Hunting with the Monkey Mauser.

[Ugly Sauce]

Actually more of a pre-season scout. I usually hunt with my Jeager, but I took the 1891. She needed to get out and about. Bear and Cougar are open, but I'm holding out for the perfect bear, or an unusually large Cougar. The '91 can do it!

Anyhow, love hunting with any classic, front-stuffer or cartridge. This 1891, defiled by Monkey Wards back in the day, has an "A" prefix, three digit serial number, with all matching serial numbers, and the serial number still stamped in the stock. It's in very good shape, not "pristine", with some minor very well done period repairs in the stock.

Saw no big game, but lots of grouse, so I need to go back up soon as grouse opens, which is today. See if I can bag some with the AirLite. I'll probably be taking the Jeager from here on in, but there will be some days that I'll take one of my trapdoors for a ride, or maybe even the 03A3. For deer and Elk, I only have ML tags.

 

[troy fairweather]

The 7.65 is more then capable, shame it never really got popular it's about perfect for North America large game.

Here the one I put together 6-7 years ago, this one is 8x57 tho. Have hunted with it but I'm out of 318 bullets and need to buy or make some.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Wow that is nice. Have you ever considered eliminating the protruding magazine, and doing a flat magazine floorplate on one? I think it would still hold two in the mag, perfect for hunting, and sure make for a slim rifle. ? As I usually hunt with single-shots, even one in the mag would be "acceptable" to me.

Yes I like the 7.65, same ballistics as the .303 and the .300 Savage. Also don't need trick expensive bullets, as the standard bullets work super fine with the "gentle" velocity. I shoot a 180 grain round-nose out of my '91's.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Hunting alone ?

Yep, me, myself, and I. But my wife makes me carry a "Spot". My son says it's my "leash".

 

[vintovka]

If your rifle has an A prefix AND was made by LOWES if may be an antique under current US law.

 

[troy fairweather]

Wow that is nice. Have you ever considered eliminating the protruding magazine, and doing a flat magazine floorplate on one? I think it would still hold two in the mag, perfect for hunting, and sure make for a slim rifle. ? As I usually hunt with single-shots, even one in the mag would be "acceptable" to me.

Yes I like the 7.65, same ballistics as the .303 and the .300 Savage. Also don't need trick expensive bullets, as the standard bullets work super fine with the "gentle" velocity. I shoot a 180 grain round-nose out of my '91's.

I've thought about chopping the mag, maybe if I had a spare but there almost to nice to cut up. Even with the mag the balance point makes it very nice to carry, that octagon to round with the rib I'm sure is lighter then the old stepped barrel. I added a lever for the mag lock insted of the slot, if still needs to be finished filed. The guns not really finished yet either, I stained the stock black to give it that 100+ year old look. Some day I'll strip it and rust blue it. I'd like to engrave the action but the cost to have it heat treated would be a bit much. Tho I have zero money in this gun, did a intake manifold on his truck for him and he surprised me with it. The barrel another friend gave me, it was probably on a 98 pre ww1 j.p.sauer but someone cut it back and cut the shank down maybe for a 88-96 mauser. I cut the shoulder to line the sights up and to my surprise it headspaced perfectly. The gun was a cut sporter so I didn't feel bad doing this.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

If your rifle has an A prefix AND was made by LOWES if may be an antique under current US law.

Yep, A-0XXX. ! And all matching numbers. Too bad the Monkeys got a hold of it, would be quite an item in original configuration. But I love her just the same.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I've thought about chopping the mag, maybe if I had a spare but there almost to nice to cut up. Even with the mag the balance point makes it very nice to carry, that octagon to round with the rib I'm sure is lighter then the old stepped barrel. I added a lever for the mag lock insted of the slot, if still needs to be finished filed. The guns not really finished yet either, I stained the stock black to give it that 100+ year old look. Some day I'll strip it and rust blue it. I'd like to engrave the action but the cost to have it heat treated would be a bit much. Tho I have zero money in this gun, did a intake manifold on his truck for him and he surprised me with it. The barrel another friend gave me, it was probably on a 98 pre ww1 j.p.sauer but someone cut it back and cut the shank down maybe for a 88-96 mauser. I cut the shoulder to line the sights up and to my surprise it headspaced perfectly. The gun was a cut sporter so I didn't feel bad doing this.

