Do it now before the pitting gets worse or you will regret it.

Is this true?? I've kept oil or a spot of grease on small rusted areas and pitting on some guns that I bought used and never had a problem.
Click to expand...

No, it's not exactly true. It IS true if you do nothing. If you protect it, then no problem as you stated. Rusting/oxidation is a straight forward chemical reactions and it needs two things to keep it going - the reactants, and a minimum temperature. Put a film of oil or other protectant on it and separate the reactants, you have no reaction. Drop the temperature past the minimum threshhold and it will also stop. But freezing your guns isn't terribly practical.
 
Probably what happened is that the safe linings absorbed some moisture during their time in the barn. That moisture is now making the inside of your safe quite humid. It might be an idea to open the safe and direct a fan forced heater at it for a couple days. Close enough to significantly warm the safe, with the door open, warm air blowin into it.
Click to expand...
+1.
I would worry about the light bulb idea, they generate a LOT of heat in a small, enclosed, insulated area. I'd go with a tub of "Damp-Rid" and empty the water out daily.
Move the safe to a temp controlled area. Avoid swings in temperature (garage).
Moisture "Forms" on metal because it gives up it's heat faster than the air around it, just like "Dew". Once you get this under control, the golden rod should be fine.
 
I discovered this afternoon that we actually got an Oregon Scientific "Weather Station" as a wedding present that I knew nothing about, my wife's had it set up in another room of the house. It was showing ambient humidity in the house as being 66%. I moved it into my closet on top of my safe a couple hours ago, and it's now showing 30% humidity. (And 94 degrees!) There's also a good amount of moisture collected in the "Dry-Z-Air" tray. My glasses no longer fog up upon entering the closet, and my rice even feels a little moist!! I think the plan will be to continue to run the space heater over night, then maybe tomorrow seal the safe up with the Dry-Z-Air and the Goldenrod and the sensor, (but no guns just yet), and get an idea for what it's going to show for humidity after a few hours. I'll keep everyone updated.. Thanks again for all the support.
 
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