I edited the language and changed his identity but here is the convo. It is indeed very long so skip if you don't want. I thought it might make someone laugh so I saved it.
jjt 1081: hey
other guy: hey
other guy: who's this?
jjt 1081: the other joe onusfbs
other guy: 45joe?
jjt 1081: yeah
other guy: oh ok
other guy: whats up?
jjt 1081: nada ... you know we kinda got off on the wrong foot...so i'm
suggesting we call a truce and proceed without any d^%$headedness (is that a
word?) from now on...because debating with you was fun about the guns
other guy: yeah I dont hold grudges or anything
other guy: so no big deal
jjt 1081: cool
jjt 1081: so i gotta ask....you say restrictions are necessary for owning the
evil looking guns...now, is that everyone or what? for instance me who has a
perfectly clean record and owns an entire arsenal basically
jjt 1081: just curious
other guy: well basically restrict guns that really shouldnt be in the hands
of the everyday gun owner
other guy: there should be lots of classes and restrictions and background
checks to own high powered or 'assault' (meaning automatic or whatever) weapons
other guy: not strictly banned I guess
other guy: I know they can be fun to shoot
other guy: I have shot an AK47 before
jjt 1081: aah cool so you do understand my side
jjt 1081: see im not against background checks or anything
other guy: yeah but they really shouldnt be easy to get
other guy: thats all
jjt 1081: felons should not own guns
jjt 1081: but i dont like being treated as a felon
other guy: well yeah but theres a difference in having to put up with security
at the airport and having to put up with security for weapons such as those
jjt 1081: ?
jjt 1081: i dont follow
other guy: just that gun owners should have to have extensive checks...and I
know those dont always work
other guy: some people snap and had no marks on their record before
other guy: but automatic or highpowered weapons should not be easy to get at
all
other guy: they shouldnt be sold on ebay or at pawn shops or gun shows
jjt 1081: all a gun show does is bring all the licensed gun shops to one central
location to peddle their wares. there are no laws governing private sales of
firearms in this state so private parties (i.e. the attendants) can sell to
other private parties if they want....there is no real gun show "loophole"
other guy: the private parties should not be able to sell those weapons
jjt 1081: now what you should also know is the ar-15 is about one of the weakest
rifle rounds out there....in fact, as far as military rounds go it is the
weakest...it's nothing more than a .22 going really fast
other guy: I of course dotn knwo all the types of restrictions we can put on
them but yeah
other guy: well...it goes really fast
jjt 1081: it just looks scary
jjt 1081: thats all
other guy: thats the main thing
other guy: the speed
other guy: why else would you need the speed?
other guy: novelty or killing
other guy: one of those two..and I undertsnad the novelty...but novelty should
not come above safety
jjt 1081: there are no restrictions on other novelties, this should be the same.
we don't live in the 3rd world countries where civilians are not allowed to own
military calibre weapons
other guy: novelties such as?
other guy: bazookas?
other guy: dude...we're talking about guns here
jjt 1081: how about 400 horsepower cobra mustangs
other guy: not novelty cars
jjt 1081: they kill just as much when a "stupid" person gets behind the wheel
other guy: cars were built for transportation
other guy: guns were built to kill
other guy: theres a huge difference in the purpose
other guy: and practicality
other guy: thats what I was trying to get across earlier
jjt 1081: where does it stop, though? ban butcher knives? what about baseball
bats?
other guy: they wertent built to kill Joe
other guy: werent
jjt 1081: they can and have been used to kill
other guy: other than novelty and hunting (which is a novelty in itself) a gun
serves no practical purpose
other guy: a knife does
jjt 1081: yeah but you are giving the inanimate object a character, personality
and purpose
other guy: your argument doesnt make sense Joe
jjt 1081: it takes the human being to act with it
other guy: ok...bazookas
other guy: meant to kill
jjt 1081: ok take a bazooka, load it and put it on a table and stare at it
other guy: but since its an inanimate object they should be legal
other guy: ??
jjt 1081: it will not do anything on its own
other guy: tanks?
other guy: nukes?
other guy: so?
other guy: I know the whole NRA bull???? line
other guy: guns dont kill people...people do
jjt 1081: but its true...no gun has mysteriously killed anyone
other guy: no?