I'd also be hesitant to cut the mag up, but sometimes I get to thinking that it would make for a very nice trim rifle, not that it's not already. I would not do it to either of my 91's of course, but I'd do it with parts and a donor sporter if I came across them. I think it would turn out nice, and not hard to do. Most people would balk at reducing the magazine capacity, but as mentioned I hunt mostly with single shots, so to me three rounds would be "high capacity", and even a two-shooter would work for me.

Didn't know the '91 would handle the 7.62X57mm, but I guess "why not" as it has dual locking lugs. ?

That's funny, I did the heads on an old Dodge truck for a guy and he traded me a Savage 99.

 

[troy fairweather]

I'd also be hesitant to cut the mag up, but sometimes I get to thinking that it would make for a very nice trim rifle, not that it's not already. I would not do it to either of my 91's of course, but I'd do it with parts and a donor sporter if I came across them. I think it would turn out nice, and not hard to do. Most people would balk at reducing the magazine capacity, but as mentioned I hunt mostly with single shots, so to me three rounds would be "high capacity", and even a two-shooter would work for me.

Didn't know the '91 would handle the 7.62X57mm, but I guess "why not" as it has dual locking lugs. ?

That's funny, I did the heads on an old Dodge truck for a guy and he traded me a Savage 99.

This was a 318, last year they made it lol. The 91 is pretty strong, if they lasted this long you should be fine. I like to keep it down under 40k psi, they don't mitigate has like a 98 does.

The hard thing with the mag is the sides are tapered and are like spring steel, the my be to stuff it shortened but I don't know. Could always get a small ring stock and use the floorplate, you would have to use a mag box with the feel lips on it.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Same here, 318. I know the small block Chrysler well.

I think the magazine would be doable as long as the single feed was maintained. I don't "think" it would be a problem. !! Easy for me to say. ! Both my Monkey Mausers are just a tad butt-heavy, so they don't balance perfectly in front of the magazine. Close, but I usually have my pinky finger over the front of the mag to carry it one-handed.

My other '91 is "interesting". The Monkeys must have done a good job in the first place, and then someone worked it over again. They didn't do a great job on the stock, but the blue on it looks like it came straight out of the Smith and Wesson factory, back in the days. If you didn't know better, one would swear that it never had a crest on it. You sure can't tell no matter what light you shine on it, and from what angle. Someone really knew their metal-work, if not so much wood-work. So, I re-did the stock, stripped off the poly-whatever-plastic-fantastic finish, and did a light stain and a real hand rubbed oil finish. It is a beauty to behold. !!

 

[troy fairweather]

[

Same here, 318. I know the small block Chrysler well.

I think the magazine would be doable as long as the single feed was maintained. I don't "think" it would be a problem. !! Easy for me to say. ! Both my Monkey Mausers are just a tad butt-heavy, so they don't balance perfectly in front of the magazine. Close, but I usually have my pinky finger over the front of the mag to carry it one-handed.

My other '91 is "interesting". The Monkeys must have done a good job in the first place, and then someone worked it over again. They didn't do a great job on the stock, but the blue on it looks like it came straight out of the Smith and Wesson factory, back in the days. If you didn't know better, one would swear that it never had a crest on it. You sure can't tell no matter what light you shine on it, and from what angle. Someone really knew their metal-work, if not so much wood-work. So, I re-did the stock, stripped off the poly-whatever-plastic-fantastic finish, and did a light stain and a real hand rubbed oil finish. It is a beauty to behold. !!

The old bluing salts were really good back then, the stuff smiths can get today don't have all the good stuff it it. My dad's old friend did really good bluing, for the really good jobs he would save them for winter and drop the blued parts in the snow and it was some of the best gluing I've ever seen.

I like to rust blue, anyone really can do it and I like the more mate Finish. I like to blast a gun with aluminum oxide then hot blue, it makes a very nice Finish.

You can kinda cheat and make a hot blued finish look like rust blue, a small wire wirewheel buffed over the parts can mimic it when blued. I'll post a picture of I can of that 98 I did that way.

