Hunting Rifle Zeroing

[ExAgoradzo]

I'm not talking about making sub-MOA target shots at 1000 yards; what I want to know is if I am practicing with lead bullets consistently (say 30-06 165 grain) then buy a box of copper of the same grain weight (yes, I live in the socialist state of CA still...), at up to 300 yards, am I going to notice a sufficiently different zero that I wont be able to bring Bambi's dad home in the back of my truck?

 

[jbkebert]

All depends on the gun. I have a couple rifles that shoot dead on accurate with Hornady custom ammo. If I switch to Winchester or Federal POI shifts one to two inches left and two inches low for the Winchester and high for the federal.

My .300 Winchester with a 180 grain Hornady Interbond for zero and switch to a 180 grain GMX is less than a 1/4" in change at 100 yards. About 3/4" at 200 yards.

Bottom line get close with the bullet you want to practice with. It's fine to get on paper and get close with target ammo. But run a few rounds of your hunting ammo to verify before venturing into the woods.

 

[T Bran]

It really depends on the individual rifle my 30-06 is within an inch between my 150grain pull downs and my 130grain TTSX. My pardners .308 is 4'' different between the same two bullets the TTSX is low left from the 150s.
He just keeps it zeroed for paper and readjusts during season for the more pricey ammo.
T

 

[Sheepdog1968]

You will need to confirm zero.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

SheepDog1968: "I think Thor's hammer was an 45-70 lever action loaded with Garrett cartridges."

I've been looking for that quote for the last month or so: I just bought an 1895 GG and want to laser a Thor's Hammer on the leather ammo carrier. 'Cept, I stopped at the CorBon 460 grain. Two of those (on top of the other shooting that day) was enough for me .

 

[Bushpilot]

Are you talking about the point of impact of cast lead bullets vs factory loads?
You're not going to be able, even with gas checks to drive the 165 gr lead bullets anywhere near as fast as factory 165 gr. 30/06 loads so the trajectory is going to be completely different, especially out at 300 yards. Yes it is going to be enough of a difference to miss a deer at 300 yrds.

 

[gunner69]

Like the man said..... if you switch ammo you need to confirm Zero. Every barrel is different. Good Luck but do confirm before you hunt......

 

[Dr.Rob]

Nope, cast bullets aren't going to shoot where jacketed bullets do. Better to buy several boxes of hunting ammo as you can afford it, zero it in with that and know your hold over/under from 50-300 yards.

Shooting cast bullets from a 30 cal is possible, you just can't drive them anywhere near as fast as a jacketed bullet. It's not much cheaper to load up good lead bullets than jacketed anyway so you're not saving a lot of $$ even if you're doing it in bulk.

Buy a good 'starter' ammo like 150 gr Federal American Eagle (usually loaded with Sierra game kings) or Remington green boxed core-lokt or Winchester power point and don't look back. All are good ammo, all will kill a deer, all are usually less than $15 a box.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

I do understand what you are saying: and I accept that.
But these handloads I am working with are all JHPs. It is just that I have to use all copper because CA says I must when I am hunting. That is the source of misunderstanding.
Last Fall, I did shoot 3 of them at the 100 yard range to zero just before I left: unfortunately, I wasn't able to shoot any in the field to give a 'good test' on Bambi's dad.
What I was hoping to understand from this question was actually answered pretty quickly: that the difference can be from negligible to substantial pretty quickly depending on the ammo, therefore I must re-zero right before I go.
Thanks guys.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Re-read your hunting regulations. I doubt they are insisting on a full metal jacket bullet. More likely they will require an expanding bullet of some type with a copper jacket.

(California has some really odd laws, read them carefully)

 

[dubya450]

I've wondered that too and always figured that the point of impact would be different because as far as I know a copper bullet that weighs 150 is longer than a lead bullet that weighs 150 which might change how the rifling stabilizes the bullet changing the POI. But I'm no expert so don't quote me on that.

 

[jmr40]

Re-read your hunting regulations. I doubt they are insisting on a full metal jacket bullet. More likely they will require an expanding bullet of some type with a copper jacket.

I might be wrong, but believe California bans lead for all hunting. That means non-toxic shotgun shells for everything, not just waterfowl. Also only the solid copper bullets such as Barnes and the Hornady GMX are allowed for big game hunting.

Not sure if this is the entire state, or just certain areas. This is why the OP wants to practice with cheaper lead bullets and only use the GMX bullets when hunting.

I'm in the early stages of working on loads for the Barnes bullets for my 30-06. The Barnes TTSX 150 and Hornady 150 SST have very similar BC's and I can shoot them to very close to the same velocity. So far there is not enough difference in point of impact between the 2 in my rifle to matter out to 300 yards. I plan to practice with the much cheaper SST's and hunt with the TTSX's once I get my loads exactly where I want them. Can't guarantee what will happen with your rifle, but if you handload you can probably taylor the loads to be a pretty close match.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

Because I live in the 'A' zone (CA condor area) we can only hunt with 100% copper bullets. At the range I use the lead based JHPs. As said above weird laws. I don't hunt waterfowl but here there are so many laws (steele shot being only one of them) that I've decided just to stick with upland game, deer, and boar.
I would love to continue to rag on my state's laws but alas someone's got to work to pay for this fun.

 

[adelbridge]

you owe it to the animal to practice with the exact same round you are going to hunt with. At the range bench 1" off at 100 yards is 3" off at 300 yards. Factor in a hunting rest under stressed hunting conditions and you could have all kinds of chaos. If a deer of a life time steps out at 300 yards do you want to be confidently dialed in?

 

[Ar180shooter]

Nope, cast bullets aren't going to shoot where jacketed bullets do. Better to buy several boxes of hunting ammo as you can afford it, zero it in with that and know your hold over/under from 50-300 yards.

Shooting cast bullets from a 30 cal is possible, you just can't drive them anywhere near as fast as a jacketed bullet. It's not much cheaper to load up good lead bullets than jacketed anyway so you're not saving a lot of $$ even if you're doing it in bulk.

Buy a good 'starter' ammo like 150 gr Federal American Eagle (usually loaded with Sierra game kings) or Remington green boxed core-lokt or Winchester power point and don't look back. All are good ammo, all will kill a deer, all are usually less than $15 a box.

I don't think he's talking about using cast bullets. Regular copper jacketed SP or FMJ rounds for practice and lead free bullets for hunting.

 

[dagger dog]

Google point blank range, read how to sight in your rifle to be able to put the bullet you choose to hunt with in the vital area of the animal you plan to kill.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Ok now that I get your 'jist' I'd just buy up some bulk Barnes bullets while they are available. You already reload and can beat the cost of buying off the shelf ammo.

Certainly since you reload you can tune two loads (one traditional copper and lead and one all copper) to shoot very close to the same point of impact at 300 yards. But they won't act 'the same'. Different bullets have different ballistic coefficients.

Chances are at 165 gr and 2700-2800 fps you are looking at a 200 yard zero and a drop of 7-9 inches at 300 yards. Anything within 200 you hold on the money anything past you aim a little high. These are broad brush strokes -- not specific reloading information.

It's possible to hand craft a load that closely resembles 'factory' ammunition, but it takes time, patience and a lot of shooting in your rifle to find that 'sweet' spot that gives you the best predicatble accuracy.