other guy: no gun has ever gone off on accident?
other guy: no gun has been discharged completely lacking human interaction?
jjt 1081: people have killed while using guns, but guns themselves don't kill on
their own
other guy: Joe...listen to this point and think about it
other guy: guns serve NO purpose other than killing
jjt 1081: no...prove one has since it would take some force to pul the trigger
or drop the hammer
other guy: a gun drops off the table when something falls
other guy: goes off
other guy: shoots someone in the chest
other guy: Im sure its happened joe...dont deny it
other guy: and accidents happen with other practical things
other guy: the difference being PRACTICALITY
jjt 1081: perhaps an old western 6 shooter that is being stored
incorrectly...maybe an older handgun...no "assault" rifle will...they all have
integral firing pin blocks
jjt 1081: as do almost every handgun sold these days besides the "niche" market
guns
other guy: joe...my point is...ssafety needs to be imposed on weapons
other guy: weather it be restrictions on high powered or automatic weapons
other guy: or simply locked cases for other guns
jjt 1081: i have no problems with making safety rules
other guy: guns are not practical and the 2nd amendment is outdated and
pointless now
jjt 1081: but bans don't work
jjt 1081: look at prohibition
other guy: I know
jjt 1081: look at the "war" on drugs
other guy: I said restrictions
other guy: I havent said ban this entire time
jjt 1081: ok...prescription meds
jjt 1081: they are "restricted"
other guy: believe me Im against drug prohibition
jjt 1081: tell me i can't go get some zanex right now
jjt 1081: the criminals will always have their guns
jjt 1081: no matter what
other guy: buts its much harder than if it was over the counter now isnt it
joe?
jjt 1081: restricting the law abiding citizens does nothing for safety
other guy: restrictions restrict the usage
other guy: it doesnt stop it
other guy: Im not so blind that I think we can stop guin violence
other guy: but we can lessen it
jjt 1081: yeah...but look at how much money is wasted in this war on drugs and
tell me it is really working to the point it should continue
jjt 1081: or is being anywhere near successful
other guy: so you are agaisnt any gun restrictions?
other guy: the difference between guns and drugs mainly is drugs are
banned...and guns are restricted
jjt 1081: background checks are fine by me. other than that yes i am
jjt 1081: no, there are banned guns
other guy: and also...guns are manufactured and the high powered or automatic
ones are expensive
jjt 1081: there are 19 "assault" rifles banned by name
jjt 1081: ok this assault weapons ban that expires in sept.
other guy: yeah I got a bunch of emails abouit it
other guy: about
jjt 1081: ok check it out
jjt 1081: it bans high capacity magazines, flash suppressors, bayonet lugs and
collapsable stocks
jjt 1081: http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/rentry.gif
jjt 1081: look at the one on the bottom, which is available at any gun shop to
the public
jjt 1081: and the top one which is available only to law enforcement because it
is banned
other guy: Im nto saying gun legislation has been effective
other guy: and I cant propose the legislation either
other guy: because Im not that knowledgeable about guns themselves
other guy: but the higher end weapons need special restrictions that keep as
many as they can off of the street and only in gun ranges
jjt 1081: ok, ok look at this
jjt 1081: http://www.surplusrifle.com/sks/graphics/romanian/s/title.gif
jjt 1081: tell me how you would describe that rifle
other guy: and I know half of the banned items are easily made
other guy: the point is...it lessens there numbers out there
other guy: and you wouldnt deny that that helps a bit in crimes and the
severity of those crimes
jjt 1081: yes, i have to...a gun is a gun. there are no magical bullets...just
crazy ???????s who do not belong on the streets
jjt 1081: but please do me the favor of telling me how you would describe that
rifle
other guy: small magazine rifle with a bayonette
other guy: probably a slide action loading
jjt 1081: anything particularly evil about it?
other guy: bayonette isnt cool but you can make a makeshift one easily
other guy: its just a knife
jjt 1081: exactly
other guy: Im nto talking about bayonettes though
jjt 1081: but other than that you would say it's an average run of the mill
rifle
jjt 1081: nothing special
jjt 1081: yes/no?
