I can hit the broadside of the barn with my CZ 75 Retro (need grip/shooting advice)

[dxkj21]

But not much else (This is at 7 yards)

Update with new pictures after following the advice in this thread/links

First night, my best 2 targets

2 days later, my best two targets

A big difference since the first trip, and I understand the trigger and the method now at least... before I was just yanking the trigger and taking the whole gun with me... now Im trying to touch it off with my finger tip and I can feel each stage of the pull, including the part where the hammer goes back a tiny bit before going forward (I believe)


Previous portion of post quoted down

I dont have trouble with the neos, as you can see out of 80 shots I didnt miss the blue even once...


But with the 9mm I KNOW I saw my barrel end dip each time, hence all the low shots.... Is there a certain grip, or stance, or anything I can do to stop this? Usually when I grip LESS tightly i hit closer to my target.... I wont even show you my targets in the beginning when I was gripping tight and would miss the paper entirely

Those were the last 46 rounds out of 150 that I shot in those two pictures.... The neos I was cranking out rapid fire and had no problems hitting right where I wanted to...

Any advice on keeping the barrel from dipping? Any grip advice, EVERYTHINg would be much appreciated.

PS The CZ75 Retro DOES trigger slap, after the first two mags my finger felt sore from the slapback... kinda odd.. No hammer bite at all on me, so that at least wasnt an issue I fit all 16 into each clip without TOO much problem

 

[GregGry]

What distance were you shooting at? If I were to take out my contacts, put it out to 7 yards, and loosely aim, I could duplicate that pattern to a T. If you can see the front sight, and the target, I would say your problem is your grip, and anticipating recoil. You might be using to much trigger finger as well.

 

[Mulliga]

The range you were shooting at is important. If those were 25 yard groups, I'd say you are doing okay for your first time out. But if they aren't...

Try this tutorial (lessons 1 and 2) for the basics:

http://www.americanshooter.com/Features/features.html

I prefer holding my right hand's thumb in low, since the CZ safety is somewhat forward compared to a 1911.

The grip should be firm, but it shouldn't be a "death grip." Think of holding a hammer.

The front sight is very important. The target should be a blur. Get the front sight (aligned with the rears) into the center of the blur.

You should be surprised when the shot breaks. Press/squeeze the trigger. When you start out, you'll have to do this slowly, but as you improve, you can go faster and faster without jerking the gun.

Your Neos is probably inherently more accurate than your CZ - don't expect the CZ to even equal it.

 

[Jamie C.]

Are you sure it's trigger slap, or are you anticipating the extra flash/recoil of the 9mm ( vs. the .22 ) and not only flinching, but squeezing the trigger way harder than you need to? That would account for shots going low....

The only way out of these habits is lots of practice.... both "Live fire" and "dry fire".


J.C.

 

[hkmp5g17]

There was a time.......long ago...... when I had the same barn predicament. Then a wise fellow(I can still see his face) recommended this to me-

Son-go INSIDE the barn! What a revelation.


I'm proud to anounce that I NOW CAN hit the broadside of a barn....most of the time!:banghead:

 

[Beetle Bailey]

I recommend switching the plastic grips on your CZ for the factory rubber grips if you haven't already done so. They make holding the gun and shooting it much easier.

Also, if you are catching yourself dipping the gun down, you might benefit from more dry-fire practice. I really like CZ75 pistols and bought my second one a few months ago, but the triggers don't break as clean as I'd like out of the box. However, they do improve quite a bit after about 1000 trigger pulls. So why not dry-fire 1000 times before you shoot live ammo again?

 

[Jamie C.]

I'm proud to anounce that I NOW CAN hit the broadside of a barn....most of the time!:banghead:

That "most of the time" would explain why the barn roof has so many holes in it, I guess....


J.C.

 

[Lucky 7]

lol GregGry Im the same way w/ the contacts!
Biggest thing I see with the (fairly new) shooter is the FLINCH! uh oh the f-word! This is caused by selfinduced stress. so just relax! and dry fire a lot!
Semper Fi!
-L7

 

[PCRCCW]

Ok.....couple of grip/trigger pointers for you...since your a CZ guy.

Put a 9mm case on the top of the slide by the front site of your gun and pull the trigger.........UNLOAD THE GUN FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!
Practice pulling the trigger SA/DA until you can do it repeatedly without the shell falling.....now increase your speed while doing it. This will help you trigger controll.

When gripping the gun.......squeeze the grip 60% with your weak hand while forgetting about your thumb and pinkie. Sounds strange but you can do it..
Now do the other 40% with your strong hand. More grip with your weak hand.
Youll be amazed at what this does once you get it right.

Now go practice..................Shoot well.

 

[dxkj21]

Are you sure it's trigger slap, or are you anticipating the extra flash/recoil of the 9mm ( vs. the .22 ) and not only flinching, but squeezing the trigger way harder than you need to? That would account for shots going low....

