I am so tempted-- is there any hope for this unloved revolver?

[AZAndy]

Local shop has this ancient S&W in "gunsmith special" condition for $150. Is there any hope for it? The grip safety doesn't depress and the firing pin doesn't retract. It's in S&W .32, which I already know is a bit problematic. I don't know the year, but it's a Safety Hammerless 1st Model with a serial number of 58---.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Unless I miss my guess...

... and there's a particular collector value premium on this - $150 is too high for a "project grade" and that's taking into account that I'm one of the most liberal appraisers you'll find on this board.


Todd.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I know it can be tempting to buy something when it shows up locally, but there are plenty of these out there. I have two of them.

This one is a 2nd Model, it shipped in August of 1905. It is in immaculate condition, the bore and chambers are spotless, and every thing works, plus it came with the original box.

I don't remember exactly what I paid for it, probably around $300.

Parts for these can be difficult to find, most folks buy junkers like that and cannibalize them for parts.

If you have your heart set on a 32 Safety Hammerless, I would keep looking.

 

[armoredman]

There is a gunsmith in Mesa who has successfully rebuilt several Suicide Specials. Here's a few he rescued from conditions far worse than that, including having to hand make the hammer for the Bulldog.





He'd be able to rebuild that one easily...but ApacheCoTodd is absolutely correct, $150 is way too much. $50 would be far more appropriate.

 

[Panzerschwein]

$150 is on the high side, as others have mentioned. You might be able to talk them down, but if I were you, I'd look elsewhere for one. Gunbroker is a great source.

 

[walnut1704]

With enough money, anything is possible. But that does not mean it's a good idea.

 

[Old Fuff]

Actually in pristine condition I've seen them go for between $350 to $400.

The lockwork is delicate, with lots of easily broken small springs, and I suspect the tip is broken off the body of the firing pin. That's not a big deal, but some other issues could be.

A good soak in some Marvel Mystery Oil after You'd carefully removed the grips might free up the grip safety. The oil can be obtained at many Automobile Supply Shops and WalMart, and is not expensive and can be reused. Taking one apart and getting it back together can drive a preacher to strong drink...

It has a long and interesting history, but would be a poor choice for a user/shooter.

At $150 it's a gamble. If you got it working you could probably get what you paid for it and perhaps a little more. Otherwise the parts in it are probably worth between $75 to $100 to an interested party trying to fix a better one.

 

[Jim K]

IIRC, those guns have a frame mounted firing pin, so the problem could be as simple as a broken firing pin return spring, a common problem.

I am not sure I would pay $150 for that gun, but if they came down to $100 I would snap it up. But then, I could probably repair it at no cost except my cheap (retired) labor. Even it can't be repaired, it is worth something for the education in how those guns work.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

It could be the spring, but both the .32 and .38 Safety Hammerless revolvers have/had a reputation for breaking firing pins if dry fired very much. Smith & Wesson changed the pin's design later in (I believe) the 1920's to prevent the problem - with only modest success.

For $100 or less I would buy it too - for the same reasons Jim would.

As an aside: I was at a gun show one time and spotted an original box for one of these. I was seriously interest in getting it for $30 until the seller pointed out that the price was $300 - for the box (that was in excellent condition considering its age) and nothing more. I passed.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I have one made around 1915 32cal 90% Nickle finish left with real stag grips . I have fired it . I paid 150 for it .
Look around or buy and go for it . Their fun to shoot . and better than a 22 in pocket

 

[joem1945]

Offer $95.00 and have cash in hand. all they can say is NO. Then walk. come back a week later for a box of .22 lr and see if it's still there.

 

[RaceM]

I've resurrected guns in way worse condition than that. But that ain't no $150 worth. I'd only go about $75-80 on it.

 

[gspn]

I see two ways of looking at it. One is from a business decision standpoint, and the other is from a "fun project" standpoint.

From a business standpoint consider what it takes to break-even.

For example, if you pay $150 to buy it, and think the gun will be worth $250 when you're finished rebuilding it, and you spend $200 worth of parts and time on it, then you've put $350 into a gun worth $250...and you've lost $100...even if you don't plan on selling it.