other guy: Im talking about the guns that shoot 30 bullets in a second and can
take down a crowd in a couple clips
other guy: mostly yes...it looks to be high calibre
jjt 1081: it's a russian sks
other guy: caliber
other guy: I cant type
jjt 1081: turn of the century army battle rifle
jjt 1081: eh, i say calibre too
jjt 1081: its cool
jjt 1081: http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/images/0501.jpg
jjt 1081: ok look at that one
jjt 1081: and you know what it is
other guy: yeah...and the 30 shot magazine and fire rate make for a deadly
weapon
jjt 1081: essentially the same action
jjt 1081: the ak was designed off the sks
other guy: but its totally different because of the fire rate
jjt 1081: kalashnikov only copied the design and compacted the gun and added a
pistol grip
other guy: thats what makes it deadly
jjt 1081: an sks will fire as fast as you pull the trigger
jjt 1081: so will an ak
other guy: fire rate and clip size I guess
jjt 1081: so will my antiquated m1 garand
jjt 1081: an sks can hold a 30 round ak magazine...just need a mag adapter
jjt 1081: which is little more than a piece of metal to hold it in place
other guy: yeah I understand Joe
other guy: Im just saying that those types of weapons need to be restricted
other guy: I know legislation now is pretty stupid
other guy: but it needs to be reformed
jjt 1081: but we are guaranteed the freedom to own what we want...the
constitution says so
jjt 1081: we are not the uk, canadia or australia
other guy: then I want a damn nuke!
other guy: Im just saying joe...where does it stop?
jjt 1081: a nuke is not a military small arm
other guy: exactly
other guy: weapons ARE restricted
jjt 1081: it is a bomb which is not protected by any law and is strictly
prohibited
other guy: and probably at the wrong points
other guy: and why Joe?
other guy: why is it prohibited and not a gun that shoots 30 rounds a second?
jjt 1081: well, you are a little off it takes an m-16 3.2 seconds to empty a 30
rounder .. but it shouldn't be BANNED because the constitution says my right to
bear arms shall not be infringed
other guy: well thats not the fastest weapon out there
other guy: but yeah
jjt 1081: not many faster
other guy: that wasnt my point
jjt 1081: itr is one of the fastest
other guy: gatling guns and all
other guy: ok not the argument at hand
jjt 1081: used to be faster but the mlitary went from ball to stick powder
because the guns jammed
jjt 1081: see, you say restriction but you aren't telling me how you want to
restrict. you say not ban but approve of me not being able to own a real m16?
yes?
jjt 1081: the "normal" gun owner is not a psycho killer
other guy: I know
other guy: but letting anyone own a gun puts them into the hands of those
psycho killers
other guy: Im for restrictions...and honestly...I dont know what exactly they
would be
jjt 1081: do research on states with concealed carry licenses...find the number
of licenses revoked due to felony convictions of permit holders (not necessarily
violent just felony)
jjt 1081: it is extreamly insignificant
jjt 1081: ok what about ccl holders?
jjt 1081: my finger prints are in the fbi computers
jjt 1081: i went through extensive background checks on both the state and
federal levels
other guy: there may be enough restrictions...there may not
other guy: I cant say exactly
jjt 1081: and i was approved
other guy: but I think that restrictions for the guns Im talking about should
be very strict
jjt 1081: i had to take the safety class, etc
other guy: that really is all I have on the subject
other guy: except for training like you just mentioned
jjt 1081: ok so i got a ccl which means i was thoroughly checked, have taken the
safety class, have committed no crimes....should i then be able to own an m16
just for the recreational usage i would like?
other guy: probably more courses and more restrictions...such as a check on
the weapon every year or so
other guy: to make sure you havent sold it
other guy: that sort of thing
other guy: and no buying in bulk of course
jjt 1081: eh...i can almost agree to that
jjt 1081: but it's too big brother
other guy: DUDE
jjt 1081: which i know you are against
other guy: its guns
other guy: not f#$@ing cars or anything
other guy: Im against the whole government intervention in my private life
jjt 1081: then why should they intervene in mine?
