"I don't own a .300 WSM because I mostly hunt elk, and they're not enough for elk."

[Cryogaijin]

So, I was at the range today, And the guy next to me was sighting in a .300 winmag boltie with a brand new Zeiss Conquest somethingX24 by 50mm. He had all the gear, a Lead Sled, a caldwell Stable Table, caldwell sandbags for the Sled, a metal target stand, a range finder, and a high end Leupold spotting scope, and a buddy on the scope.

We chatted a bit, and stated that he owned pretty much every .300 magnum, and a .338 lapua. I asked specifically about the .300 WSM as it is the most interesting .300 magnum IMO, and he gave me the above quote.

Now I lived in alaska for over a decade, and I hunted everything in the state (Except the Bison) with my trusty 30-06, with its own Zeiss scope on it. (a 3.6x9X40mm) I've NEVER felt undergunned hunting even the largest moose or bear with my Aught six, so hearing that something that has a good 25% more power isn't good for that. . . well I kept my mouth shut.

He then proceeded to put a full box of ammo downrange without printing on the paper once. (Not sure what rifle it was, but it was an external magazine fed synthetic stocked stainless steel barreled Springfield stamped gun bolt action.) His shooting buddy was calling out shots, but most of the time it was "waay off"

So I pulled out MY spotting scope, set it up, and called for his next box of ammo. "about 8" low" "About 6" high, four to the right." "Same spot, one inch lower." "Dead center, 4 inches high" I suspect he didn't realize that when sighting in at 50 yards you need to do twice the number of clicks as at 100 yards, not half as many. At 4"high dead center he was satisfied and called a stop to the range and went to set his target up at 200 yards. I went back to my own shooting. He took another 10 rounds or so to dial it in at 200, then spent the last half of his second box aiming at a cell phone that had been set up as a target. (he got it on his 9th shot)

This echos virtually every other experience I've had with Magnum Snobs. (Or whatever you want to call them.) They're replacing accuracy with power, and ending up as mediocre shooters. He undoubtably spent several times what I did on my hunting set-up, and I'm far more confident in my ability to take game with my "mousefart" 30-06 than him with his .338 lapua.

I'm by no means a great marksman (I consider myself mediocre, and in need of a great deal more practice) but compared to this guy I might as well have been Carlos Hathcock.

 

[silicosys4]

Sounds like me, trying to develop some of my early handloads, lol...all over the place.
I also personally am moving up in caliber from a .300 winmag sometime soon, probably to a .375 of some sort, specifically for elk, for reasons I personally don't care if others approve of or not. Everyone has an opinion, such as "the 30-06 is the perfect round", or "the .300 wsm is more than enough gun for an 1100lb Bull elk at 400 yards".... everyone is welcome to their opinion, and this is just mine.

I'll give you one thing, I did see a bit of snobbery in your post, but it wasn't from mr. magnum. He seemed like a nice enough guy, chatty and soforth.

 

[Stress_Test]

Ouch, sounds like that was an expensive sight-in session.

And I felt bad about using 20-something rounds sighting in my .22 mag rifle! Turned out I had messed up mounting the scope, but didn't realize it until I had no more windage adjustment left and was still hitting far left.

Things went much faster once I got the scope on straight! LOL

 

[Cryogaijin]

I will admit to quite a bit of snobbery. I come by it naturally, I have about half as much as my dad does.

There are other comments that he made which I cannot repeat here due to the Family Friendly rules of the forum.

Had he been "Nice and Chatty" I'd have jumped on my scope to help him sight in immediately. It is what I have my scope in my range-kit for, after all. My concern, however, is that he got sighted in after putting around 30 rounds through it. His barrel had to be quite hot, and significantly more fouled than when he arrived on the range. I hope he realizes that for his next session out on the range.

What really got me, TBH, was that he was geared up with expensive stuff, shooting match grade factory ammo, left his brass on the ground, and commented that he didn't like the ballistic twin of the round he was shooting.

My snobberies:
I am biased in favor of American Walnut stocks with quality detailing.

I am biased in favor of high quality optics, regardless of manufacture.

I am biased in favor of accuracy.

I am biased in favor of inexpensive solutions that work as well (or better) than expensive ones.

 

[jeepnik]

Just nod, say okay and walk away. He may not know anything about ballistics or elk, but he is supporting the shooting industry in fine style.

 

[Cryogaijin]

True, and he was shooting safe, and following range rules. Guess I was being overcritical

 

[HankB]

Should've told him he didn't need a Lead Sled, the secret was to hold the buttstock an inch away from his shoulder so the rifle slows down before he feels the recoil.

 

[matrem]

So, I was at the range today, And the guy next to me

In just about everything we do, there's somebody that fits that description.

