"I Am Outraged" - Immigration...

[azredhawk44]

And what happens when 12-20 million illegals are granted virtual amnesty under the Guest worker program and become eligable for SS in ten years?

See, these illegal guys are paying into the SS system with someone else's number. Usually the number of someone who's been dead and buried for a decade or two. It's a valid number, but it's not their number. The government lets them pay, but if they ever tried to file a request to actually draw a SS check? Geez, they'd be arrested and deported so fast it would make your head spin. They'd be lucky if they made it out of the US without being hit with a conviction for fraud - because the only way they could collect would be if they pretended to be "Mildred Dimwittle of Sheboygan, Wisconsin" or something. In other words, the person who's number they were using when they paid into the SS system.

Mongo really nailed it. It would be a piece of cake for the SS system to identify these guys when they pay into the system if they had any interest whatsoever in catching them. If 105-year old Mildred Dimwittle of Sheboygan starts doing work as a Construction Laborer in Raleigh, NC - you'd think that might set off an alarm bell somewhere, wouldn't you? But it doesn't. Know why not?

Azredhawk curls into a fetal ball around his M1A, drawing comfort from it, while mumbling under his breath "Precious, my Precious..." as the mexican hordes continue to swell northwards with uncounted middle eastern terrorists interspersed in their midst.

 

[308win]

[QUOTE='card]
Personally, if I was in their situation, growing up in abject poverty with no legitimate prospects and no opportunities, then I can only hope I'd have enough guts to do what these folks are doing.[/QUOTE]

Wrong! Instead of taking advantage of this country why don't they try changing what they dislike about their own country. If they are exploited, underemployed, over-taxed, whatever - revolt either at the ballot box or in the streets. And don't give me that hackneyed argument about no means, boot of the oppressor on the neck, etc. There are outside agents who would arm the oppressed - always has been always will be.

 

[obiwan1]

+1

 

[azredhawk44]

Wrong! Instead of taking advantage of this country why don't they try changing what they dislike about their own country. If they are exploited, underemployed, over-taxed, whatever - revolt either at the ballot box or in the streets. And don't give me that hackneyed argument about no means, boot of the oppressor on the neck, etc. There are outside agents who would arm the oppressed - always has been always will be.

Excellent point and it needs to happen!

Problem is... Mexico WILL go socialist if they revolt. Those who would revolt are the uneducated and unskilled. They ALWAYS go socialist.

That makes Mexico ally with Cuba and Venezuela. Mexico sends us a lot of oil right now. Venezuela has threatened to use oil exports as a weapon against us in the past. We don't need Mexico doing the same.

For the USA, oil = short hairs. And they got us by 'em, fellas.

 

['Card]

Nope 'Card, those poor people are damn thieves burlarising my house, vandalising my neighborhood and imposing their culture upon me and I will treat them as such in every manner possible. Additionally, anyone who knowingly hires them is on the same parasitic level as they are and deserve the same treatment and contempt. No offense meant, just the way it is.

You know, I started to respond to that and tell you all about how my Scottish ancestors were accused of the same thing 100 years ago when they came over and went to work in the coal mines, but to be honest with you? There's no point in re-hashing all of that. Anyone who knows anything about the Scottish immigrants, Irish immigrants, Okies during the depression, African-Americans or American Indians (just to name a few of the more blatant examples) will see exactly where your statement is coming from. Me making it any clearer would just be beating a dead horse.

 

[Cuda]

I feel bad for those who come here to help their families, however breaking our laws is wrong. Our esteemed government should be dealing with Fox to fix this problem. I don't blame the poor Mexicans but I can't condone their actions.

Providing them any services with the exception of a one way bus ticket back home must stop immediately. It is costing jobs and services to American citizens and whether we like it or not we are loosing our southwestern states to illegal aliens and the PC politicans.

I hope it never comes to armed Americans fighting the citizens of Mexico but unless the politicians get off the pot it could happen..

C

 

[Manedwolf]

You know, I started to respond to that and tell you all about how my Scottish ancestors were accused of the same thing 100 years ago when they came over and went to work in the coal mines, but to be honest with you? There's no point in re-hashing all of that. Anyone who knows anything about the Scottish immigrants, Irish immigrants, Okies during the depression, African-Americans or American Indians (just to name a few of the more blatant examples) will see exactly where your statement is coming from. Me making it any clearer would just be beating a dead horse.

