Hurricane Victim Tasered

[Don't Tread On Me]

http://wm.gannett.speedera.net/wm.gannett/wtsp/0408/18/taser.wmv

Sorry guys, I have a friend who is a LEO....but this is just insanity.

Here is a man who just wants to go home, with his KIDS - so you can't say he is a looter.

He didn't do anything violent, and the crowd was VOCAL, not threatening.

The cops drag him out of his car and taser him the the ground!!!

Then that other cop draws a pistol out on a crowd that was screaming, not threatening or advancing.........

 

[thefitzvh]

This guy was OBVIOUSLY a threat to public safety



I hope these thugs burn. They won't tho. 3 day paid leave, then right back on the job

 

[Michigander]

Then that other fat pig gestapo donut eater . . .

High Road?

I think not!


The dude went through a road block!

Note to self: Do not go through a police road block without permission.

I think I can remember that.

 

[Art Eatman]

The cops, the utility guys, the tree-cutters, the National Guard and other relief folks: They've been there for days. Little sleep. Heat. Humidity. Fatigue, for sure!

So some guy comes along and figures his wants are more important than anything else. He smarts off, and it escalates. Then the crowd gets into it, and the cop on the scene doesn't know if it's gonna stay at the mouth-music level or if he's gonna get swarmed.

Why is anybody ever surprised when something like this happens? It's just not that uncommon, although this time (it didn't download for me, on the video part) it was a cop who may well have lost it, instead of a resident or disaster-relief worker.

It's pointless to go to cop-bashing. Yeah, the cop might have been totally in the wrong. Regardless, the odds are that he was nowhere near any sort of normal shape, with normal body rest or not fatigued...

Art

 

[WYO]

This is another typical THR flame bait thread where we get a video snippet from a poor perspective, no audio, no opportunity to view the events that led up to the part we see, and the lynch mob already has started to form. I don’t see how anyone could form an opinion on the basis of that video, and it won’t get any better when the plaintiff oriented newspaper articles show up. These types of posts provide no benefit, just a soapbox for people with predisposed ideas one way or the other, and they usually run until someone goes too far and the thread gets locked.

 

[sendec]

Horrible

Clearly a lack of training and professionalism - you tase'em FIRST and then drag'em out......, Gawd I hope they did'nt forget to kick him around some and have Family Services takes his kids and sell'em on the adoption black market.

 

[Cosmoline]

Impossible to conclude anything from that. Does anyone have details on what was actually going on?

 

[RevDisk]

Then that other fat pig gestapo donut eater draws a pistol out on a crowd that was screaming, not threatening or advancing.........

That was uncalled for. I see that you're new here, but please use a bit of restraint.



If the police acted out of lines, I have no doubts that the gentleman tazered will sue for mental harm and suffering. If a complaint is brought up, it will be likely be investigated.

I don't think aiming the gun at the crowd was a wise idea, tactically wise. During my riot control training, we were told not to point weapons directly at people unless we were relatively sure we needed to kill them. Pointing them at the ground or air is one thing. We generally only kill people if our lives are in danger. Thus, unless the cop felt like the crowd was about to kill him, he shouldn't have unholstered his weapon and made things even more hostile.

Just my opinion.

 

[jnojr]

Any other sources for the video? It doesn't play for me... says "Buffering" for a little while, then "Stopped".

 

[joab]

Then that other fat pig gestapo donut eater draws a pistol out on a crowd that was screaming, not threatening or advancing.........

I think if you look closer at the tape, you will see that cop #2 was pointing a Taser at one man who was advancing on the cops.
After the storm there were orders to stay out of certain areas and a roadblock is a good indication that you are entering one of those areas. Like the reporter, said he got a reality check

The police were there to maintain order and protect the public and the workers in the area. They didn't have time to deal with some yahoo who thought he should be able to take his children into a dangerous area. Or some sideline hero telling the cops how to do their job. Personally I would have tazed the big mouth as soon as he moved toward my position instead of getting into an argument over who was in the wrong.

Can't anyone come up with some real juicy bad-cop stories

 

[Double Naught Spy]

DTOM, man, I gotta say that from the video link you provided, your assessment of the situation is unsubstantiated. Your assessment of the officer drawing his weapon after the incident is also unsubstantiated.

The man DID run a roadblock, or try to. The man was uncooperative. When ordered from his car (as near as I can tell from the poor quality video and sound), he did not comply.

So DTOM, do you know what the guy did BEFORE video footage started?

As Art noted, no doubt the officers and everyone else is tired. No doubt they are not going to go out of their way to do more work.

By the way, just because the guy wants to go home with his kids does NOT mean he isn't a looter. Your logic is flawed that by suggesting that since he is a local that he isn't a looter. I am not saying the guy was a looter, only that that the reasoning you used to proclaim his innocence is unfounded based on the information available in the video.

