I Changed My Springs

[kngflp]

I changed out the main spring and the trigger spring on my Taurus 650 last night. I also went over the internal parts with some 600 grt sandpaper. This yieded quite a large improvment in the trigger. I put 140 rounds of mixed .357 and .38+p through it today with no light strikes at all. The gun performed flawlessly, I on the other hand had a bad day shooting due to my new found seasonal allergies which keep my eyes quite gunky and distorted.

So is this gun worthy of carry yet, I usually run 5X that through an auto before carry. I found some Winchester .38+p 158 grn lead wad cutters and I think I got a keeper, they do smoke much more than anything else I tried. Is 19.99 too high for a box of 50?

 

[Sheldon]

I just changed the springs on my S&W 686. I swapped out the rebound slide spring first, but that did not help as much as I had hoped, so I got the Wilson reduced spring kit from Brownell's and swapped the mainspring out too. Now it is a lot lighter and in about 300 rounds at the range (my reloads), I had one light hit that went off on the second try. It may just have been a high primer, but I am not certain. They were loaded with the older chromed Winchester primers. I got the Miculek 'Trigger Job' DVD and may try some of the light stoning on some of the internals, but it is so nice now I may not bother.

 

[KarbineKrazy]

What would be another good DA .357 for me?

I really like shooting double action .357s, I have a 4 inch and 6 inch ruger Six series.

I think I'd like something with a little more weight for better balance. I plan to carry the 4 inch Ruger when I turn 21 cause it's a good weight. I think it's right around 35 ounces.

I like the 4 inch barrel, but I wouldn't mind something with a full underlug. Is a 686 the way to go?

 

[Majic]

KarbineKrazy,
Since you already have a Ruger why not stay with the brand? Try a GP-100 since it is heavier and have the full lug that you want.

kngflp,
I wouldn't deem it ready to carry until you have run a sufficient number of your chosen carry rounds thru it with no malfunctions.

 

[Standing Wolf]

So is this gun worthy of carry yet, I usually run 5X that through an auto before carry.

150 rounds would be enough to convince me a revolver's carry-worthy. I'd want to put more than that through a semi-automatic, since they're inherently less dependable.

 

[KarbineKrazy]

oops, I didn't mean to thread hi jack. I'll pick up a GP100 at the range next time I'm there.

 

[Old Fuff]

The Old Fuff has said this before, but he'll say it again ...

Yes, the factory springs are heavier, and yes you can make the action feel lighter is you install aftermarket springs. But the factory put those heavy springs in for a reason. They wanted to be sure that the hammer would bust ANY primer under ANY circumstances. If you lower the spring tensions you take away that safety factor. If the revolver in question is a play-toy there is no reason you shouldn't change the springs, but a light hammer hit on the wrong primer could get you a hang-fire, and if you were shooting fast the result could be a blown-up gun. Yes, I've seen it happen.

On Smith & Wesson's, if the rebound slide spring is lightened too much the trigger may not go forward fast enough to engage the cylinder stop, and if this happens the action will be frozen solid.

Any coil spring can take a set over time, and if one is on the thin side of working, it may stop working unexpectedly, and with little or no warning.

If you want to fool with the springs in a revolver that's carried or used as a weapon, that's your business. But firing say 200 rounds through it now doesn't mean it will keep ticking a year from now, or five years from now.

One misfire at the wrong time could cost you a lot.

Think about it ...

 

[kngflp]

Old Fuff, I am new to revolvers and their workings, what different conditions, besides fatigue, would cause a spring that used to do it's job to not do it's job? I am genuinely intrested, not trying to pick at your reasoning, as I know you have guns older than me.

The trigger does feel better, but it's not a day/night difference, I was thinking about going back to a stock mainspring and seeing how it felt.

 

[Old Fuff]

Take two identical coil springs (or at least two of the same kind that look identical.) Then fully compress one of them in a vise. Let it set awhile and then unclamp it. Usually when you compare it to the other spring you will find that it's shorter. This is because the spring that was clamped took a set.

It doesn't exactly work that way in guns, but it will show my point. Some, but not all springs are sometimes given a pre-set after they are wound, but you have no way of knowing this.

Each time you cock the hammer both the main spring and the trigger return spring (as well as others) are compressed and then relaxed (unless you leave the hammer cocked over a long period of time, which isn't a good idea.)

The springs that are installed by the factory takes all of this into consideration so for all practical purposes it doesn't matter because they have a safety margin built in.

But if (big "IF") you substitute a lighter spring that barely works to start with, a slight set may cause it to become unreliable. Have I seen this happen? Sure have, but it isn't a common condition.

However if a handgun is, or may be used as a weapon only a foolish person would take a chance by altering the springs in his/her revolver (or whatever).

What about gunsmiths (and I mean the real ones who know what they are doing)? Yes, then can lighten and smooth an action without getting into trouble. But they know exactly how far they can go, and so-called "street packages" often do not have altered springs.

Another factor is that the factory springs are balanced against each other. It is a practice among some to get a lighter bull by cutting back the trigger return spring and leaving the mainspring alone. But again, if this is taken too far you may hang up the gun during a string of fast double-action firing because you start pulling the trigger backwards before it has returned all of the way forward.

There is a difference between "lighter," and "smoother." If it is CORRECTLY done a smoothed action will feel lighter even though it isn't. This is the best of all worlds.

There is a lot more to making a smooth (reasonably) light double action pull then simply changing out some springs. And if an action job is done wrong you may end up with an unreliable and even ruined gun. I have seen revolvers that were polished to the point of destruction, and the cost of almost total replacement of the lockwork sure got the owner's attention.

Oh, and never hesitate to ask questions. Answers are part of what this forum is for.

 

[BluesBear]

Amen!

There is a lot more to making a smooth (reasonably) light double action pull then simply changing out some springs.

I'm surprised that hasn't been carved on more than a few tombstones.

 

[Sheldon]

I have been having a few rounds of my reloads not fire, but I don't consider this my "protection" weapon. I am really happy with the difference the spring changes have made in my 686. I will have to pay extra attention to seating the primers in my reloads to be sure that is not part of the issue. I went out today and went through about 150 rounds and had 2 light hits..one went off on the second try and the other took two extra hits to go off.....so there does seem to be some reliability problem.

 

[Old Fuff]

Sheldon:

If you get a light hit and nothing more happens you may be fine. But if that light hit results in a hang-fire (primer ignition is delayed) and you cock the hammer (with your thumb or double action) and fire the next round just as the first one cooks off ...

Well the least of your troubles will be a totally ruined gun.

 

[roo_ster]

Hmmm, I don't think I'd change the springs on my Taurus snubbie (651 Total Ti). Out of the box, the trigger is better than the S&W snubbies out of the box.

What I did do was buy some snap caps & spend a couple evenings dry firing the snot out of it in front of the idiot box. The trigger pull got even smoother than when new. I'm satisfied.

My S&W686, I had a competent gunsmith give it a trigger job before I even shot it. It had a serious case of "lawyer trigger" and my smithy chased out all those lawyerly demons with a set of springs similar to what older stock S&Ws would have had. He also polished up all the appropriate surfaces. It has a better trigger than the Taurus, which is to be expected, given the different lockwork. Its trigger is not as good as the S&W 3" M66 PC S&W let out a couple years ago, however. Now THAT is a good trigger out of the box!