other guy: but intervention in the safety of its citizens in domestic matters
is important
jjt 1081: you smoke a joint because you want to...it's recreational
other guy: because owning an m16 is not private
other guy: thats a very dangerous weapon
jjt 1081: i load up some mags, head to the range and blast paper...it's
recreational
other guy: a joint isnt going to kill 40 people in two clips
other guy: it hurts me and no one else
other guy: obvious, joe
jjt 1081: maybe it will...if you drive under the influence and crash into a bus
causing it to flip
jjt 1081: eh? c'mon you gotta concede to that...
jjt 1081: see what i mean?
jjt 1081: the world is a dangerous place
other guy: well..first off...high people are much better at driving than drunk
drivers
jjt 1081: ???? happens...you can't idiot-proof anything
jjt 1081: there will just be bigger idiots
jjt 1081: ha!
other guy: but personal usage in your own home is totally different than a
person owning an m16
jjt 1081: but not if it's in my home
other guy: but m16 arent just dangerous to idiots
other guy: m16s are dangerous because well knowing people use them to kill
people
jjt 1081: but you are going out on a ledge....to something that rarely happens
jjt 1081: 80 million gun owners in america
other guy: a concious person doesnt smoke and kill someone on purpose
jjt 1081: at least 2 times that many guns
jjt 1081: they might...they are humans with their own thought processes
other guy: they arent going to kill them with that joint though
other guy: it is not because of the joint...the joint isnt throwing them over
the edge
jjt 1081: you know...our forefathers were drinkers and smokers
other guy: ok whatever Joe
other guy: this goes on forever
jjt 1081: they founded this country with a hands off approach to government
jjt 1081: jefferson said he who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserves
neither
other guy: and look at it now
other guy: Joe...Im not saying to ban guns
other guy: you even agreed to what I said about restrictions
jjt 1081: yeah it needs to be anhilated and completely rebuilt
other guy: you are offended because Im telling you something you enjoy should
be restricted
jjt 1081: as would you if i told you pot is bad and you should be restriced
jjt 1081: say pot was like cigarettes...only you could only buy one pack at a
time
jjt 1081: police checked to make sure you had no more than 1 ounce at any time
in your home
other guy: but the difference being...pot only hurts me...and it only hurts
other people if Im stupid about it..guns can hurt people no matter what
other guy: that would be fine with me
jjt 1081: only if they are stupid
other guy: but they cant just stroll into your home
jjt 1081: oh no, that's part of the restriction
jjt 1081: just like atf can come knocking
jjt 1081: so would dea
jjt 1081: see..you wouldn't like it
jjt 1081: ok what if you could only have a nickelbag at any given time? to
prevent the kids from getting ahold of "stockpiles" of pot
jjt 1081: you would be pissed
jjt 1081: inconvienent
other guy: joe
other guy: you are comparing pot and weapons
other guy: guns and a plant
other guy: think about it man
jjt 1081: obviously we just have 2 completely different thought processes...no
big deal it's what makes thihngs interesting
jjt 1081: but see the government deamonizes the pot
other guy: and guns
jjt 1081: says it's bad...kills people, kills brain cells
other guy: but the difference is...guns kill people directly
jjt 1081: makes you do stupid things, etc
jjt 1081: only with the human doing to killing
other guy: so how about smoking pot and driving is still illegal
other guy: and owning guns and not being restricted is illegal?
jjt 1081: if the pot wasn't illegal i might try it...i
am a social drinker..it's relaxing and fun in moderation... prolly the same with pot
other guy: agree?
other guy: pot is much mroe relaxing than alcohol;-)
other guy: I havent done it in a while though
other guy: and I dont do it that often
jjt 1081: see, i think you should be able to do it in the privacy of your own
house
other guy: I have never seen a person hold up a bank with a pot leaf though
jjt 1081: or in a "pot" bar with some friends
jjt 1081: same laws as alcohol
other guy: yeah me too
jjt 1081: i conceded to the background checks...no sense giving known criminals
weapons .. they get them just fine on their own
jjt 1081: i just think after that it's too much intrusive government
jjt 1081: i'm all over in the political spectrum depeding on the issues
other guy: same here
other guy: Im more moderate than people probably think
jjt 1081: treehugger leftist
jjt 1081: "gun nut" right wing
other guy: Im not strict libertarian but thats the way I lean on most issues
jjt 1081: mostly libertarian/constitutionalist on the others
other guy: I dont really think the constitution is perfectr enough to be a
constitutionalist
jjt 1081: hey
other guy: hey
other guy: who's this?