 

[vintovka]

Yep, A-0XXX. ! And all matching numbers. Too bad the Monkeys got a hold of it, would be quite an item in original configuration. But I love her just the same.

If complete, unaltered, matching and requiring no FFL to sell have seen similar sell for $2K!+ in todays market. Add in a complete Argy crest (most were scrubbed) and the sky is the limit. Wards, sears and others bought these for near pennies on the dollar and flipped them for like $20 back when. Even worse many were altered by kitchen table "smiths" when converting milsurps to sporters was the "fad" du jour. Williams gunsights "how to convert" book was a real boost to their business. I once cornered one of the Williams family at the SHOT show and chided him about the book. He said he was used to the comments and said it still puts $ in his pocket. He added they actually increased the value of unaltered ones!!!!!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

From what I've seen, the Monkeys did a pretty good job converting the 91's, and they are nice well balanced good handling and good looking rifles. (if not butt heavy by a couple of ounces) Of course I'd love to have one in original condition, configuration, but I'm happy with my Monkey Mausers. A few years ago I passed on a carbine at a good price, and really regret it now.

I just wish that the Monkey who did my super-early production rifle had noticed the serial number, and maybe said: "maybe we should set this one aside". ! The crest has been scrubbed on it. Those darn crest-scrubbers, I saw an Arasaka 7.7 with the crest on it one day in a surplus store, at a good price (back when the scrubbing was not well understood or non-scrubbing appreciated) and passed on it. Do'H!

 

[vintovka]

The best of the conversions IMHO was making a faux fullstock mannlicher out of them. It required cutting back barrel to like 24" and using the front band as a nose cap. The better ones have a ramp front sight:

 

[troy fairweather]

Ya the full stock 91s are nice, I had a full stock 88 and 91 both rebarrled to 7x57 wish I still had them. I seen a 09 Argentine full stock a few weeks ago sell for $550 on gb really wish I had the money.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

That is beautiful. Better than a Monkey Mauser. I had a hunting partner for years that used a '91 very much like that. We called it "Senior Argentina". But then the beer bottle became more important than hunting. Seems my partners either croak, or choose the bottle over the hunt. ! Yep I'd love to have that one.

 

[daniel craig]

Any y’all hunting this early season from the 11-19th?

 

[caribou]

Any y’all hunting this early season from the 11-19th?

Sure, some early Caribou, Moose and Black Bear are perfect right now.

 

[Slamfire]

Didn't know the '91 would handle the 7.62X57mm, but I guess "why not" as it has dual locking lugs. ?

There are lots of unsafe conversions on the market. When this was done liability laws were a lot more lax than they are today, and Montgomery Ward is bust anyway. As an example, look what Bannerman shoveled out.

This is what the barrel end of a Mosin Nagant outghtto look like. The chamber is the pressure vessel for the cartridge, peak pressure occurs in the chamber area, and therefore the walls of the chamber are thick.



This is a Bannerman conversion.





Instead of installing a new barrel with a 30-06 chamber, Bannerman chopped the old chamber. A Russian cartridge is fatter than a 30-06, so they removed enough chamber to get the internal diameter down. And then they ran a 30-06 reamer so a 30-06 round would chamber. However, a 30-06 case neck and shoulder would be up in the thinner section of the barrel. These rifles developed a reputation for blowing up. Back then, there was no liability for such dangerous conversions, and since Bannerman is gone, there is no liability now.

The 1888 through GEW 1898 actions were built for cartridges that developed 3,000 atmospheres, that is operated at 43,000 psia. And they still had problems with cracked lugs and blown barrels because the metals of the period were awful. According to Deeter's books, the 1888 German rifle had the most problems, but, it was the first smokeless for the Germans. That being said, if you notice lug set back, or locking seat set back, the receiver is toast. You can run your finger inside the receiver ring and feel for an indentation.

Take a look at this receiver:

1895 Chilean Mauser
http://dutchman.rebooty.com/1895Chile.html

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I sure didn't know they set the barrel that far back. !!! I mean, I've read that that's how they did it, but never actually saw one before. Now that's crazy. I guess if you kept your loads in the light .30-30 range, you might be okay. ! Wow.