I hate sharpening!!!

[tcsnake]

I love my knives, but like all blades they get dull and need resharpening. so I figured what the heck, and I bought some Japanese water stones (1000 grit, and a 6000 grit)

I figured " 45 degree angle, slow even strokes, how hard could it be?" WRONG! I have been at this for two days now and all my knives are actually worse than before I attempted to sharpen them, do I need a degree in sharpening here or what!?

at this point i'm convinced I have either destroyed some of my most expensive blades or i'm just a complete moron and have no skill (which I really don't have any skill in sharpening) im trying to sharpen a cold steel folder tanto, a SOG jungle primitive and a buck special.

my question is should I just send them off to the pros for sharpening or just keep at it and try and sharpen them myself? and just who are the pros at sharpening anyways? and how did they get so good? can you recomend any online services? -thanks

 

[android]

45 degrees is WAY too much for most knives. 20 or 25 is the usual. You will probably need to give them to a pro to undo what you have done. After that get a Lansky. They are good for people that only ocassionally sharpen stuff as they hold the stone at a precise angle to the blade and they are reasonably priced. The stones are fine, ignore the overpriced diamond stuff.

 

[chevyforlife21]

i think its real easy i been showed once how to do it with a 30 year old stone, and about what angle, and it works great.

 

[janobles14]

its just a practice thing. there are tons of how-tos out there. like mentioned before, lansky's, smith's, or other systems are great and help a ton. you should lessen your angle by a good bit. general rule is 15-20 deg. for fine work knives, 20-25 for general work, and 25-30 for rougher work. the less the angle the more razor like the edge but the more quickly it rolls and becomes dull.

i learned by doing. grab on old, smaller kitchen knife or less expensive pocket knife and practice away. also make sure that your japanese water stones are flat! if not then youll get inconsistent angles on the same blade.

 

[Rain Dog]

I use a Spyderco sharpmaker. It's a crock stick setup. Works. I have a Lansky system and some Arkansas stones, but it's the sharpmaker I use. Multiple options, can sharpen just about anything you can think of, and lots of things you can't. Also, you can get diamond rods for rebeveling, and ultra-fines for some seriously fine edges.

And don't down the diamond stuff too much, it's expensive, but it can save hours of your time.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Most people I know who have even the most fleeting appreciation for sharp stuff have been where you are now.

The first step toward learning real sharpening is admitting you have a problem, lol.

Take your frustration by the horns and let it lead you to something better.

See the sharpening FAQ at the top of this section for detailed instructions. If you've already invested in Japanese stones then you might as well learn to use them. And, you can.

 

[hso]

Be glad you've used such fine stones in spite of using the wrong angle because you've probably inadvertently saved yourself from wrecking every knife you've tried this with.

Knives don't use 45% bevel angles. If you'd have used diamond you'd be facing taking your knives to a professional sharpener to reset the bevels.

Read the sticky on sharpening before starting back at it. Get some additional stones with that are coarser. Perhaps, one of the "V" type ceramic stick systems to start out.

Regardless, put the water stones away and try using some simpler equipment on some knives you don't care about and you'll learn quickly enough whether you can free hand sharpen or you need a system to hold the bevel for you.

 

[w_houle]

I can't sharpen a knife either. I use 30 deg overall angle but can't seem to produce an edge that can cut a sheet of paper 1" away from my hand.

 

[chugokujin]

Sorry to hear about your frustrations. As already mentioned, those who have learned how to sharpen have gone thru the same thing that you are going through. The first blade I tried to sharpen was a 15" filipino bolo ( i like big blades) and by the time i was done there was a lotta steel removed and wasn't sharp. It has to do with learning the correct angles and the thickness and grind of the blade will tell you how much. I used guides and other gimmicks, but, now I always sharpen freehand from folders to kitchen knives. The learning curve is worth it. I don't really go by exact degrees, but for your knives mentioned, 45 deg is wayy to much and 20 deg as others have mentioned will work for your hollow ground knives.