Irish immigrants getting into fistfights outside of NY and Boston pubs and all that isn't quite the same as illegals from south of the border doing drive-bys in formerly peaceful neighborhoods.

Call it stereotyping, call it un-PC, call it what you want, but it IS HAPPENING.
Manchester just had the first drive-by anyone can remember in history...downtown, car shooting at another car. On the main business street. Broad daylight.

Can't say what ethnic group they were...would be un-PC!

When you want to be a part of a nation, you have pride in it. When you don't, when you insist on only speaking your homeland's language, displaying your homeland's flag, having only friends from your homeland, and trying to go by the laws, or lack thereof, of your homeland, you're far more likely to see your "adopted" new home as a place to relieve yourself on the ground, not a place to have pride in. And that's what's happening.

"Not my house, so I can trash it."

 

[wingman]

The illegal immigrant of today has changed, perhaps not all but many, more prone to violence, less willing to become part of America and holds allegiance to Mexico although their country has effected nothing for them.

The above is my personal opinion of changes I have witnessed past 25 years in south texas, most of all it is the shear numbers that come, day after day human waves 30-50 size groups at a time , poor educated, many older, all in all not a quality work force for a country that wishes to maintain something more then a third world like society.

I guess the question consistently will be to me is how many can we afford because make no mistake it is costing average Joe taxpayer while the wealthy on both sides of the border profit.

 

[garyk/nm]

Sending the choo-choo off to a temporary siding: Deportation.
Why is it, that when something finally happens right, and we get around to deporting some of these criminals, we send them right back across the same border they had no trouble crossing the first (or 2nd, 3rd, 4th) time?
If we need to deport someone, send 'em someplace interesting. Like Rwanda. Be a little harder to walk right back.

Just a thought. Please continue.

 

[bowfin]

/*I can personally overlook the illegal part of their immigration as long as they follow the REST of the laws once they get here.*/

Can I rob your house as long as I obey all traffic laws proceeding to and from the scene of the crime?

Our laws are not a buffet, if everyone gets to pick and choose which particular laws apply to them, you have anarchy and chaos.

 

[azredhawk44]

Why is it, that when something finally happens right, and we get around to deporting some of these criminals, we send them right back across the same border they had no trouble crossing the first (or 2nd, 3rd, 4th) time?
If we need to deport someone, send 'em someplace interesting. Like Rwanda. Be a little harder to walk right back.

They're trying something like this in Tijuana.

The border patrol is giving illegals plane rides to Mexico City. That way they have 2000 miles to cross before they get back to our border.

Don't know their success rate in discouraging repeat offenders, though.

 

[Selfdfenz]

I believe the supposition that illegals, working in the US, and paying into SS, but are not and will never become citizens, are unable to draw a check after retirement is incorrect. I believe they can. I seem to recall some debate on that point about a year ago and IIRC they may will be able to collect under current law.

Anyway...what has not been stated is that many illegals pay SS under more than one SS#. Given the rampant fraud in the SS system now by US citizens extrapolate that and imagine the fun in the future when a single amnestied illegal, who has paid the minimum to qualify for benefits under 2, 4 or 10 SS#s, starts drawing 2, 4 or 10 checks.

If we can't make the system accountable here, now, in the US with US citizens, how will we do so when 30% or 50% or 70% of the $$$$ is going to Mexico, to Mexican citizens. Ask them for mail-in photos I presume.

 

[garyk/nm]

The border patrol is giving illegals plane rides to Mexico City. That way they have 2000 miles to cross before they get back to our border.

Oh, goody. So it just adds a week to the time they get back. Sounds like a (government) plan.
As long as we're giving them a plane ride, maybe we could air-drop a few in Iraq? Or Bosnia?
Please???

 

[308win]

Problem is... Mexico WILL go socialist if they revolt. Those who would revolt are the uneducated and unskilled. They ALWAYS go socialist.
For the USA, oil = short hairs. And they got us by 'em, fellas.

Well look at it this way, the logistics are a lot less complex to protect our national interests in this hemisphere than in the Persian Gulf. If they go socialist and get pissy with their oil the little compesinos may end up wishing they had taken THR.

 

[liberty911]

Now, as far as the whole "guest worker" thing, I'll be the first to say that I'm not sure I understand it. If someone works in this country, and then goes back to Mexico, do they pay the same taxes I have to?

