I love my new Ruger P345 1911.

Status
Not open for further replies.
So, what does my 1911 have to be other than the action to make it a "real" 1911 in your opinions.

BTW, I have orderd some 1911 grips that I will just glue onto the pistol in order to make it look more like an 1911, then I can finally get some respect at the range.
 
Well... tilt barrel design. Yeah...

But hardly 1911 action regardless. Even then, the Sig, HK, Glocks etc all use tilt barrel design. But its FAR from the 1911 type action. VERY far.

Oh and... safety up to fire? Even farther.

As long as you are happy with your pistol. Thats all that matters. But saying its anything near a 1911 is as far as possible. Thats like saying since its an autoloader, magazine with a chamber its a 1911.

Cool. I'm gonna call my pinto a Ferrari since it uses a engine, transmission and wheels. Hey its all the same type of design. :D
 
So, what does my 1911 have to be other than the action to make it a "real" 1911 in your opinions.
black majik, thank you so much for taking the time to answer my question. I really appreciate your input. Everyting is so clear to me now. I certainly know where I went wrong. :rolleyes:
 
My apologies.

As to the question.

3 safeties: Grip safety, thumb safety, and Trigger safety (trigger must be pulled to be fired. It wont fire unless the grip safety is depressed).

The thumb safety: Down to fire, up for safe.

Barrel Lug.

The crisp single action trigger. Usually I haven't found any other firearm to have the same trigger feel as the 1911. Its pretty unique.

Single stack. Single Action. In my opinion, even the Para Ordnance LDA's dont qualify as a 1911. Neither does the double stacks. Furthermore, no polymer frames ala KZ45s and the Kimber polymers.

I can get knitpicky, the internal extractor vs external etc.. but it is getting late. Thats the jist' of it. I read you had experience with a Colt 1911 that you weren't really favorable of. All good, we all have our opinions.
 
I found this online:

USPSA Latest Edition Rule Book, except for the equipment rules which are as follows:

Pistols
The definition of a 1911 Pistol is as follows: The 1911 Government Model as designed by John M. Browning, manufactured by Colt and adapted by the U.S. Government as a service pistol, (commonly known as a 5 inch Gov't Model).

And:

In its final form, the M1911 was a locked-breech, single-action semi-automatic pistol. It was chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge and had a magazine capacity of seven rounds. Its weight unloaded was 39 ounces; overall length was 8.25"; the height was 5.25". Sights were fixed, although the rear sight was housed in a dovetail slot that allowed it to be drifted either left or right for windage adjustments. The pistols were finished in blue and fitted with checked wood stocks.


Therefore we can conclude that a "true" 1911 has the following features

1) Produced by Colt in 1911
2) Was a U.S. Government as a service pistol
3) Has a locked-breech
4) Is a single-action semi-automatic pistol
5) Is chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge
6) Has a magazine capacity of seven rounds
7) Fixed sights
8) Blue finish
9) Wooden checked stocks.
Plus Black Majik's expertise
10) 3 safeties
11) The thumb safety: Down to fire, up for safe
12) Barrel Lug
13) Single stack
14) Internal extractor

If YOUR 1911 doesn't meet the above quallifications stop talking about MY 1911 and start talking to the hand. :neener:
 
Is there a point to this trolling, mrhuckins? Are you just really ignorant, and stubbornly trying to stay that way, or are you just trying to provoke people by acting like an idiot? :rolleyes:
 
Congratulations Sean, you have just succeded in offending me more than anyone else on THR has so far. I can certainly take any kind of jibe or jest, but resorting to name calling? How childish.

I could say more, but I think I'll take the high road on this one.

If anyone has any real input on what they think a "true" 1911 is, I'm still listening.
 
mrhuckins,
Sent you a pm about the holster for the P345. Let me know. I'm staying out of this discussion. :D Happy Memorial Day to everyone!!
 
You came here saying a bunch of inaccurate nonsense and being a smartass about it.

mrhuckins said:
Well, you guys are certainly allowed to have your opinions, no matter how wrong they are.