jjt 1081: the other joe onusfbs
other guy: 45joe?
jjt 1081: yeah
other guy: oh ok
other guy: whats up?
jjt 1081: nada ... you know we kinda got off on the wrong foot...so i'm
suggesting we call a truce and proceed without any d^%$headedness (is that a
word?) from now on...because debating with you was fun about the guns
other guy: yeah I dont hold grudges or anything
other guy: so no big deal
jjt 1081: cool
jjt 1081: so i gotta ask....you say restrictions are necessary for owning the
evil looking guns...now, is that everyone or what? for instance me who has a
perfectly clean record and owns an entire arsenal basically
jjt 1081: just curious
other guy: well basically restrict guns that really shouldnt be in the hands
of the everyday gun owner
other guy: there should be lots of classes and restrictions and background
checks to own high powered or 'assault' (meaning automatic or whatever) weapons
other guy: not strictly banned I guess
other guy: I know they can be fun to shoot
other guy: I have shot an AK47 before
jjt 1081: aah cool so you do understand my side
jjt 1081: see im not against background checks or anything
other guy: yeah but they really shouldnt be easy to get
other guy: thats all
jjt 1081: felons should not own guns
jjt 1081: but i dont like being treated as a felon
other guy: well yeah but theres a difference in having to put up with security
at the airport and having to put up with security for weapons such as those
jjt 1081: ?
jjt 1081: i dont follow
other guy: just that gun owners should have to have extensive checks...and I
know those dont always work
other guy: some people snap and had no marks on their record before
other guy: but automatic or highpowered weapons should not be easy to get at
all
other guy: they shouldnt be sold on ebay or at pawn shops or gun shows
jjt 1081: all a gun show does is bring all the licensed gun shops to one central
location to peddle their wares. there are no laws governing private sales of
firearms in this state so private parties (i.e. the attendants) can sell to
other private parties if they want....there is no real gun show "loophole"
other guy: the private parties should not be able to sell those weapons
jjt 1081: now what you should also know is the ar-15 is about one of the weakest
rifle rounds out there....in fact, as far as military rounds go it is the
weakest...it's nothing more than a .22 going really fast
other guy: I of course dotn knwo all the types of restrictions we can put on
them but yeah
other guy: well...it goes really fast
jjt 1081: it just looks scary
jjt 1081: thats all
other guy: thats the main thing
other guy: the speed
other guy: why else would you need the speed?
other guy: novelty or killing
other guy: one of those two..and I undertsnad the novelty...but novelty should
not come above safety
jjt 1081: there are no restrictions on other novelties, this should be the same.
we don't live in the 3rd world countries where civilians are not allowed to own
military calibre weapons
other guy: novelties such as?
other guy: bazookas?
other guy: dude...we're talking about guns here
jjt 1081: how about 400 horsepower cobra mustangs
other guy: not novelty cars
jjt 1081: they kill just as much when a "stupid" person gets behind the wheel
other guy: cars were built for transportation
other guy: guns were built to kill
other guy: theres a huge difference in the purpose
other guy: and practicality
other guy: thats what I was trying to get across earlier
jjt 1081: where does it stop, though? ban butcher knives? what about baseball
bats?
other guy: they wertent built to kill Joe
other guy: werent
jjt 1081: they can and have been used to kill
other guy: other than novelty and hunting (which is a novelty in itself) a gun
serves no practical purpose
other guy: a knife does
jjt 1081: yeah but you are giving the inanimate object a character, personality
and purpose
other guy: your argument doesnt make sense Joe
jjt 1081: it takes the human being to act with it
other guy: ok...bazookas
other guy: meant to kill
jjt 1081: ok take a bazooka, load it and put it on a table and stare at it
other guy: but since its an inanimate object they should be legal
other guy: ??
jjt 1081: it will not do anything on its own
other guy: tanks?
other guy: nukes?
other guy: so?
other guy: I know the whole NRA bull???? line
other guy: guns dont kill people...people do
jjt 1081: but its true...no gun has mysteriously killed anyone
other guy: no?
other guy: no gun has ever gone off on accident?