The waterstones you have are too fine for a "dull" knife. Also, if they are Natural waterstones, they aren't very good for modern alloy steels. More suited for carbon steel knives. The synthetic ones are a bit better since they are Aluminum oxide or silicon carbide. The good thing is that the softness of the stones also have saved you from removing too much steel. DMTs are great but be careful with removing too much steel. Go slowly. Personally I'd recommend a good Norton Combo India oilstone or crystolon. They are inexpesive and work well. Grit sizes I believe are 220 (coarse) and 600 (fine) then you can move onto the 1000 grit if its a synthetic stone. Use a Sharpie marker to outline the edge so you can see where you are sharpening. This is something a lot of beginners also do.

PM me if you need more advice

 

[22-rimfire]

The DMT sales guy told me this and it is not a bad way to go when you freehand your sharpening as I do. I use the DMT diamond stones at a couple of different grits now with the hard steels of today. But I go slow and pay attention.

The approach is to lay stone flat; sharpening side up. Put knife on stone at 90 degrees or the blade at a right angle to the stone. Most everyone can eyeball 90 degrees. Then halve that angle; you're at 45 degrees. Halve that angle again (22.5 degrees) and you are about where you want to be more most things. I usually reduce the angle just a bit at the 22.5 degree point or to about 20 degrees to the stone. You should not be putting any scratches on the side of the blade when you sharpen it otherwise your angle is too small (acute). The hard part is holding that angle freehand and being consistant with the amount of pressure you apply with your strokes.

Takes some time, but worth while thing to learn how to do. Yes I have a couple of the sharpening systems, but prefer the flat bench stone. Sometimes a protractor is handy to convince yourself that you are about at the angle you think you are.

Ceramic rods (crock stick) are handy for light sharpening or touch up. They are very easy to use and very intuitive.

 

[Hiaboo]

Knowing how to freehand is an awesome skill --

However as it stands right now, my terrible, terrible dark secret is --

My belt sander and paper wheels.

SHH!

100/80 grit to sand those truly blown edges (chipped, nicked, re-profile the tips, etc) out to something that resembles an edge then the wheels to get 'em razor sharp.. All in a matter of 3 minutes. Touchups, just fire up the paper wheel for a second, and ur all set.

Example:

http://users.ameritech.net/knives/paper.htm

Best.. Thing.. Ever..
I kid you not.

 

[TimboKhan]

Despite feeling .45% less manly, I just never picked up the skill of hand sharpening. I mean, I know how to do it, but I just kind of suck at it. I tried a lansky system, and I can see the merits, but I personally was never able to get great results. I now have a Spyderco Sharpmaker and am pretty satisfied. It's not perfect, but I am able to get decent results.

 

[chugokujin]

Hiaboo,

Ya suck man. I'd love to have the space in my lil pad for a belt sander or baldor . Paper wheels are the biscuit. Lucky on you dude. Oh well, lucky I have plenty of DMTs and waterstones to get me by.

 

[Aka Zero]

Well, What I found worked for me, even though it goes against all common teaching.

I don't use stones. Or easy to use sticks. Or complex sets.

I use a 3 pack of diamond hones. The sharpening parts it about 3/4" wide around 1 3/4" long. Paid $10 for all three. And I have belt sanded a saw blade into a knife, with 180 grit, and got it to shave after using just these.

I do tape 2000 grit sandpaper over the course hone, since it's never needed. But the ultra fine 1200, and fine 800 grits are all I need to get anything sharp. Really sharp. I can cut bread with plain edge any day, with any knife I own..... Making things cut Better is my hobby.

And when you get to the point you can sharpen, buy a piece of leather for a strop. It takes things to another level.

 

[bikerdoc]

Just me,

A lansky if I have to reprofile the geometry ( usually 17 to 22 degrees).

Then wet/dry emory paper from 340 to 2k grit, mounted on paint sticks. Finish with chromium oxide loaded strop, then plain strop. Polish with Mothers mag polish.

In the field carry a the E Z lap diamond stones in 600 amd 1200 for touch up.

After good steel and a good heat treat, geometry is everything.

Keep at it!!

 

[wheelgunslinger]

See there, tcsnake?
There's more than one way to skin a cat. But you, most assuredly, can learn to do it.

 

[Zeke/PA]

Somehow I learned to sharpen stuff at a very early age starting with an axe ,my own personal knife and the kitchen cutlery.
If you REALLY want to learn, concentrate on the "bench stone" method whereby a bench mounted stone and your tecnique rule.
Learn to maintain a constant angle regarding knife/ stone and practice, practice ,practice, practice.
It is REALLY not that difficult.
I am a great fan of the Spyderco system BUT once mastered, the stones REALLY rule.
Stones( Medium India, Hard Arkansas).

