I know that we eschew violence BUT,

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mljdeckard

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There are cases where common sense burns through the legal fog. Does anyone think this legal decision is anything other than 100% perfect?

http://www.standard.net/live/news/128158

Brothers get whoopin' then jail for slurs
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Friday, March 14, 2008
By TIM GURRISTER
Standard-Examiner staff
[email protected]

OGDEN -- The last of three drunken men who hurled racial slurs at a black man, then had their collective clocks cleaned by him, was sentenced to jail this week on riot charges.

The brawl left Ernest Martinez, 23, briefly unconscious after he initially got in the face of Lynzell Jackson, who was visiting from out of town, according to police reports.

Martinez and his brothers Emilio, 21, and Eric, 22, all of Ogden, were each charged with riot and intoxication for the Nov. 30 incident outside the downtown Salomon Center.

The fight was decided so quickly that Eric Martinez wasn't able to get his brass knuckles out of his pants pocket, according to reports.

Jackson was not charged.

"We determined his acts were justified by the behavior of the other three," said Deputy Weber County Attorney Sandra Corp, prosecutor in the case.

"He got the better of them because he was the only one who wasn't intoxicated," said Corp, noting Jackson was not any kind of martial-arts expert or trained fighter, and not especially physically imposing.

"He is a nice gentleman and said he wouldn't have made a big deal out of the situation but for the fact his nephew and his girlfriend were with him," she said.

"He asked them to stop. In return, they surrounded him ... Mr. Jackson put his hands on Ernesto's arms to keep him from swinging and they had a discussion about respect."

But the N-word continued to fly and the fight was on, she said, "And it was three on one."

Corp said the Martinez brothers told police they were actually calling each other the well-known racial slur for African-Americans and that Jackson misunderstood.

"That was a new one on me," she said. "I've not heard that claim before."

Injuries were relatively minor, and no one required hospitalization. Jackson's hand suffered bruising.

On Wednesday, 2nd District Judge W. Brent West gave Eric Martinez 180 days in jail and suspended Emilio Martinez's one-year jail sentence, pending payment of $966 in fines and fees.

In January, West sentenced Ernest Martinez to 90 days in jail. His arrest for instigating the fight violated the terms of his parole on a 2005 burglary charge, returning him to the Utah State Prison.

The jail time will be served concurrently with the remainder of his prison term of up to five years on the burglary charge.
 
Yes, I should say, justice served. These punks might even get the "American History X" Treatment while they are in there. If I were them, I would politely ask the warden for a tube of Vaseline. It might hurt a little less.

And that guy Ernest was carrying brass knuckes in his pocket? Clearly he was looking for trouble, his intent was to start a fight or something like that.
 
Seems sound, any prosecuter would have a hard time convincing a jury that a single man instigated a fight with three other men, one of whom was out on parole. Even a hard headed prosecuter would not touch the guy.
 
The brawl left Ernest Martinez, 23, briefly unconscious after he initially got in the face of Lynzell Jackson

If I'm outnumbered 3 to 1 and they are carrying on with a ration of hate speech right in my face I might not wait for them to attack either. It doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to think that Mr. Jackson may very well have been in fear for his life.

I don't know if Mr. Jackson cleaned their clocks in preemptive self-defense or just to teach them a lesson but legally if I were on the jury, had Mr. Jackson been charged, I could easily understand not waiting until he had 3 guys attacking him to respond.
 
And that guy Ernest was carrying brass knuckes in his pocket? Clearly he was looking for trouble, his intent was to start a fight or something like that.
While I in no way stand up for the three guys, I don't think that's a fair assessment of Ernest either. Brass knuckles are illegal as far as I know, but what's not to say he wasn't carrying them for protection. (though I admit him picking the fight with those in the pocket certainly doesn't help the case)

Saying he was looking for trouble is no different than an Anti seeing you carrying a gun and announcing that you too are looking for trouble. Are you? No I wouldn't think you were.

What if you were in a fight while carrying and prosecuted for some obscure reason, and the media reported you were armed? Regardless of whether or not you have a permit do you think your image will look innocent, or do you think it will make you look like you were "clearly looking for trouble"?

Obviously the three guys were wrong and prosecuted correctly. But don't make assumptions, Anti's do that to us, don't be hypocrytical.
 
Right, and I agree. But, not everyone who safely carries a gun for protection does so legally either. Doesn't mean they are out to look for trouble simply because that is their means of protection.
 
Corp said the Martinez brothers told police they were actually calling each other the well-known racial slur for African-Americans and that Jackson misunderstood.

Oh, Bull****!

Countdown to thread lock. Not gun related.
 
While I am a firm believer in the sticks and stones rule, when 3 men sorround 1 and start in, then this is the BEST and most positive of out comes. Lesson taught and no permanent damage to anyone! Nice outcome!
 
legality and common sense were the same here, really. One guy is outnumbered by three drunks who were essentially about to commit a hate crime. He gets surrounded by them, intimidated, and one of them was already on parole for a potentially violent crime and had a weapon...

glad to hear they all got what they deserved both ways. Congrats to jackson.
 
Kudos to Mr. Jackson. Carrying a gun for protection and carrying brass knuckles are not the same at all. A gun has legitimate use for self defence. Brass knuckles are an instrument of assault. I know the Bradys say the same about handguns, but one would have to totally eschew common sense not to see the difference. These racist morons are probably on a par with the Possum and his White Trash buddies who dragged Mr. Bird to death behind a pickup truck. Mr. Jackson is OK, and the Cretin Brigade lost. Looks good on 'em. Again, good show Mr. Jackson.
 
A gun has legitimate use for self defence. Brass knuckles are an instrument of assault. I know the Bradys say the same about handguns, but one would have to totally eschew common sense not to see the difference.

It's the user's intent. Not the tool. That is common sense. And, I think you mean Battery, not Assault. Likewise, a firearm is an instrument of aggravated battery, as well.

These racist morons are probably on a par with the Possum and his White Trash buddies who dragged Mr. Bird to death behind a pickup truck.

The term "white trash" is just a white equivalent to the n-word for blacks, the s-word for hispanics, the k or h-words for jews, etc. Racism is wrong by definition. Choosing against whom you will blindly discriminate or wantonly label due to skin color is racism.

Actions are what make people bad. Labels are only there to blind you from your own ignorance. But, it's socially acceptable to toss around the term "white trash" just like it was acceptable to use the n-word 40 years ago. So, it must be okay.
 
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