 

[Geech]

By the way, just because the guy wants to go home with his kids does NOT mean he isn't a looter. Your logic is flawed that by suggesting that since he is a local that he isn't a looter. I am not saying the guy was a looter, only that that the reasoning you used to proclaim his innocence is unfounded based on the information available in the video.

Guilty until proven innocent.

 

[jnojr]

OK, finally got to see it.

Assuming that he ran, or was trying to run, the roadblock, his being stopped is perfectly appropriate. We can't see what happened inside the vehicle, but again, if we assume the cops didn't suddenly decide to drag him out and stungun him for no good reason, he probably put up a fight (which is more than likely what attracted the crowd and got the guy to keep yelling "He's frustrated, man, he's frustrated!"). As for the fat one with the gun, hey... you're in a tense situation, you've got a screaming crowd, and one of them made a move that could be construed as threatening. Bringing a firearm to bear is perfectly appropriate.

With nothing else to go on but the video, I don't see a problem. This guy is "frustrated" and decides he's exempt from lawful police orders, and he goes down fighting.

 

[El Tejon]

Remember what Tio Tejon sez: always Eddie Haskell up in front of the po po. Saves a lot of gun money for attorney fees.

 

[P95Carry]

Tempting to bash ... yeah but - Art makes some very valid comments. As ever - we are ''armchairing'' with limited facts .... I have little doubt this was over reaction but - circumstances (apparent) taken into account .... I think we'd need the full heads up before calling in the vigilante squad!

A seriously overtired and frightened cop ....... not really thinking too straight perhaps ...... just wants to see the end of another day. I doubt if these guys were the only ones under extremes of pressure.

Feel sorry for all parties really.

 

[Coronach]

I can't get it to run. That said, I can't really see what happened (and, from what others have said, you can't really see all that much anyway), but here are a few thoughts:

Driving through a roadblock is likely an arrestable offense, regardless of whether we are in the aftermath of a hurricane or simply dealing with a Dave Matthews Band concert.

Actively resisting arrest can get one tasered in most any use of force continuum.

Therefore, with the given information, nothing jumps out as being prima facia out of line. Could it be excessive force? Sure. Could it be comepletely good? Sure.

Mike

 

[Art Eatman]

So the guy gets through a roadblock and messes up a utility crew's reflexes and they drop a pole on him or one of the workmen gets injured...Or there's still a hot wire down, and his kid finds it...

Or, no lights, no water, no phone, no roof, wet and mildewed/soggy bedding, carpets, towels. What good is Harry Homeowner gonna do? He can stare forlornly and leave, just like the newsies. Oh, don't forget, no restaurants, no indoor flush potties.

Ever been in a major hurricane? Ever worked in disaster relief during the aftermath?

I worked damage survey after Hurricane Celia hit Corpus Christi, back in August of 1970. 160 mph sustained winds. Not much rain or surge, but enough surge and waves to tear heck out of a helluva lot of boats. Shrimp boats stacked three deep in Conn Brown Harbor at Aranas Pass. On the barrier island at Port Aransas, 99% destruction of mobile homes; 80% on raised-deck houses.

The last thing folks working on the wires and water lines needed was a bunch of lost souls wandering around, wondering how many miles away their undies had blown.

Art

 

[El Tejon]

Watched this a couple of times, but one thing I do know from watching video for a living is that there is always a before the camera was turned on and after the camera was turned off and what the camera did not see!

Was the copper on the left drawing down on the crowd???

So what if the guy is frustrated? What's that got to do with anything?

A lot of my guys are drunk because they are frustrated (women, losing night at poker, crappy life, etc.) when they go down for resisting law enforcement, obstructing justice or crim trespass. Maybe we should import juries from Florida?

 

[Shield529]

I would have to see alot more than this to make any accurate statements.
In Theory;
If he did try to run the roadblock and then became combative, it was perfectly appropriate to Taser and take him out of the car for the safty of the officers and the suspect.
If he was just mouthing and arguing only then the actions of the officers are way out of line and should be dealt with.
I would need to see everything up to that point to know what really happened.

Three points I would like to make;
1. Just because someones kids are in the car does not mean I will not take any action upto and including deadly force. I hate to, and if a person is compliant I will wait to handcuff until the kids are gone and tell the kids that whoever I am arresting is a friend who's help I need and thats why they are coming with me.
But make no mistake I am not getting beaten or killed just because kids are in the car.

2. The large officer did not point a gun at the crowd, (which would have been reckless and just stupid), it was a Taser.

3. I am not a doughnut eating pig. I am on a diet and frankly starving

 

[Matt G]

Taser looks terrible. It looks like you hit the man with a cattle prod. By all accounts, it's not real comfortable. But it's NOT major pain-- it just incapacitates the muscles.