 

[zignal_zero]

i suck at sharpening. it's a battle i have fought, for years, and have finally surrendered. i use a Lansky, they're awesome, but ONLY FOR smaller knives. when using a Lansky on a blade over five inches, they angle gets funny when you get to the tip.

hopefully, i will be getting a Syperco Sharpmaker, for Xmas, to use on my larger knives.

 

[android]

Oh, and another thing!! When we are saying 20 degrees, that really means 10 degrees per side for a total edge angle of 20 degrees. So if you are going to do it manually, you hold the knife at about a 10 degree angle to the stone.

 

[android]

i use a Lansky, they're awesome, but ONLY FOR smaller knives. when using a Lansky on a blade over five inches, they angle gets funny when you get to the tip.

Scoot the holder along and do a bit at a time. Just blend the overlaps carefully. That's how I do my 9" chef's knife.

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Spyderco Sharpmaker---buy the additional ultra-fine sticks and a leather strop----all your knives will be razor sharp.

 

[JeffLrrp]

I am both good and bad at sharpening.

My Victorinox knives and my Bucks take a minute or two tops to get into "hair-popping" territory, while some of my AUS-8 blades take a little while longer. I've been off and on trying to sharpen a Endura 4 (with VG10) and a normal run of the mill Kabar with 1095, and have been sucessful with neither. If Im holding them at the straight (ie correct angle) on the sharpmaker, how long do you think it'll take me to sharpen them up. Call me lazy, but my lower-grade steel knives are a breeze to get sharp. After a hundred pulls on the coarse and fine hones, I've got nothing really to show for it (with the VG10 and 1095 blades). How long is this going to take??

Suggestions appreciated, and sorry for the bit of hijacked thread. I need help !!

 

[StrawHat]

I sharpen knives for a living and much of the advice you have been given is fairly sound. It is hard to maintain an angle freehand but with practice it can be done. There are guides to help you and tools like the Lansky but eventually try to learn to sharpen freehand.

As for angles, just keep it consistant along the blade and from side to side. Consistancy is the key. No matter what type of stone you use.

Waterstones are not what I would recommend you learn on but since that is what you have, keep going. Make sure you surface them flat periodically so you can hold the angle. I use a variety of stones depending on the job at hand. In my vehicle I keep natural bench stones, Arkansas stones, my wheel, carborundum stones, leather strops, an EZE Sharp system, diamond steels and smooth steels.

Online services? Never heard of them. Where are you located? There are sharpeners all over the country who would be glad to help you.

 

[HAMMERDROP]

I learned after much trial and error ...

I could turn a Buck or Schrade into a butter knife very easily but can create a hairpopping edge on a Gerber or a SOG for that matter or even a Cold Steel. I can turn my Microtechs edge into something I fear. I think the quality of the metal used in the blade is the first real key to a blade holding a good edge. Under a microscope a well sharpened blade looks like a saw blade. The edge being laid down must be paid attention to, you can usually see it after just a couple of strokes before it gets outta hand and dull.
Just my own experience.

Michael

 

[7X57chilmau]

Steel has some bearing on how easy a knife is to sharpen.... Some steels (particularly stainless varieties) are very.... Smudgy? Sticky? and can be very slow to sharpen.... Some steels are a bit soft and wire edge easily (again low end stainlesses or any under-hard steel), some are so hard or carbide-y that they take eons to sharpen.... But with good technique, they'll all get sharp.

I've gotten hair-popping edges on anything from butter-soft Chinese folders to decent knives from buck, case, shrade, victorinox, kershaw... You name'em....

The biggest problem I find (once a decent angle's been established and carried out to the edge) is getting rid of a persistant wire edge on softer knives... On the final stone, I'll do several strokes each side pulling away from the edge (to set up as large a wire burr as possible), and then a very light forward stroke on each side (as if taking thin slices off the stone) until the burr is cut off. Then finish as you will (steel, strop, whatever) and the results are quite good...

I'm really liking my D2 stuff for this reason: It NEVER wire edges... Cannot make it burr!

J