Hypothetical scenario about ballistics and range

[taliv]

some bullets are "hollow points" which are made for expansion
other bullets are "open tip match" which is really a byproduct of a manufacturing decision. i.e. forming a cup of copper and pounding lead into it as a mfg process means you can either have a nice base or nice tip but not both. for accuracy, the uniformity in the base of the bullet is more important than the tip, so the decision is essentially to wrap the copper around the bottom and then use a die to squeeze it together at the top, which still leaves a slight open spot. i.e. the open tip is not designed to expand.

just personal opinion, but i think those rounds have a reputation for effective killing not because of some magic expansion, but because they are a rifle round and because people hit their targets more often with them because the people that use them tend to practice more and are more accurate shooters

 

[denton]

Match OTM Tactical bullets – designed for cartridges and rifles that are used in combat

That's from the Berger site, so I stand corrected. Good catch. Thank you.

You're also correct that hollow points are fine for varmints. A critter the size of a coyote is not going to notice the difference between a hollow point, a ballistic tip, and a soft point. So I'm corrected twice.

If I'm reading the Hornady site correctly, the FPD hollow points are pistol bullets.

 

[Warp]

I think we agree on the Barnes exception, but disagree on the BTHP from Hornady.

Hornady lists it as a match bullet.

I'm sure that you could effectively defend yourself with the BTHP if you had to, but it's not designed for that use. Penetration is likely to be poor, as is bullet integrity after impact.

I suppose you aren't familiar with Hornady TAP FPD in .223. Not a bad choice for defense at all.

The FPD is For Personal Defense for those unaware




How about the Black Hills mk262? Great choice there. It's an OTM, but is a great choice for defense. And for accuracy. The differences between OTM and JHP aren't always that big from a practical standpoint


.

 

[Warp]

If I'm reading the Hornady site correctly, the FPD hollow points are pistol bullets.

I missed the new page before making my above reply.

See above for Hornady 75gr BTHP in .223 sold as For Personal Defense

 

[denton]

See above for Hornady 75gr BTHP in .223 sold as For Personal Defense

Then it must be so.

 

[Warp]

I also found this interesting.

SGK stands for sierra game king

 

[The_Next_Generation]

Not to write your book for you, but I think it would be more believable if the shooter dropped the rifle and ruined the scope that way. Also, if smoke is hiding him from the DM, how can he even see the DM?

Finally, I doubt anyone could make a lung-shot on what would be exposed of the DM at 500m with the open sights on a zavasta (short of being blessed). In a city, I would suppose the DM is concealed by rubble or concrete in some form. As a military trained sniper he would be all but visible, and definitely wouldn't expose his torso for long. Even if he was hit, he would probably be wearing ballistic protection over his torso, protecting his lungs from an errant shot by a zavasta-wielding rebel.

Not to be rude, but if I read your proposed shootout I wouldn't be impressed. Even if the ranges were cut in half, I'd say the rebel would have to have the element of surprise on his side to win.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

A note on the photo you posted, Warp.

Notice that the jacket on the SGK has a considerably larger volume than that of the OTM. I say considerably because any slight increase in radius (a thicker jacket) has a large effect on the volume of a cylinder (height*pi*r^2). Match bullets are known to shed their jackets when they hit animals, whereas game-specific projectiles stay together.

 

[Warp]

A note on the photo you posted, Warp.

Notice that the jacket on the SGK has a considerably larger volume than that of the OTM. I say considerably because any slight increase in radius (a thicker jacket) has a large effect on the volume of a cylinder (height*pi*r^2). Match bullets are known to shed their jackets when they hit animals, whereas game-specific projectiles stay together.

Noted.

But then bullet construction typically differs between hunting bullets and defensive bullets due to many game animals being tougher/stronger-of-construction than humans...to a hunting bullet penetration is more important than it is to a defensive bullet.

 

[The_Next_Generation]

But then bullet construction typically differs between hunting bullets and defensive bullets due to many game animals being tougher/stronger-of-construction than humans...to a hunting bullet penetration is more important than it is to a defensive bullet.

Valid point. Forgot we were talking about defensive use, not hunting. I would actually prefer the bullet breaks apart in a SD scenario than stay together.

 

[Warp]

Valid point. Forgot we were talking about defensive use, not hunting. I would actually prefer the bullet breaks apart in a SD scenario than stay together.

I agree, provided of course that the breaking apart doesn't overly limit penetration, since shot placement is king, penetration is queen, and everything else is just gravy, as they say.


Partly due to maximizing damage and thus maximizing your chance of an immediate stop to the attack (bullets coming out the other side are just wasted energy and lost potential), but also partly because in a defensive situation you are likely to have more risk posed by over penetration...hunting you simply have more control over your direction of fire and whether or not you pull the trigger (less dire consequences if your backstop is too risky to fire)

 

[twofifty]

engage the reader

edit: removed ill-considered post

 

[Casefull]

Just say the velocity was low enough at say 600 yds that the bullet when in the front of the scope and blew the glass back in the shooters eye, blinding him in that eye. The bullet spent the last of it's energy pushing the eyepiece glass apart. That way you have a pissed vengeful man with a bad eye. Someone who said 600 yard head shots are no problem with the rifle is dreaming. If you want to be realistic say it was a lucky shot hitting the scope...because it sure would be.

 

[denton]

Or have the bullet strike a stone, disintegrating the bullet and sending a shower of lead and copper residue into the front lens.