other guy: no gun has been discharged completely lacking human interaction?
jjt 1081: people have killed while using guns, but guns themselves don't kill on
their own
other guy: Joe...listen to this point and think about it
other guy: guns serve NO purpose other than killing
jjt 1081: no...prove one has since it would take some force to pul the trigger
or drop the hammer
other guy: a gun drops off the table when something falls
other guy: goes off
other guy: shoots someone in the chest
other guy: Im sure its happened joe...dont deny it
other guy: and accidents happen with other practical things
other guy: the difference being PRACTICALITY
jjt 1081: perhaps an old western 6 shooter that is being stored
incorrectly...maybe an older handgun...no "assault" rifle will...they all have
integral firing pin blocks
jjt 1081: as do almost every handgun sold these days besides the "niche" market
guns
other guy: joe...my point is...ssafety needs to be imposed on weapons
other guy: weather it be restrictions on high powered or automatic weapons
other guy: or simply locked cases for other guns
jjt 1081: i have no problems with making safety rules
other guy: guns are not practical and the 2nd amendment is outdated and
pointless now
jjt 1081: but bans don't work
jjt 1081: look at prohibition
other guy: I know
jjt 1081: look at the "war" on drugs
other guy: I said restrictions
other guy: I havent said ban this entire time
jjt 1081: ok...prescription meds
jjt 1081: they are "restricted"
other guy: believe me Im against drug prohibition
jjt 1081: tell me i can't go get some zanex right now
jjt 1081: the criminals will always have their guns
jjt 1081: no matter what
other guy: buts its much harder than if it was over the counter now isnt it
joe?
jjt 1081: restricting the law abiding citizens does nothing for safety
other guy: restrictions restrict the usage
other guy: it doesnt stop it
other guy: Im not so blind that I think we can stop guin violence
other guy: but we can lessen it
jjt 1081: yeah...but look at how much money is wasted in this war on drugs and
tell me it is really working to the point it should continue
jjt 1081: or is being anywhere near successful
other guy: so you are agaisnt any gun restrictions?
other guy: the difference between guns and drugs mainly is drugs are
banned...and guns are restricted
jjt 1081: background checks are fine by me. other than that yes i am
jjt 1081: no, there are banned guns
other guy: and also...guns are manufactured and the high powered or automatic
ones are expensive
jjt 1081: there are 19 "assault" rifles banned by name
jjt 1081: ok this assault weapons ban that expires in sept.
other guy: yeah I got a bunch of emails abouit it
other guy: about
jjt 1081: ok check it out
jjt 1081: it bans high capacity magazines, flash suppressors, bayonet lugs and
collapsable stocks
jjt 1081: http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/rentry.gif
jjt 1081: look at the one on the bottom, which is available at any gun shop to
the public
jjt 1081: and the top one which is available only to law enforcement because it
is banned
other guy: Im nto saying gun legislation has been effective
other guy: and I cant propose the legislation either
other guy: because Im not that knowledgeable about guns themselves
other guy: but the higher end weapons need special restrictions that keep as
many as they can off of the street and only in gun ranges
jjt 1081: ok, ok look at this
jjt 1081: http://www.surplusrifle.com/sks/graphics/romanian/s/title.gif
jjt 1081: tell me how you would describe that rifle
other guy: and I know half of the banned items are easily made
other guy: the point is...it lessens there numbers out there
other guy: and you wouldnt deny that that helps a bit in crimes and the
severity of those crimes
jjt 1081: yes, i have to...a gun is a gun. there are no magical bullets...just
crazy ???????s who do not belong on the streets
jjt 1081: but please do me the favor of telling me how you would describe that
rifle
other guy: small magazine rifle with a bayonette
other guy: probably a slide action loading
jjt 1081: anything particularly evil about it?
other guy: bayonette isnt cool but you can make a makeshift one easily
other guy: its just a knife
jjt 1081: exactly
other guy: Im nto talking about bayonettes though
jjt 1081: but other than that you would say it's an average run of the mill
rifle
jjt 1081: nothing special
jjt 1081: yes/no?