Taking that kind of attitude when YOU are the one who is wrong, what kind of reception did you expect? :scrutiny:

Here is a hint: LOOK AT THE GUNS. They do not look anything like each other. Some obvious points:

Slide mounted safety/decocker on the Ruger instead of the frame moutned safety on the 1911... completely different mechanism than the 1911 uses

Double-action pivoting trigger instead of single-action trigger... again, a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT mechanism than the 1911 uses.

No grip safety on the Ruger. The 1911 has one.

Lockup is actually completely different, too... the Ruger locks up in the ejection port like a Glock, the 1911 lockup uses radial lugs on the top of the barrel. Ruger calling it a 1911 action is, in fact, not accurate.

Recoil system is different too.

I'm also pretty sure the Ruger uses a cam on the bottom of the barrel instead of a swinging link like the 1911.

None of the parts are interchangeable between the two... a big hint they are at most remotely related designs.
 
Well, being new to handguns, and tending to take the written word of a gun manufacturer (I'm guessing they are professionals) isn't so far-fetched or unreasonable is it?

Goodness, more name calling?

I'll bite my tongue and take the high road again.
 
Fire! Fire!

Rushin' in with fire extinguisher...on account of Johnny is probably oversleepin'... :p Ya'll behave now!

Mrhuckins is awfully close to the truth. The tilting barrel designs are pretty much carbon copies of the Colt-Browning system...all tilting barrel designs. The heart of the pistol is pretty much simon pure 1911.

The linkless system works exactly like the falling link, without the drawbacks of a moving part. Take two 1911 barrels...one with the link and one without...and study the geometry as the slidestop pin moves through its arc.
You'll see that they accomplish exactly the same thing. It's not a double camming surface, as some have suggested. The lower part of the enclosed lug does nothing beyond unlocking the barrel, and has nothing to do with return to battery. Once the slide starts to move forward, it's all 1911.

The recoil system is different...but then, so is any recoil system with a FLGR or Reverse-Plug setup. It still operates exactly the same way. Spring compresses...spring releases stored energy to return the slide to battery.

It doesn't look like a 1911...but neither did the once-popular 327 Chevy engine in an AMC Jeep or Gremlin. (Anybody remember those?) :D
It looked like a Jeep...or Gremlin...but it had the heart of a Corvette. :cool:
 
So, are you saying my 1911 is only an ugly step-cousin of the "real" 1911's? :neener: j/k
 
Ruger does 'make' 1911s.....the 'Pine Tree' plant produces the Caspian 1911 frames..LOL..Just breaking nutz!!! :neener:
 
Pine Tree Pistols

LOL deltaop! True...True.

Another point that I forgot is in the locking system. While some of the tilting barrel pistols do lock on a single lug at the ejection port...it operates on the same principle. Many builders fit the barrels to lock in the horizontal plane
on the first lug only...the strongest one...and often leave the other two hangin' in the air. The .45's relatively low pressures allow for this...even though the two forward lugs are supposed to share the load. Sometimes a barrel and slide will pick up one of the other ones...while a select few will
get all three. Some smiths fit to deliberately get all lugs online, while others will fit for two.

In the early days, the barrels were purposely fitted so that two lugs bore the load, with a third...usually the #1 lug...barely clearing. The lockup was then
equalized by firing high-pressure proof loads that literally beat the two bearing lugs back until the other one came into play. Lightly flanged lugs on older pistols often bear witness to the practice. The only problem was that working headspace increased by a like amount of lug setback...usually only a thousandth or two...but still a factor if the headspace was a little on the loose side to start with.

Just a little history/trivia for you 1911 students... :cool:
 
Ok, mr huckins, time for firearms identification 101. Real basic here ok. Try to follow...

This is a Ruger P345:
KP345PR.jpg

This a 1911:
o1991.jpg

Just because your pistol has some of the same basic mechanics or features as the 1911, does NOT make it one. It's not marketed as one and should not be confused as one. The vast number of firearms do share similar action workings but that doesn't make them the same model. A Kia has a combustion engine, 4 wheels/tires and a steering system similar to many other makes & models. However, that doesn't make all those Kias into Fords of Chevys. :rolleyes:
 
As I was telling ulflyer in a private conversation, the SA trigger pull is long and hard. So, by the time I fire off a round it usually goes a little wide.