The only way out of these habits is lots of practice.... both "Live fire" and "dry fire".


J.C.

I wasnt squeezing too hard, I was using the tip of my finger to lightly squeeze the trigger until it fired.... and my finger got sore pretty quickly

 

[dxkj21]

I recommend switching the plastic grips on your CZ for the factory rubber grips if you haven't already done so. They make holding the gun and shooting it much easier.

Also, if you are catching yourself dipping the gun down, you might benefit from more dry-fire practice. I really like CZ75 pistols and bought my second one a few months ago, but the triggers don't break as clean as I'd like out of the box. However, they do improve quite a bit after about 1000 trigger pulls. So why not dry-fire 1000 times before you shoot live ammo again?

Im definitely going to pick up some grips... as far as dry firing it came with 2 snap caps with interchangeable green centers (fake primers). After 1-2 snaps these have a solid indentation in them, how often do i need to change those out to prevent damage ?

 

[Mulliga]

As I said in that previous thread, it's best to get some real snap caps before you start in with the heavy dry-fire sessions. I'm guessing those CZ snap caps could take a dozen or so impacts for each side, but a purpose built snap cap will have an internal spring and will be made of much stronger stuff - probably much more protection for the firing pin roll pin.

The trigger slap is troubling. Try having an experienced handgun shooter run some mags through it - see if he/she has the same problem.

 

[dxkj21]

Im going to pick up some real snap caps too. Ive run these plastic ones through at 10 smacks per side, so 20 per greenie, about 160 dry fires so far. 150 real fired.

 

[faustulus]

I have three CZs and have never used a snap cap (in any gun for that matter). I've pulled the trigger on my match gun (CZ 85 Combat) probably 30,000-40,000 times in pratice.
Only firing pin I have ever broke was on a Sig 229, but that was after 10 years of dry firing.
But do what makes you feel most comfortable.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

I have no idea how long the snap-caps that come with the gun last since I've never used them. But the aftermarket snap-caps last a good long time .

 

[dxkj21]

I have three CZs and have never used a snap cap (in any gun for that matter). I've pulled the trigger on my match gun (CZ 85 Combat) probably 30,000-40,000 times in pratice.
Only firing pin I have ever broke was on a Sig 229, but that was after 10 years of dry firing.
But do what makes you feel most comfortable.

If the general consensus is that I dont need it, thats fine, but the company provided 2 snap caps, so Im assuming they want me to use them?

 

[KC&97TA]

I had a P944 Ruger .40, couldn't hit a solid group with it. I would drop silver dollar groups with my Kimber, shoot 4" groups @25 yards with my 9mm beretta and shoot quarter size groups @10 yards with the 22lr on the beretta.

How I fixed the problem, I sold the Ruger

 

[Mulliga]

If the general consensus is that I dont need it, thats fine, but the company provided 2 snap caps, so Im assuming they want me to use them?

Some CZs can take a lot of dry-firing with no snap caps with no problems (especially the ones with the doubled roll pins). That said, I use snap caps in all my pistols - they're cheap, last a long time, and I figure it couldn't hurt to use them. I also find that dummy rounds make malfunction drills and such a bit easier (though admittedly you could just use empty brass).

 

[dxkj21]

Some CZs can take a lot of dry-firing with no snap caps with no problems (especially the ones with the doubled roll pins). That said, I use snap caps in all my pistols - they're cheap, last a long time, and I figure it couldn't hurt to use them. I also find that dummy rounds make malfunction drills and such a bit easier (though admittedly you could just use empty brass).

If snap caps are meant to be deformed, but you get ones that dont get deformed, isnt it harder on the firing pin striking those harder material snap caps?

 

[ZenMasterJG]

No, cuz the "primer" part of the snap cap is mounted on a spring, so it lessens the impact on the firing pin parts without permanently deforming the cap.

 

[dxkj21]

No, cuz the "primer" part of the snap cap is mounted on a spring, so it lessens the impact on the firing pin parts without permanently deforming the cap.

Ah ok... and the fact that it has something to stop it keeps it from putting pressure on the retention pins that hold the firing pin from shooting all the way forward?

 

[dxkj21]

bump with update from today, doing much better, just need to practice grip and trigger pull.


I never realized how important pulling the trigger was :banghead:

 

[dxkj21]

New question, where to aim?

With 3 dot sights, or standard iron sights, you fill the rear sight with the front sight to make it solid, but then do you place the tip of the font slight just below where you want to shoot?

What I have been doing is looking with both eyes, and in a 3 dot sight Ive been lining up the 3 dots and putting the center dot dead OVERLAPPING where the bullseye is... should I really be doing this with one eye and having the tip of the sight with the center dot be cutting the bullseye in half?