Guess I was being overcritical

Maybe so? At least he was at a shooting range.

Hey, we know most folks here take shooting more serious than most (even at the range) do.
Hear what he says, then either learn something from it or dismiss it.

 

[MCMXI]

This echos virtually every other experience I've had with Magnum Snobs. (Or whatever you want to call them.) They're replacing accuracy with power, and ending up as mediocre shooters.

Perhaps the magnum snobs you've encountered weren't good shooters to begin with. My experience has been that good shooters are good shooters regardless of the cartridge.

 

[frankenstein406]

sounds like you got free brass and to chat for a bit.

 

[MtnCreek]

The guy sounds a lot like me in my teens, except I couldn't afford expensive toys then. Luckily I figured it out.

 

[Abel]

When I started deer hunting, my dad handed me a 336 in 30-30 and said, "this is all you need to kill deer". He had a few nice European mounts hanging on his shop wall to prove that it indeed worked. I hunted a couple years with the 30-30 with no success and even missed a doe at about 125 yards. I figured that what I really needed was a new 7-Mag. I saved up money from selling vegetables and cutting grass and I bought one the summer of 1990. I hunted and killed several deer over six years with that A-Bolt 7-Mag and you know what? None were over 125 yards. In fact, all were under 100 yards. That was when I was 12-20 years old. Now I'm 35 and the 7-Mag is gone, but dad was right all along. The last six or seven deer that I have killed have all been with a 336 in either 35 Rem or 30-30. I suppose my point is that we change our minds as time goes on. What you liked to shoot 1990 may be completely different than what you enjoy in 2013.

 

[Art Eatman]

Cryogaijin, it sounds like you met a perfect example of way too many American males who figure that ownership creates expertise. This is often coupled with, "My mind is made up; don't try to confuse me with facts."

The idea that a .300 WSM is inadequate for elk shows he knows nothing about what people have been doing in the world of elk hunting for over a hundred years.

Ah, well. That dude has many and many a cousin. I've met way too many of them in various gun stores.

 

[allaroundhunter]

I was at a range once and there was a guy there shooting a new .338 Win Mag. The guy seemed like a new shooter and looked like he was having some problems with adjusting his scope so I offered to help him. He was a really nice guy, but when I asked him why he chose that gun (it was his first gun), he said that the gun dealer told him that it was the only caliber that would drop a Texas whitetail in its tracks "every time"....

I helped him through about 5 more rounds and mentioned to him that it looked d like he was flinching. I handed him my M70 . 243 and after his first shot he looked up with a grin and said he liked it much more. I didn't say anything, I just set my phone next to him that had pictures of my last 3 Texas whitetails with that same M70 in my hand.

I actually went back with him to the same gun shop to sell back that rifle and help him choose a .243. We got him a nice Savage 11 and about $200 back in his pocket


Luckily, this guy wasn't a magnum "snob", just magnum "uninformed". I have been around some real magnum snobs.... It is crazy how my "puny .243" manages to drop deer with such a small and insignificant bullet.

 

[Archaic]

A .300 mag would be an excellent elk round, but I've never felt under gunned with my '06 either. In fact I. Insider it overkill for deer unless I really have to reach out.

Makes me feel sorry for all of those elk Jack O'Conner killed, they must have felt pretty insulted to have been killed with a measly varmit round like a .270.

I'd prefer putting a 30-30 in his wheel house to a .338 la-POW in his ham any day.

 

[Mosbyranger]

Everybody knows that Elk are indeed armor plated and impervious to rifle rounds of less than .338 caliber and 450 grains weight with a muzzle velocity of 3750000 fps. That is why we must all rush out and get the latest greatest Elk mashing magnum of the month as selected by magazine writers who's glowing reviews of the performance of the "must have" are followed by a full page ad from the same manufacturer. Why anyone would stick with a puny 30.06 when they can get a short wide fat ultra thermonuclear round is beyond me. If I can pay $5.00/round I must be shooting a superior product. Therefore it follows that I am a superior shot and a better outdoorsman and genuine Davy Crockett. By God, I think my next Elk weapon will be a 105 mm howitzer......
MR

 

[Gtscotty]

Psh, I guess you could use a 105mm if wounding deer is your thing... 155mm or go home I always say.

 

[morcey2]

I work with a couple of guys who define themselves as "Elk Hunters." We were talking about rifles and I mentioned that mine topped out at 30-06 & 8x57.

"No wonder you don't elk hunt. Those are barely enough for deer."

The longest shot either of them has made at an elk is 250 yards max. At that range, a 180 grain partition from the 30-06 or 200 grain from the 8x57 is more than enough. Heck, at that range, my 7x57 w/ a premium bullet of some sort would be plenty. One of the guys shoots a 338 win mag, the other shoots a 300 RUM most of the time. I'm not a fan of recoil or meat damage and like to be able to shoot my hunting rifles a lot. I can practice with what I shoot, it's very hard for them both physically and financially to do the same.

