I may finally get a Hi Power- need suggestions

[chaim]

I think I'm finally going to get myself a Hi Power, probably a clone. I need your imput.

I didn't used to be interested in the HP design. However, three things changed my mind. I am a huge CZ fan and one of my favorite things is how well it fits my hand. Well, the CZ is ergonomically based on the HP line so I started thinking about trying one out. Then while thinking it may be worth trying, I started to notice threads here and on the 1911 forum about the FEGs and figured that at $200 or so I wouldn't be risking much to see if I liked the design. Finally, I got a chance to shoot an FEG HP belonging to a fellow THRer (then a fellow TFLer) and I was very impressed w/ both the HP design and the FEG.

So I have a limited amount of money available right now but I've been thinking about buying my first gun since summer. I think I've narrowed it down to one of a few options, all HP designs.

-Several local shops have FN and some have Browning badged BHPs right now. However, they are a bit over my budget at the moment (they start at nearly $700).

-A couple stores have FMs and FEGs right now.

-My favorite store currently has an FM and an FEG.

My options:

-The FM does seem much nicer than the FEG. The finish is nicer and it is based on a more recent HP design (the FEG has the original small safety lever and extremely small military style sights). It costs nearly $100 more than the FEG, but about $300 less than the FNs, and it seems like the quality is up there w/ guns running significantly more than the FM.

-The FEG is a great value. It is a very inexpensive gun and seems to have a good reputation. The sights and finish are very crude though and thus I'd probably be happier w/ the FM (though the cost savings is a big advantage and I think I'd still be very happy w/ the FEG).

-The way I'm currently leaning is waiting for my tax return, and assuming both are still around I could get both. I live in MD w/ a one a month law, but if I buy from the same shop at the same time I can buy two at once and wait two months instead of one before I can buy another gun. If I buy both from the same shop I may be able to negotiate a package deal, especially since I've bought 4 guns there and transfered another (for a bit more than I could have elsewhere) in the past 2 1/2 years and they know I referred my best friend to them about a year ago who bought two guns from them as well. This should still be a little less than buying an FN.

-I could also wait for my tax return and buy the real deal and get one of the FN or Browning marked BHPs. However, this would be a bit more than I really want to spend (even after I get my return).

-An unlikely option is to spend most of my return on guns and get an FN and the FEG or FM.

-I could shop around until I find a good used FN or Browning marked BHP. I'd get the real thing but it would be used (no big deal if in good shape) and still be a bit more than the FM and significantly more than the FEG.

Keep in mind that this is MD where there is now that infernal built-in lock law. None of these has the lock and none that I know of have plans to incorporate one. Thus, with the exception of the used gun, whichever option I choose will be it. I can't buy one or more of the others later.

So what do you guys suggest?

 

[hondo68]

What Hi-Power arsenal would be complete without a .40 and a few spare mags? Then you need a .357SIG barrel for it, of course. Is that tax return burned up yet?

 

[chaim]

I have never been that big a fan of the .40S&W cartridge. It doesn't really do anything that the better 9mm loadings don't do and it doesn't really offer anything over a .45acp either. With it you then lose the cheap loadings available in 9mm and the more effective .45acp capabilities.

However, lately I've been coming around a bit. I already have a 9mm, and I will have more for cheaper practice. I have a CZ 40B that I got in .40S&W because that is all it is available in and I would have bought it in 9mm if it was available. However, the .40 does do its job and in effective loadings it isn't really any more expensive than effective 9mm loadings. So long as one also has a 9mm or .22lr for cheaper practice I guess it doesn't really have a disadvantage over 9mm.

Anyway, I really want HP suggestions so I shouldn't turn this into a caliber war thread. I just said that to say that I would consider a .40S&W HP eventually (I guess used or after I move most likely) but I want to start w/ one (or two) in 9mm. Plus, this is the classic loading in this classic gun so I feel I should start w/ a 9mm (though not necessarily stop there) just as I feel one should start w/ a .45acp 1911 and then go to 1911s chambered for other calibers if so inclined.