Yes, they have to have the same taxes taken ou of their check. Many times they use a fake SSN so they never receive the benefits, unless they later become legal and can prove they paid using the fake SSN. The problem is the employers often pay cash so no taxes are taken out.

Do the employers that employ them have to pay them the same minimum wages that every other business is subject to?

Yes, all person are entitled to the minimum wage. In some states that have prevailing wages, this means all workers, including illegals, myust be paid the minimum prevailing wage. This is set to scale, usually by union wages. This means illegals are often entitled to upwards of $27.00 per hour for laborer work. Agains, the employers do not comply with the minimum wage laws, tax laws, or overtime laws. The employers benefit by using illegals and take contracts away from legitimate contractors who use legal employees and pay the required wages.

Do the employees have to file the same I-9 form that I do?

They are requried to obtain a TIN and pay their fair share of taxes.

I've said it before, but the fight against illegal immigration is lost in trying to control the people from crossingthe boarders illegally. The politicians do not care. No wall is goingto stop them. Imposing penalities for tunnels is not going to stop them. The people will just return if their caught.

If you want to stop illegal immigration there is only one way that will work, and one way only.

Hold the employer criminally and civily liable.

Impose a mandatory 1 year prison term on any person who employes an undocumented alien and impose civil penalities on top of the imprisonment such as loss of a business licence, professional license and some fines. Currently there are nothing more than $25 or $50 fines imposed on employers if they are caught. This does nothing.

You want a problem to the illegal immigration, blame the contractor you hire to put on a roof and he shows up with 10 Mexicans to do the job. If it was not for the employer the Mexicans would not not there. Put the employer behind bars. He is no more innocent than the illegals but until the US imposes a punishment significant enough to deter the use of illegal workers, nothing will happen.

 

[CAnnoneer]

It amazes me to no end how some of you guys readily cherry-pick which laws should be followed and which shouldn't. Last time I checked, laws are laws, and the right thing to do is follow them and change them legally.

As far as the compassionate argument goes, sorry but life is hard. I can see how illegals are hardpressed to break our laws because of the dismal situation in their own countries. However, that does not make it any less necessary that we punish and discourage that breach. What is the alternative? The utopian dream of open borders? Have you checked statistics on the world population lately? Most of it is in dirt-poor disease-ridden hellholes. What will happen if these masses of unskilled destitute desperates wash over our borders? We will become the same dirt-poor disease-ridden hellholes. It is slowly happening.

Biker may be a bit rough on the edges, but he is fundamentally right.

You want to be compassionate? Write a big check to a charity, join the Red Cross, become a nun, join the Peace Corps, etc. But, don't undermine our laws or sabotage our society.

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

About here is where I usually quote Cactus Ed and make the thread gun-related:

Or if we must meddle, as we have always done, let us meddle for a change in a constructive way. Stop every campesino at our southern border, give him a handgun, a good rifle, and a case of ammunition, and send him home. He will know what to do with our gifts and good wishes. The people know who their enemies are. -- Edward Abbey, 1927-1989

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

My wife is a legal immigrant from Australia, had to go through immigration court and was almost deported because her brother had 6 months to go before becoming a citizen and being able to sponser her. The government didn't want this lady to become a financial liability to the government.

There are any number of honest immigrants who have had to go through hoops to get here no matter their conditions. They need respect of equal treatment.

Hmmm. Maybe we should support groups agitating for change in Mexico?

As far as the SSI and taxing matters go, has anyone bothered to count the number of illegals that are working a non-taxed underground economy vs those hired into tax paying slots? It is easy to go to the local BART stations or dozens of corners throughout the state to find day laborers waiting for jobs for which they pay no taxes or SSI.

 

[Strings]

>Most of the $50 is consumed by the background check process<

Sorry to veer for a second, but you ARE all aware that an NCIC background check costs a grand total of $18, right?

 

[NCP24]

What has happened in Los Angeles and hundreds of invaded cities will happen to most Americans in due time. This country fractures into more pieces than Humpty Dumpty, and once it happens, like a broken egg yoke, you can't put it back together again. God help us because we're in a world of hurt. http://www.rense.com/general69/outraged.htm

During the 1990s, North Carolina had the fastest growing Hispanic population of any state in the nation, growing from 76,726 in 1990 to 378,963 in 2000. That’s an increase of 393 percent. Four years later, the U.S. Census Bureau estimated the Hispanic population at 517,617.