Matt

 

[GooseGestapo]

A former co-worker has a photo of his grand-father circa 1900 or so from Colorado. He (grandfather) was first Colorado conservation officer killed in line of duty.
In photo is a wagon load of game, game heads from bear, elk, sheep, deer, and pronghorn that had been confiscated from poacher. Game had all been taken with a Winchester M92 in .25/20wcf !!!! Most with a single shot.

He's still got the rifle! It was confiscated and awarded by court judge to officer as compensation for court pay. It was an embellished (silver plated hardware and engraving and checkered) factory special order rifle. Not sure who it was built for, but a real looker of a gun and still in near pristine condition.
No it dosen't take a cannon to kill an elk, or indeed they're "tougher" than they were a century ago. (not!)
Like I was once told; it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian launching it!

 

[WYOMan]

Nowadays the 25-20 wouldn't rate effective for rabbits.

 

[DAP90]

I was at a range once and there was a guy there shooting a new .338 Win Mag. The guy seemed like a new shooter and looked like he was having some problems with adjusting his scope so I offered to help him. He was a really nice guy, but when I asked him why he chose that gun (it was his first gun), he said that the gun dealer told him that it was the only caliber that would drop a Texas whitetail in its tracks "every time"....

I helped him through about 5 more rounds and mentioned to him that it looked d like he was flinching. I handed him my M70 . 243 and after his first shot he looked up with a grin and said he liked it much more. I didn't say anything, I just set my phone next to him that had pictures of my last 3 Texas whitetails with that same M70 in my hand.

I actually went back with him to the same gun shop to sell back that rifle and help him choose a .243. We got him a nice Savage 11 and about $200 back in his pocket

I wish you’d been around when I was shopping for my first gun. Based on advice from the dealer I’d bought a M70 in 338 Win Mag. Prior to that the only other gun I’d ever shot was an M16.

First shot – scope bite above the eye. It went downhill from there. It nearly put me off shooting forever and it took years to get rid of the flinch.

I now own a 243.

 

[Kachok]

High powered magnums do not make for a good first rifle, once someone learns how to deal with recoil properly there is often not any reason not to use a 300 or 338 magnum.
I have been shooting 308, 30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 270 Win and WSM for years and can shoot them all day at the range. I could step up to a 300 magnum without question but have yet to see the need to, good ol 30-06 is already plenty enough gun by any standards.
My first deer hunting rifle was a 243, that is a good level of recoil for any new shooter, as is the 6.5x55 which is my favorite of the sissy kickers.

 

[Ar180shooter]

I work with a couple of guys who define themselves as "Elk Hunters." We were talking about rifles and I mentioned that mine topped out at 30-06 & 8x57.

"No wonder you don't elk hunt. Those are barely enough for deer."

The longest shot either of them has made at an elk is 250 yards max. At that range, a 180 grain partition from the 30-06 or 200 grain from the 8x57 is more than enough. Heck, at that range, my 7x57 w/ a premium bullet of some sort would be plenty. One of the guys shoots a 338 win mag, the other shoots a 300 RUM most of the time. I'm not a fan of recoil or meat damage and like to be able to shoot my hunting rifles a lot. I can practice with what I shoot, it's very hard for them both physically and financially to do the same.

Matt

You want to make sure that you are choosing an appropriate round to take the game in question, but both the 30-06 and 8mm Mauser are more than appropriate for elk at reasonable ranges. I think the main problem with the "magnum shooters" (heck, most shooters in general) is a poor understanding of internal and external ballistics, along with wound profiles. The few hundred extra FPS gained from magnum cartridges only extends the effective range of that cartridge, not make it effective (assuming similar caliber/bullet construction). If a 300WinMag can take an elk at 600 yards, a .308Winchester can take it at 500 yards (and both of those shots are probably beyond the abilities of most hunters).

 

[sk8r]

I've never quite understood the need for a magnum caliber, unless you're shooting at something WAY bigger than almost all North American game. I've never shot big game with anything but my BLR in .308. As long as you know what that rifle, and the particular load you have in it, are capable of, and stay inside those limits, you'll never feel like you're under-gunned.

 

[surfinUSA]

I know "everyone" loves the magnums. But I'm a real believer that the 30-06 is more than enough gun for any North American Game. Learn to shoot, pick your shots and use good ammo. From what I've read the Swedes have been reliably taking moose with the 6.5 since it was introduced.

I tend to agree with the OP, magnums have their place. But they don't make you a shooter or a hunter.