I just bought my first gun tonight

[Bud Tugly]

I totally agree with SM. Keeping them out of your house in the first place is FAR safer and more effective than having to resort to shooting them once they've gotten in. Keeping yourself from becoming a victim should always be the first line of self-defense. Relying solely on a weapon to protect you is a dangerous philosophy that could get you killed or in jail.

 

[Bishop]

sorry i dropped off

hey everyone, i was out of town for a few days and i didn't have net access. I appreciate everyones advice and concern. I have gone ahead and put the gun away(i measured it, and it was within the legal limit). I didn't return it because the price was so low, it was practically a gift, but I have put it away and concentrated instead on making the house totally secure. I have installed burglar bars, installed a few new bolts/chains on the front and porch doors, secured the back doors and bedroom doors with doorstops as was suggested, and have installed some of the window alarms from home depot. I have drilled my windows and put nails to keep them from being forced open. I also keep the porch and living room lights on at night, and have been calling my representatives and the police to try to put pressure out there to get the crackhouse in my neighborhood condemned. Thanks SM, for the great home security ideas.

I'm leaving town for the month of July with my wife, and when we return I'll go and purchase a shotgun more suitable for home defense and comfortable for my wife, probably a 20 ga. that we can both train with. I can always try out the short 12 ga. once i have more experience shooting a better balanced gun.

So does anyone have a recommendation for a good home defense shotgun?

 

[RNB65]

So does anyone have a recommendation for a good home defense shotgun?

Yes. This one:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/model_870_express_synthetic_7-round.asp

 

[mnrivrat]

There will be a ton of advise - mine is to at least look at a Youth model pump gun in 20ga. Remington 870 or Mossberg 500

Take the wife along when making your choice because if she needs to use it , she should have a say regarding what fits her .

I am a big fellow myself, and I find the youth 20ga. to be perfect for HD. with their 21 inch barrels and shorter stocks they have less weight, less recoil, and can be brought into action quickly.

Now will come the flood of get a 12ga. with a bunch of wiz-bangs on it, and certainly they are worth looking at as well. Your choice, but look and handle a bunch before you buy.

 

[marksman13]

Any youth model, pump action shotgun from Winchester, Remington, or Mossberg should do you just fine. As others have suggested, be sure to take your wife with you and make sure she is as comfartable with the gun as you are. 20 gauge may be your best bet in this case since you will both be using the gun and she is a small framed person. If price is an issue, take a look at the Mossberg Maverick. Well built, reliable and affordable gun that can be found fairly easily in a youth configuration. Buy a few different boxes of buckshot and see which patterns the best from the gun you choose. I would probably suggest buck shot based on the fact that living in an apt, you will not likely be shooting more than a few yards and slugs are more likely to overpenetrate. Forget any notion you have of shooting birdshot at an intruder. Save the birdshot for the birds and skeet!!!

 

[Fred Fuller]

Bishop,

My advice (FWIW- free) is to stick with a 12 ga. and not shift to a 20 ga., UNLESS you go to a gas operated semiautomatic in the 20 ga. I say this because a primary issue with defensive shotguns is recoil. Recoil is a function of several things, but gun weight is one of the main ones- 12 gauge guns as a rule weigh more than 20 gauge guns. The operating system makes a difference too in some cases. A gas operated shotgun has the same recoil as a pumpgun (you can't cheat physics) but the gas operating system spreads that recoil over a slightly longer time frame, making it feel as if it were less.

So- for a pumpgun, get a 12 gauge. If you want a 20 gauge, get a gas gun. My recommendation for a gas gun is a Remington 1100 or 11-87 with a smoothbore 'slug' barrel. Nothing macho in that suggestion, just experience- mine and my wife's.

The reason for getting a 12 gauge is that there is low recoil ammunition in wide distribution for the 12. But there is little to none to be found for the 20 ga. IMHO the 20 ga. pump guns are a snare and delusion for the recoil sensitive, because the only (IMHO) effective defensive loads for them- slugs and buckshot- are full house magnum loads, and kick worse in the lighter 20 ga. guns than low recoil 12 ga. loads in a heavier 12 ga. gun.