Illegal immigration, primarily from Mexico, is responsible for the majority of that growth. The Washington D.C.-based Pew Hispanic Center has estimated that 300,000 people — roughly 65 percent of North Carolina’s Latino population — are illegal immigrants, based on the Census Bureau’s latest population estimates. No major Hispanic advocacy group has disputed Pew’s calculations. http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=2983

Pew Hispanic Center's latest figures for illegal immigrants in North Carolina is estimated at 395,000.

"I am outraged!" is a gross understatement. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[Standing Wolf]

Hey, I'm sure Jorge has a plan... doesn't he?

 

['Card]

Wrong! Instead of taking advantage of this country why don't they try changing what they dislike about their own country. If they are exploited, underemployed, over-taxed, whatever - revolt either at the ballot box or in the streets. And don't give me that hackneyed argument about no means, boot of the oppressor on the neck, etc. There are outside agents who would arm the oppressed - always has been always will be.

*snork*

Unless you're an American Indian or an African American, your ancestors came here because they thought "Hey, it sucks where we are. Why don't we go over there and see if we can build a better life for ourselves?" According to your logic, none of those people should have come over here. The pilgrims should have stayed in England and fought for religious tolerance. The Irish should have stayed in Ireland and fought the English until they stopped starving them to death. The English peasants should have stayed over there and fought the rigid caste system that kept most of them in poverty. It goes on and on and on. Escaping a miserable situation and going somewhere better is how all of us got here. Now we want to say "OK, that's enough. We've got our piece, so let's slam the door now."? Well, I guess some people do say that. I don't.

Pew Hispanic Center's latest figures for illegal immigrants in North Carolina is estimated at 395,000.

Yeah, I live and work in North Carolina. I see it every day, and personally, I think it's great. During that same time frame, North Carolina's economy has literally exploded. We're one of the fastest-growning states financially in the nation, with one of the nation's lowest unemployment rates, and a booming high-tech sector. Statewide, Hispanics account for fewer crimes per capita than any other minority group, and rival Caucasians (Whites) for low crime rate among ethnic groups, with Asians generally leading in that category.

Hard to believe we're doing so well when you consider how we're being "invaded" by "usurpers" plotting a "hostile takeover" in their "culture war", isn't it?

 

[NCP24]

Yeah, I live and work in North Carolina. I see it every day, and personally, I think it's great. During that same time frame, North Carolina's economy has literally exploded.

You’re absolutely right “During that same time frame” (1990 to say 1998) North Carolina's economy literally exploded. I believe we were listed as one of the top ten economic growth states in the US. However, this temporary economic boom had little if nothing to do with cheap labor from illegal aliens.

 

[Parkerized]

'Card,
I think your overlooking the fact that they're ILLEGAL. I don't think anyone here has had a problem with any legal immigrants. The profit your making off of this illegal activity has apparently blinded you,which may be why you don't feel hostile towards them anymore. The part you said about rather it was fair or not to let them pay into SS if they never can get it back. Yes ,its fair it's the cost of being ILLEGAL. By the way, I'm in construction in N.C. also and a big part of what I see is under the table as you would have to know as I'm sure it's that way all over NC. Where I am ya get what ya pay for,I do finish behind alot of these illegal immigrant workers and it is sub standard to say the least and I generally work on 5,000-8,000 sq. ft multi million dollar houses.

+ 100 to Biker, I agree with you fully.

Parkerized

 

[wingman]

Yeah, I live and work in North Carolina. I see it every day, and personally, I think it's great. During that same time frame, North Carolina's economy has literally exploded. We're one of the fastest-growning states financially in the nation, with one of the nation's lowest unemployment rates, and a booming high-tech sector.

I'm guessing your a roofing contractor, tile perhaps.?

Hispanics account for fewer crimes per capita than any other minority group,

Are those stats for legal or illegal.?

[QUOTE Where I am ya get what ya pay for,I do finish behind alot of these illegal immigrant workers and it is sub standard to say the least and I generally work on 5,000-8,000 sq. ft multi million dollar houses.
][/QUOTE]

I wish you could view some homes in my area built with illegal labor, some
of the poorest quality I have seen in years, in many cases worse then
mobile homes.

Once again if you hire illegal labor you are hurting the average taxpayer
and our country.............