M1 Garand - 50 yard zero

[BJJ223]

Can someone tell me what the ballistics would look like for a 50 yard zero on a M1 Garand (30-06)?

I have to zero at 50 yards because my old eyes have trouble at 100 yards. I am interested in knowing what the 100, 200, 300 yard drops would look like. I mostly shoot Greek CMP surplus.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[1KPerDay]

I hate to send you to this vortex of idiocy but this thread claims if you zero at 50 you can hit plates at 200 and 300 without any holdover.

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=6&t=428490

This may or may not help.

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=6&t=197829

Bottom line though IME is you'll be within 2 or 3 inches out to 300 if you zero at 50. Good enough for solid hits on anything worth shooting at IMO.

 

[1KPerDay]

This may help also

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=28798

 

[au_prospector]

Actually that sounds kind of right

If you zero at 50, then at 100 you would be hitting high. Then between 200 and 300 you would be dropping back down to zero depending on your load.

 

[BJJ223]

Thanks. Do you know how high I will be at 100 and 200 yards with the 50 yard zero?

 

[30Cal]

About 2" high at 100. Maybe a smidge low at 200.


These are generic come-ups: They work within a minute usually for most modern calibers w/ middle-of-the-road loads (e.g. ball and match ammo for 308/30-06)

2 for 2 (When you go from 100 to 200yds, put 2 MoA elevation)
3 for 3 (From 200 to 300yds, add another 3)
12 for 6 (From 300 to 600, add another 12)

 

[1KPerDay]

Generally with a service garand, not enough difference in drop to tell whether it's you or the rifle. 3-4 MOA rifles it's hard to tell. I can't personally shoot well enough to see a difference. I just hold center from 50 to 300. And I miss a lot.

 

[Robert101]

I use Strelok for a free app ballistic calculator. There are plenty of free ones available. Even Hornady has good information as well. If you post your velocity and bullet coefficient I can enter the information and post the results.

 

[artee]

For a muzzle velocity of 2750 fps, Sea level (0 ft elevation) 29.92" and 60 deg F"
Inches
50 yd 0
100yd -.2" NOTE the decimal!
200yd -5.0"
300yd -16.2"
500yd -64.1"
600yd -105"

For MOA Divide the drop from line of sight by the yardage in hundreds (ie 300 would be 3) and if you want to be truly precise, divide by the yardage in hundreds x 1.045. So for 300 yards you'd get:
16.2 /(3x1.045) = 16.2/3.135 = 5.167 or 5 1/4 MOA

or, just 5 MOA for a Standard M1 sight.

The Decimals or fractions become more important with distance, and adjusting for different pressures (altimeter settings) and temperatures, and lighting conditions.

But you won't see that...

If you can't zero at 100, How you gonna shoot 2 or 3 Hundred????

If you use a 6:00 Hold/aim point, be careful that your "bull" size is the SAME in MOA at each distance. You are, after all, with a 6:00 hold trying to get your bullet to hit center X/so many inches ABOVE where you are actually pointing (aiming).

 

[Acera]

artee are you taking into account that the bullet path may intersect the sight line twice like the others are??

 

[artee]

I don't know that the others are or are not.

Nice picture, though.

I'm taking into account it's an M1 (which therefore gives me a fixed height for the line of sight compared to the bore, or 1 inch); that's it shooting Greek Ball with an average of 2750 fps at the muzzle and a BC of about .380. OP didn't specify fall or summer, Mt Everest or the Dead Sea or from a stationary position or the waist position of a B-24 on the IP to Target run.

Smartness aside, not every situation will have "two zeros" or a portion of the trajectory above the line of sight. It's possible, to come from below, just kiss the line of sight at the zero range, and then fall away from the line of sight as you proceed down range. What you get depends on the initial conditions.

 

[Acera]

Smartness aside, not every situation will have "two zeros" or a portion of the trajectory above the line of sight. It's possible, to come from below, just kiss the line of sight at the zero range, and then fall away from the line of sight as you proceed down range. What you get depends on the initial conditions.

So you saying with the sight line 1 inch above the bore (your number) your calculations would be the result of a 50 yard zero???

I would think that 1 inch is pretty high for what you propose. The one inch angle creates a flight path like the picture and what the other posters are saying.


Take a look at Post #7 in the CMP linked thread.


I think we all understand your numbers, if the flight path of the bullet was started perfectly horizontal and we wanted to know how much it would drop at given distances, just don't see those numbers applying to what the op wants to know.



(not my picture BTW, stolen from the interwebs...............)

I don't know that the others are or are not.

You should read the posts ahead of yours, good applicable information contained in them.




.
,

 

[mshootnit]

Sight in 4" high at 100 yd. A relative who fought across France taught us this.