other guy: Im talking about the guns that shoot 30 bullets in a second and can
take down a crowd in a couple clips
other guy: mostly yes...it looks to be high calibre
jjt 1081: it's a russian sks
other guy: caliber
other guy: I cant type
jjt 1081: turn of the century army battle rifle
jjt 1081: eh, i say calibre too
jjt 1081: its cool
jjt 1081: http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/images/0501.jpg
jjt 1081: ok look at that one
jjt 1081: and you know what it is
other guy: yeah...and the 30 shot magazine and fire rate make for a deadly
weapon
jjt 1081: essentially the same action
jjt 1081: the ak was designed off the sks
other guy: but its totally different because of the fire rate
jjt 1081: kalashnikov only copied the design and compacted the gun and added a
pistol grip
other guy: thats what makes it deadly
jjt 1081: an sks will fire as fast as you pull the trigger
jjt 1081: so will an ak
other guy: fire rate and clip size I guess
jjt 1081: so will my antiquated m1 garand
jjt 1081: an sks can hold a 30 round ak magazine...just need a mag adapter
jjt 1081: which is little more than a piece of metal to hold it in place
other guy: yeah I understand Joe
other guy: Im just saying that those types of weapons need to be restricted
other guy: I know legislation now is pretty stupid
other guy: but it needs to be reformed
jjt 1081: but we are guaranteed the freedom to own what we want...the
constitution says so
jjt 1081: we are not the uk, canadia or australia
other guy: then I want a damn nuke!
other guy: Im just saying joe...where does it stop?
jjt 1081: a nuke is not a military small arm
other guy: exactly
other guy: weapons ARE restricted
jjt 1081: it is a bomb which is not protected by any law and is strictly
prohibited
other guy: and probably at the wrong points
other guy: and why Joe?
other guy: why is it prohibited and not a gun that shoots 30 rounds a second?
jjt 1081: well, you are a little off it takes an m-16 3.2 seconds to empty a 30
rounder .. but it shouldn't be BANNED because the constitution says my right to
bear arms shall not be infringed
other guy: well thats not the fastest weapon out there
other guy: but yeah
jjt 1081: not many faster
other guy: that wasnt my point
jjt 1081: itr is one of the fastest
other guy: gatling guns and all
other guy: ok not the argument at hand
jjt 1081: used to be faster but the mlitary went from ball to stick powder
because the guns jammed
jjt 1081: see, you say restriction but you aren't telling me how you want to
restrict. you say not ban but approve of me not being able to own a real m16?
yes?
jjt 1081: the "normal" gun owner is not a psycho killer
other guy: I know
other guy: but letting anyone own a gun puts them into the hands of those
psycho killers
other guy: Im for restrictions...and honestly...I dont know what exactly they
would be
jjt 1081: do research on states with concealed carry licenses...find the number
of licenses revoked due to felony convictions of permit holders (not necessarily
violent just felony)
jjt 1081: it is extreamly insignificant
jjt 1081: ok what about ccl holders?
jjt 1081: my finger prints are in the fbi computers
jjt 1081: i went through extensive background checks on both the state and
federal levels
other guy: there may be enough restrictions...there may not
other guy: I cant say exactly
jjt 1081: and i was approved
other guy: but I think that restrictions for the guns Im talking about should
be very strict
jjt 1081: i had to take the safety class, etc
other guy: that really is all I have on the subject
other guy: except for training like you just mentioned
jjt 1081: ok so i got a ccl which means i was thoroughly checked, have taken the
safety class, have committed no crimes....should i then be able to own an m16
just for the recreational usage i would like?
other guy: probably more courses and more restrictions...such as a check on
the weapon every year or so
other guy: to make sure you havent sold it
other guy: that sort of thing
other guy: and no buying in bulk of course
jjt 1081: eh...i can almost agree to that
jjt 1081: but it's too big brother
other guy: DUDE
jjt 1081: which i know you are against
other guy: its guns
other guy: not f#$@ing cars or anything
other guy: Im against the whole government intervention in my private life
jjt 1081: then why should they intervene in mine?
other guy: but intervention in the safety of its citizens in domestic matters
is important
jjt 1081: you smoke a joint because you want to...it's recreational
other guy: because owning an m16 is not private
other guy: thats a very dangerous weapon
jjt 1081: i load up some mags, head to the range and blast paper...it's
recreational
other guy: a joint isnt going to kill 40 people in two clips
other guy: it hurts me and no one else
other guy: obvious, joe
jjt 1081: maybe it will...if you drive under the influence and crash into a bus
causing it to flip
jjt 1081: eh? c'mon you gotta concede to that...