Reliablility is 100% so far, and I have about 200 rounds through her. Had her to the range twice. Firing at 21 feet, and 42 feet, that baby blasts the middle out of every target I shoot at. And I'm not the best shooter by far. This is the most accurate handgun I have fired in a long time. It's even more accurate than my Sig 229 .40, and way more fun to shoot.

No offense, but if the trigger pull is long & hard making your shot go wide, than how do you blast the middle out of a target at 42 feet? :confused:

I just purchased a Ruger P95D and haven't had a chance to shoot it yet due to weather. My thoughts are, if it shoots as good as it handles, then I was going to invest in a P345 1911.

I don't shoot nearly as well as you do, so knowing what to expect is important to me. I won't be able to try my P95D until next Tuesday or Wednesday... :cuss:

Thanks
 
No offense, but if the trigger pull is long & hard making your shot go wide, than how do you blast the middle out of a target at 42 feet?

I'm sorry, but I think I misspoke earlier. When the pistol is in DA, the trigger pull is long and hard. Durring normal SA firing mode the trigger pull is much shorter and ligher. I scanned the owners manual and website for specifics on the trigger pull, but couldn't find any specifics. I think normal SA trigger pull for most firearms is between 6 and 4 pounds. I'm no expert by far, but I think the SA action is within this range.

As far as the rest of you are concerned, if you don't have any helpful input with specific information, or questions for an owner of the Ruger P345, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't post at all. Telling someone who is new at handguns something like "cant you just LOOK at it and SEE that its different?" Name calling also is not helpful input. If your going to be insulting and condesending to me, I'd appreciate it if you would just keep moving and keep your comments to yourself.

I've tried to be a good sport about your jibes and insluts, but I've had enough. In fact this thread has just about convinced me that THR community is one that I don't want to be a part of. Is this really the impression THR members are trying to give to those that are trying to learn more about firearms? Just because you know more about firearms than someone else is no reaon to be rude. It is however a good opportunity to share your knowledge. Which I thought was the point of joining this online community in the first place.
 
Your initial statements simply brought out people correcting you of your error. You're the individual that continued to debate us. You've stated your a beginner to this so most in your situation would take the knowledge and information goiven to you by others more familiar with this area a littlemore seriously and not debate the clear cut issue so much. I'm betting most involved in this thread believe this. Stay if you wish here at THR - there's a wealth of knowledge available from the members.
Good day.
 
So, because you feel that I didn't take "information a little more seriously" is justification to be rude and insluting?

Secondly, I don't think that quoting from an owners manual or asking for input after someone pointed out where I misunderstood what the owners manual said, is a sign of debate.

Thirdly, it isn't until post 27 that someone even attempts to offer a smidgen of information that points out the differences between my Ruger with a 1911 action and a real 1911. I think thats because the definition of a real 1911 is subjective depending on the one giving the answer. A 1911 is different things to different people.

Fourth, since this thread has turned from a discussion about firearms into a discussion about other things, I think I don't care to see anymore posts here. So, post what you like and be as insulting and rude as you like. I choose not to participate anymore.

Fifth, I still love my Ruger P345 1911 action firearm.
 
They must be 1911's both are made of steel

I'm going to drive to the store in my 1911 Ford (it's made of steel) and walk inside in my 1911 shoes (steel shank).

But I have to look through S & W glasses (titanium).

Can't have everything.

By the above criteria, I guess the possibilities are endless.

:D :D :D :D
 
OMG! If Mrhuckins thinks he has a 1911, let him! My question is why would you want to glue wood grips to your plastic framed ruger! Im not trying to insult you here! But would that not look awfull? :barf:

I agree with 1911tuner 100percent, you can't argue with the truth! All most all pistols borrow one thing or another from the genius Mr Browning! :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top