My wife (60, 5'4" tall, 135 lbs) was an active 3-gun shooter in the past. When Remington came out with its spiffy little Express Youth gun in 20 gauge, she thought it would be just the ticket for a 3-gun shotgun. She was dismayed to find that it kicked much worse with buckshot and slug loads than her Mossberg 12 gauge with low recoil 12 ga. loads.

She has absolutely no trouble shooting any of the 12 gauge 'house guns' here that are the same basic size as the little Remington youth gun. Our house guns (all 870s) have 18-20" barrels with rifle sights, full length field type forearms rather than the shorter law enforcement forearms, and 12.5" length of pull stocks. The longer forearms help in that the shooter does not have to over-extend the support arm to operate the pump, and the short stock is a necessity for smaller shooters. I am 6'3" tall and wear a 37" sleeve and have no trouble shooting the short stocks, either- just keep your thumb on the knuckle of your trigger finger so you don't bust your nose in recoil. Thse guns also have premium recoil pads- KickEez in our case, but LimbSavers, Remington R3s, Pachmayer Decelerators etc. work well too.

They have no magazine extensions, heat shields or other devices that add weight out in front of the support hand. Weight on the muzzle end is felt in a disproportionate degree, keep it to a minimum in a defensive shotgun to be used by smaller or physically weaker shooters.

Our guns do have rail-mounted white lights (Streamlight rails, Streamlight M3s or LEDWave Z-5s, which weigh very little) and 4-round SideSaddles. They are loaded with 3 rounds of Hornady TAP 00 buckshot (red hull, 8-pellet full velocity) in the magazine and Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddle.

Granted what works for my wife might not work for yours. My wife took up shooting in graduate school as a form of stress relief, and had her basic training at the hands of some of the best non-paid trainers I know of. Since then she has attended training from some of the best known professionals in the county as well. She is a confident and practiced shooter and I do not have to worry about her ability or willingness to use a firearm in her own defense if necessary.

It takes a while to get to that level of confidence and ability however, and it takes learning and practice. Learning to shoot is a task and a responsibility on the level of learning to drive- no one gets handed a set of keys and sent off to a NASCAR race after all. You can't rush it. But you CAN do it.

Take a look at http://www.corneredcat.com/ . It's a web page from a THR member and your wife and you might find it helpful. I sure do...

Good luck to both of you in pursuing your ability to defend yourselves, it is a skill set of growing necessity in these times. You have done well in further securing your dwelling, but do not back off on your determination to learn what you need to know to go the full measure if necessary.

Don't be a stranger...

lpl/nc

 

[mnrivrat]

The formula for recoil energy is simply E=1/2 MV Squared, with "M" being mass of the gun and "V" being the recoil velocity. In other words, you simply square the velocity of recoil, which is easily calculated when we know the weight of the bullet and powder charge and its velocity when exiting from the muzzle. Multiply by the weight of the gun and divide by twice the acceleration of gravity, and you get the recoil energy in foot pounds.

Often times I hear opinions on recoil so I thought I would post the formula above for those who would like to themselves calculate the differences when comparing one firearm, or loading to another.

No doubt that the lighter the gun, the more recoil one will get if the load is the same. ( V ) . In other words, yes - a heavier 12ga. gun with reduced power loads can in fact have less recoil energy than a lighter 20ga. with a standard buckshot or slug loading.

A few things to keep in mind in my opinion are :

Since the 20ga. delivers a smaller payload the velocity of that load can be maintained without going to a reduced power loading as one might do in a 12ga. gun in order to equalize the V in this formula. Is the smaller payload a problem ? I think many would have to agree that a 2 & 3/4" number 3 buckshot loading from a 20ga. from across the room will be a very adequate fight stopper.

For particularly a new or untrained shooter, and one who will unlikely take the time to become anywhere close to professional, the ease of handling a 20 ga. will improve their ability to deal with a HD situation.(IMO) Practice then with light loads to become familiar with the firearm, and I gaurantee that any extra recoil from a buckshot load when needed for SD with not be a factor, and neither should shooting a few for practice .

I also like the idea of a gas operated gun for recoil reduction. The cost will be 2 to 3 times higher for the gas gun but if that is not a problem I would certainly look into models available.