jjt 1081: see what i mean?
jjt 1081: the world is a dangerous place
other guy: well..first off...high people are much better at driving than drunk
drivers
jjt 1081: ???? happens...you can't idiot-proof anything
jjt 1081: there will just be bigger idiots
jjt 1081: ha!
other guy: but personal usage in your own home is totally different than a
person owning an m16
jjt 1081: but not if it's in my home
other guy: but m16 arent just dangerous to idiots
other guy: m16s are dangerous because well knowing people use them to kill
people
jjt 1081: but you are going out on a ledge....to something that rarely happens
jjt 1081: 80 million gun owners in america
other guy: a concious person doesnt smoke and kill someone on purpose
jjt 1081: at least 2 times that many guns
jjt 1081: they might...they are humans with their own thought processes
other guy: they arent going to kill them with that joint though
other guy: it is not because of the joint...the joint isnt throwing them over
the edge
jjt 1081: you know...our forefathers were drinkers and smokers
other guy: ok whatever Joe
other guy: this goes on forever
jjt 1081: they founded this country with a hands off approach to government
jjt 1081: jefferson said he who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserves
neither
other guy: and look at it now
other guy: Joe...Im not saying to ban guns
other guy: you even agreed to what I said about restrictions
jjt 1081: yeah it needs to be anhilated and completely rebuilt
other guy: you are offended because Im telling you something you enjoy should
be restricted
jjt 1081: as would you if i told you pot is bad and you should be restriced
jjt 1081: say pot was like cigarettes...only you could only buy one pack at a
time
jjt 1081: police checked to make sure you had no more than 1 ounce at any time
in your home
other guy: but the difference being...pot only hurts me...and it only hurts
other people if Im stupid about it..guns can hurt people no matter what
other guy: that would be fine with me
jjt 1081: only if they are stupid
other guy: but they cant just stroll into your home
jjt 1081: oh no, that's part of the restriction
jjt 1081: just like atf can come knocking
jjt 1081: so would dea
jjt 1081: see..you wouldn't like it
jjt 1081: ok what if you could only have a nickelbag at any given time? to
prevent the kids from getting ahold of "stockpiles" of pot
jjt 1081: you would be pissed
jjt 1081: inconvienent
other guy: joe
other guy: you are comparing pot and weapons
other guy: guns and a plant
other guy: think about it man
jjt 1081: obviously we just have 2 completely different thought processes...no
big deal it's what makes thihngs interesting
jjt 1081: but see the government deamonizes the pot
other guy: and guns
jjt 1081: says it's bad...kills people, kills brain cells
other guy: but the difference is...guns kill people directly
jjt 1081: makes you do stupid things, etc
jjt 1081: only with the human doing to killing
other guy: so how about smoking pot and driving is still illegal
other guy: and owning guns and not being restricted is illegal?
jjt 1081: if the pot wasn't illegal i might try it...i
am a social drinker..it's relaxing and fun in moderation... prolly the same with pot
other guy: agree?
other guy: pot is much mroe relaxing than alcohol;-)
other guy: I havent done it in a while though
other guy: and I dont do it that often
jjt 1081: see, i think you should be able to do it in the privacy of your own
house
other guy: I have never seen a person hold up a bank with a pot leaf though
jjt 1081: or in a "pot" bar with some friends
jjt 1081: same laws as alcohol
other guy: yeah me too
jjt 1081: i conceded to the background checks...no sense giving known criminals
weapons .. they get them just fine on their own
jjt 1081: i just think after that it's too much intrusive government
jjt 1081: i'm all over in the political spectrum depeding on the issues
other guy: same here
other guy: Im more moderate than people probably think
jjt 1081: treehugger leftist
jjt 1081: "gun nut" right wing
other guy: Im not strict libertarian but thats the way I lean on most issues
jjt 1081: mostly libertarian/constitutionalist on the others
other guy: I dont really think the constitution is perfectr enough to be a
constitutionalist
:banghead: 