If on the other hand this is just a fun project...then you decide how much you want to spend on it. I'd still use the "fair value" approach above that takes into consideration how much it will be worth when you're done just so you don't get carried away. However, if it's a fun learning opportunity there's nothing wrong with spending some money.

Personally, given the value that Driftwood provided, I wouldn't spend $150 on the gun. Offer him half of that figure and see where it goes.

 

[Jim K]

A couple of years ago I got one of those first model, 2-inch nickel, NIB with a revolver purse for $600, and thought I did OK.

Jim

 

[ofitg]

There is a gunsmith in Mesa who has successfully rebuilt several Suicide Specials. Here's a few he rescued from conditions far worse than that, including having to hand make the hammer for the Bulldog.

Armoredman, that's a fine-looking Bulldog in your photo!

If you don't mind me asking, who is that gunsmith in Mesa? I might take a Bulldog to him someday....

 

[Old Fuff]

Before anyone considers buying one of these for a fun project, they better do some homework and find out what specialized tools (such as a set of cup-pointed pin punches for one example) are needed, and the exact particulars involved in taking one apart and putting it back together.

They are neat little revolvers, but they can test you're frustration level. :banghead:

 

[bigshark14]

There is a gunsmith in Mesa who has successfully rebuilt several Suicide Specials. Here's a few he rescued from conditions far worse than that, including having to hand make the hammer for the Bulldog.





He'd be able to rebuild that one easily...but ApacheCoTodd is absolutely correct, $150 is way too much. $50 would be far more appropriate.

Please share his info. I actually own an old Iver frame similar to the black gun pictured

 

[WestKentucky]

I bought a sack of parts that was a complete but disassembled 4th model "safety hammerless" which is actually and properly called the Smith and Wesson New Departure 38 hammerless double action. It is beautiful, and I paid $100...and in 2 years I haven't found a replacement for the broken cylinder stop. I have made 3 functional parts out of soft steel. My attempts at harder metals have not yielded functional parts.

For 150 I would not even give it a second thought. Your likely dealing with multiple parts needing repair or replacement, most of which are going to be handmade affairs. If a man were to offer me 150 for mine I wouldn't miss it, but I have enjoyed the fits and fights with getting it going.

 

[Jim K]

That gunsmith who restores old time guns is probably retired on a good pension from a business other than gunsmithing. I pretty much stopped working on the old timers when several customers got the bill and told me "hell, the gun ain't worth that, keep the darned thing". The problem is that the time and labor is the same whether the gun is worth $50 or $5000.

I once made one of those "curvy" cylinder stops (Driftwood and Fuff will know what I mean), but mostly just to see if I could do it. I did, but won't do it again.

Jim

 

[armoredman]

H'es not retired, but works lots of hours on his real job, so they are a sideline. He's on this forum, when he can. LAGS.

 

[Old Fuff]

I pretty much stopped working on the old timers when several customers got the bill and told me "hell, the gun ain't worth that, keep the darned thing". The problem is that the time and labor is the same whether the gun is worth $50 or $5000.

Been there, done that too...

People who will spend a fortune fixing an old truck or car get huffy when a gunsmith won't agree to fix a well over-the-hill gun they expect to be repaired on a dime-on-the-dollar basis. This apparently is because working on guns is so much fun the 'smith should pay them for the privilege of doing whatever... Often the next step is to try and dicker the quoted price down.

One individual I remember came in with a well worn, early 20th century top break revolver made by a company that was long gone. I explained that it would be unlikely that I could find parts. "Well," he said, "I thought you were a gunsmith... Can't you make parts?" I assured him I could, and quoted a price.

He went out the door like his tail was on fire.

I once made one of those "curvy" cylinder stops (Driftwood and Fuff will know what I mean), but mostly just to see if I could do it. I did, but won't do it again.

I do indeed, and I wouldn't touch the job with a 10-foot pole. S&W top-break's are filled with parts that would impress a Swiss watchmaker.