 

[BJJ223]

Thanks Artee. It looks like a 50 yard zero is, for all practical purposes, a 100 yard zero. So, after I zero at 50 yards, all I need to do is adjust my knob so that it is on the "100" line.

Right?

 

[artee]

BJJ223. Yes, That is what it comes down to. You could handle the zero as you suggest. I think I'd try it and see if the 'real world' matched the math. On a practical basis, you likely won't be able to see, with a true 50 yard zero that it isn't a 100 yard zero. The difference in zero's on the target will be buried in the 3 in group of the average M1. This is very much like the 25 or 50 yard zero choice for a scope sighted 22LR. There is a 1/4 inch difference between the two. You'll never see the difference unless it's a benchrest quality rifle and Ely 10X quality ammo.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

There's another option. Zero closer. A 25yd zero with a M1 is about on at 200 yd and 1-2" high at 100.

What distances are you shooting though? If you can't see to zero at 100yd, what are you shooting out at 2-300?

 

[MEHavey]

(Hopefully IAW the newly published NECO-release rules for "example QuickLoad" data use):

This is what you get for HXP-like ballistics out of a Garand zeroed at 50 -- and beyond.



NOTE: Zeroing at 25 (as suggested above) makes for a better battle-zero: ± 1" out to 150.

 

[mshootnit]

The only problem I have with short 25 yd zeroes and such is that you are not really field proofing your actual desired zero. That is not to say it couldnt work, but you are going to be field proofing at some point, either during practice or when the consequences of a miss are quite a bit higher.
I would recommend after you do your 25 yd zero and set your knob, go out and let the M1 sttetch her legs and see where you are at.

 

[agtman]

If you zero at 50, then at 100 you would be hitting high. Then between 200 and 300 you would be dropping back down to zero depending on your load.

Pretty much agree. But the OP needs to nail down TWO zeros.

Once he's zero-ed tight at 50-yds, then he needs to be sure that his M1 is zero-ed again, or is at least consistently "on" (i.e., with COM-type hits), at 200yds, 250yds, whatever.

 

[Jenrick]

Assuming the following:

.308 caliber bullet
.380 ballistic coefficent (G1 modeling)
2750 fps at the muzzle
1" sight height over bore - measure from the center of the bore to the tip of the front sight post to get this

A 50 yard zero has a second crossing at 75-80 yards.
100 yds - .3" loaw - .2 MOA low
200 yds - 5" low - 2.4 MOA low
300 yds - 16.4" low - 5.2 MOA low

This is for standard temperature, pressure, and at sea level. Your environmentals can cause a decent shift. You can run the numbers yourself at: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

As an aside, addressing the question of what distance to zero a G1 at for potential social purposes: An 8" vertical spread is pretty much the general accepted "combat effective" spread for social purposes, allowing a CoM or high thoracic hold on the torso and having the rounds track through the vital areas of the target. With a 50 yd zero, df you want a 4" +/- then you're looking at basically the muzzle to about 185 yds. A 50 yard zero with a .30-06 gives it a very flat initial trajectory, basically from the muzzle to 125 yds it's going to be within an 1" of line of sight. A 250 yd zero (which has a near crossing at 15 yds) gives you 4" +/- from muzzle out to about 295 yds. Anything further out starts to have the bullet rise to high (to high or a maximum ordinate), and anything closer, you loose range for the far drop off. Again this is all based on an STP day at sea level, the environment in your AO will certainly effect things.

-Jenrick

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you want a 100 yard zero but have trouble seeing that far with open sights set a 25 yard zero. That will also set a 100 yard zero.

 

[Caliper_Mi]

If you want a 100 yard zero but have trouble seeing that far with open sights set a 25 yard zero. That will also set a 100 yard zero.

No, an M1 zeroed at 25 is closest to zeroed at 200yd, not 100.

I have seen where 22's with a very high scope (it was a set of those see-thru scope rings) will have near zero at 25 and far zero at 100, but not many situations will line up this way.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Delete please

 

[ArchAngelCD]

No, an M1 zeroed at 25 is closest to zeroed at 200yd, not 100.

I have seen where 22's with a very high scope (it was a set of those see-thru scope rings) will have near zero at 25 and far zero at 100, but not many situations will line up this way.

Yeah, that us probably correct. My memory isn't what it used to be.

EDIT:
I just checked my notes, when a 25 yard zero us used on a -30-06 it will be 2" high at 100 yards, sorry...

 

[Homerboy]

And the living target that the M1 was designed to remove from the earth will never know if you were 2 inches high, low, left, or right. Cause a hit to the torso with an.30-06 is gonna either kill the person or at least take him way out of the fight.

It's a battle rifle. Not a target rifle.