 

[ojibweindian]

Given the current condtions as you describe them, it sounds as if the HP and HP clones will be illegal in your state sometime soon. With that in mind, I'd go with the Browning HP, as long as buying it would not be too much of a budget-buster.

 

[Coltdriver]

If you are thinking of buying both the FM and the FEG you are probably talking over $500 right??

So, just start shopping now and you can find a good used example of a HP for $500 or less.

They are not rare guns. FN made millions of them. The gun stores love to over price them and $700 is pure fantasy.

You could purchase a brand new FN Hi Power (Browning no longer imports them) for under $500. Go over to www.fnhipower.com and do some more homework.

To be honest with you, unless you want a basic junk shooter I would not waste my money on an FEG. The FEG is not a 100% pure copy as all HP parts do not interchange with it. An FM is just an Argentine HP built under license. They are not bad but still, really, just a junk shooter.

For what you describe as your budget you just need to get cash in hand and start shopping. Once you have a real HP you can always get your money back out of it, heck you may even find a sucker willing to part with $700 for yours

In the last 18 months I have purchased one 1989 MK III in excellent condition for $360 and one 1968 "T" series for $550.

You can do it, just don't help perpetuate this $700 each nonsense that is so common.

Let us know what you do.

 

[chaim]

...just don't help perpetuate this $700 each nonsense that is so common.

Not nonsense around here. The cheapest new FN or Browning badged Hi Power I've seen around here was $689!

As far as buying new online and transfering it, that isn't an option because of the new law. Even if it was made before 1/1/03 and it is technically legal, no dealer will transfer it in since if it was after 1/1/03 it wouldn't comply w/ the law and it would be hard to verify that it was a pre-1/1/03 before it was here. Also, I wouldn't want to pay for it, with no chance of getting my money back, w/out such verification. Even asking before buying won't necessarily protect me as the dealer that has it could be wrong (besides which, as I already mentioned, I haven't found a dealer around here yet willing to transfer a pre-03 gun without the lock just in case there was a mistake and it turned out to be a MD illegal post-03 gun w/out the built-in lock).

So it is sounding like the building concensous is to ignore the FM or FEG and just buy a used FN.

Interesting. All the buzz I've read in the past was that the FM and FEG are very good guns and great bargains for someone on a budget (which I certainly am). Has anything about their quality changed that I'm unaware of?

It is a major plus that I can get both for the price of one new FN (probably a little less actually). As far as a used FN, they will remain available as the new law only effects new guns, and used FNs and Brownings aren't particularly scarce, so there is no rush for a used FN. If I'd do that I'd get something else that won't be available after the current stock sells out, maybe another CZ, and get the used FN later.

 

[Coltdriver]

I did not realize the laws in your state prevented you from buying new and having it transferred in.

Can you buy used and have it transferred in??

I don't think the quality of the FM's or the FEG's is way sub par, but they are not up to the quality of an authentic FN.

If yer gonna buy two cheaper ones, one of which won't swap parts with a "real" one, why not go for the gusto and get a real FN version. In your state it looks like you could get your money back any day!

A lot of the fellows with FM's are very happy with them. But its still an FM and it will be as easy to get a ton of money into it as it would be to put the same money into an FN.

If you can buy used and have it shipped in, cruise the boards and be ready to pounce. There are still lots of Browning deals out there.

 

[Tecolote]

Consistency

Be careful with the FEGs. There are versions that do not interchange with Browning HPs despite the model number they might have. Make sure to check whether the one you're looking at is a true clone. FMs are true clones but like FEGs QC is spotty. You've got the same chance of getting a gem as you do a rat. The outside is always prettier than the inside, you'll see plenty of machine marks on the FEG and FM, but that shouldn't affect function. The earlier FMs had problems with frame cracking. I'm not sure if the problem was fixed. If you're planning on doing any custom work go with a used Browning. You'll start with a higher quality platform that you know will accept the custom parts without major fitting.

 

[ddc]

chaim,

I can't compare Brownings quality to FM or FEG as the only HiPowers I've ever owned, or shot, have been Brownings.

There is a huge amount of knowledge on this board but I'd also second the previous suggestion to go over to www.fnhipower.com because those guys are hi power experts.