Now, I'm not saying this to jump right in and automatically defend its use, here; I can't get the dadgummed thing to play for me, either. But compared to some other intermediate uses of force that were the option back when, Taser's pretty gentle. Ever been sprayed by OC? I have, and it simply sucks. It's unbearable to me. Ever been beaten by a nightstick? I've taken a couple of misdirected hits from an ASP during training, and they left major welts. Not fun, and potentially life-threatening, should they hit the wrong place. Certainly disabling, should a bone or joint break.

Then there are the old tools. Saps. Boots. Buttstrokes. And you know what? Back when those were in vogue, nobody much called 'em on it when they were used.

Can a Taser be misused? You bet. Could this be one of the times? Possibly.

But, from the descriptions I'm getting, could this have been a spendid example of when it SHOULD have been used? Very possibly. Give me 100 questionable Taser-ings to any questionable gunshot.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Matt, I absolutely agree with 99% of that, and I don't want to sound like I'm joining in any cop-bashing, because I'm certainly not.

But Rob Pincus wrote in SWAT that being tasered with an M26 was the worst pain he'd ever experienced and that he was not able to evaluate whether his muscles were incapacitated because the pain made him collapse and forget all about his plan of evaluating whether he was physically incapacitated.

That's all I have. You can all carry on now.

 

[M2HMGHB]

From the video you see a guy in a white T-shirt breaking in front of it, then see the camera shift and the officer pointing the taser or gun at the guy. Looks like the officer was reacting to an outside threat. For those who cant get it to run try right clicking on the link and downloading it to the desktop.(works for IE{save target} not sure what it is on other browsers) I'm not judging it in any way just stating what I saw.

 

[Kilrain]

With all do respect to Mr. Pincus of this quote:

But Rob Pincus wrote in SWAT that being tasered with an M26 was the worst pain he'd ever experienced and that he was not able to evaluate whether his muscles were incapacitated because the pain made him collapse and forget all about his plan of evaluating whether he was physically incapacitated

I am a TASER Instructor. I have been hit with the M26 TASER and taken the full five second ride. I have TASERed numerous persons and seen numerous others TASERed. The TASER does, in fact., hurt. Or rather I've never had anyone tell me that it did not hurt. I've had people describe various levels of pain from it being the worst thing they've ever experienced to it hurt a great deal but nobody ever said it tickled.

As for incapacitation, yes, it does incapacitate you if it is applied correctly. The TASER works best the further apart the probes are spread with large muscle masses in between. It incapacitates by disrupting the electrical signals between your brain and muscles through the application of electricity. The TASER, like a firearm, requires the operator to correctly and accurately apply the probes to the target. Failure to do so will result in less spectacular results including non-incapacitating shots.

The TASER is not a magic wand nor is the answer to all force situations however it is a really good tool that has saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives, prevented countless thousands of injuries to citizens and law enforcement officers and saved millions in lawsuits.

If you have any questions regarding it, I'll be happy to try to answer them and if I can't, I'll try to refer you to someone who can. And no, I don't work for TASER International but I do think they make a great product.

 

[Diggler]

We are looking to move to Florida, and I've learned something from this. Stay stocked up with food, propane and water for a hurricane, and if and when one hits, I'M NOT EVACUATING. I'll send the wife and kids to her parents' in Orlando, but I'll stay. With enough water, propane and canned goods I could hunker down for over a week in my own home with no problem. I'd also make sure that I had a flat-top AR handy for any looters. We were in Orlando for Charley (visiting) and it is unbelieveable how prepared you can be for these. There is so much advance notice, you should be well stocked several days or a week in advance. Then you can spend your time the morning before it hits, going to the store and watching the people panic when they decide they need bread three hours before it hits.

This plan of action, of course, would be unnecessary if the goverment would allow me back to my house as soon as the hurricane is over. But since they've decided to go about it this way, they are going to encourage more people to stay behind and therefore endanger more lives.

Neal Boortz reported yesterday that government inspectors are GOING THROUGH PEOPLE'S HOMES to 'inspect' them without the owners being there. It's four days after the hurricane when this guy gets nailed. Why can't he go back to all he has? To see what's left? To keep lowlifes from taking the little bit of what he might have? And when stuff comes up missing, how can you tell who took some of your stuff... the looters or 'inspectors'? Tell the people who want to go back what the risks and inconveniences are, and let them go to their homes to start to piece their lives back together.

It's not the government's job to protect us from ourselves, no matter what they think.

 

[SOT_II]

Simple do not comply, you get tased or pepper sprayed.

Considering he ran a roadblock and almost hit two cops (there is a longer version of this video) The police showed amazing restraint in not shooting the guy.

ALl the while he risked the lives of his children...