Over there I don't recall quite the negative bias towards FMs or FEGs that seems to be evident in this thread although I think both are felt to be second class citizens compared to the real thing with FEG definitely ranking behind FM.

Good luck, whichever way you choose to go....

 

[chaim]

I did not realize the laws in your state prevented you from buying new and having it transferred in.

It doesn't but... The law requires the gun to be made before 1/1/03 if it doesn't have a lock. If it was it is legal to bring it into the state. However, many dealers (all that I've talked to so far) won't do the transfer if there is no built-in lock as there is no way to know for sure until you have the gun and can check it (they seem afraid to rely on the other dealers, who admittedly could make a mistake).

Another complication is the shell casing law. If the gun doesn't come with a factory fired shell casing it can't be sold here.

So I'd need to find a dealer willing to do the transfer (and risk temporarily possessing an illegal gun if it turns out to be post-Jan 1, 2003), a seller who can accurately tell me it is a pre-2003 gun (and is willing to take it back and return my money if he's wrong), and a gun that has a pre-fired shell (for the "ballistic fingerprint" law).

Can you buy used and have it transferred in??

Yes, though as time goes on that is going to become a problem. The law isn't for new guns, it is for all guns. No gun can be brought into the state that was made after 1/1/03 unless it has the built-in lock. As post-1/1/03 guns start hitting the used market there will be problems in MD. I'm not sure how this will affect people who move here from elsewhere w/ guns made post 1/1/03 but without the lock.

For right now that is absolutely no problem however.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Chaim, the serial number of a Browning or FN pistol will tell you when the pistol was manufactured. Any dealer looking at transferring it for you can verify this himself on Browning's website. If they still won't do it after that, I guess they are pretty lawyer shy.

I have shot both the FEG and FM and I think both are good guns. My main concerns would be:

A) Higher chance of getting a lemon from FM or FEG than from Browning

B) If you buy the FN/Browning, you know it will still be going strong 20,000 rounds from now. The FEGs and FMs are an unknown for longevity. There may be people out there with that kind of round count through those pistols; but I haven't run into them yet.

 

[Coltdriver]

You can purchase a brand new FN Hi Power for under $500.

The dealers that sell them new are authorized by FNMI of South Carolina. FNMI is a wholly owned subsidiary of Fabrique Nationale and they import the Hi Power now.

Tell the dealer your issue with manufacture date and tell him the only way you will buy the gun is with a letter from the factory stating the date of manufacture.

So there is the real deal and it is worth the hassle.

 

[Tecolote]

Very interested in the under $500 NIB HPs. How do I order from them? Please share the information.

 

[Coltdriver]

Go to www.fnmfg.com

Dig through until you find the dealer page.

Start calling their listed dealers, see what they will offer you one for. Some are very high, some are very reasonable.

These are new FN Hi Powers, made in Belgium by Fabrique Nationale.

They are a nice black finish that looks like a baked enamel. They are not the same finish as the Browning HPs that came in parkerized, blue or a nice matte chrome.

For some reason it is the Browning imports that are marked up to ridiculous prices.

I have heard of the compacts being purchased via these dealer for sub $400. But you'd have to want a DAO or a BDAO compact and although they are the little brother of the full size and they look similar, they share no parts.

But they are the real deal

 

[BHP9]

Just remember one thing. When you pay less you get less, a lot less in quality.

Monetarily you lose twice. You lose when you sell the gun because it has very low resale value and you lose again when you finally buy quality because by then the price has increased on the quality gun and the quality gun in some situations may no longer even be available because it was discontinued because it was not making the maker the same amount of huge profit he is now making on a redesgined model made with cheaper materiels.

Wait and save your money and then by quality. Or shop for a good used quality gun. You may even end up buying one for way less than a new gun of lesser quality.

 

[Kahr carrier]

Some of the copies of High powers are nice ,but I would stick to the original Browning Highpower .Try looking in the used gun section just a week ago I found a Silver Chrome Highpower that looked like it had never been shot for $400.00 ,my buddy was drooling so much while I was holding it ,I handed to him and said its calling you . I never seen anyone pull a credit card out so fast.