I must confess, the AR-15 platform confuses the heck out of me

[MaterDei]

I've been really wanting to build an AR-15 but I must confess that all of the options confuse the heck out of me. I bought a Stag stripped lower at a gun show today ($104) and will be building my first EBR in the coming weeks/months.

I've tried AR-15.com forums and there is just too much to wade through there. Can you guys please help me? Here are my questions.

1. I need to finish out the lower receiver, where and what should I buy? Is a drop in trigger housing good or just easy? I like a good trigger but don't need anything too fancy or light. Something close to my Kimber would be ideal.

2. Should I get a complete upper or buy the parts separately? I want a flat top with carrying handle (I'll add optics at a later date). I'd like a good barrel but don't need a super duper tack driver. What is a good barrel when it comes to quality vs. accuracy. I think I want chrome lined.

3. I'd like the foregrip to give me the option to add a light in the future.

4. I think I'll go with a collapsable stock. Are they all about the same or do I need to beware of certain brands?

5. I believe I've settled on a 16" barrel to give me more indoor maneuverability. What am I giving up accuracy wise if I get a 16 incher vs. a 20 incher?

I've invested $113 (w/tax) on the stripped lower and would like to be able to finish out the rest of the rifle, not including optics and light, for under $1000.

Thanks in advance.

Michael

 

[zinj]

I don't know how much this helps, but Del-Ton makes complete kits that are fairly popular. They come with everything to build on a stripped lower and are pretty inexpensive.

 

[trueblue1776]

A complete lower kit from DPMS runs about 70 bucks (+/- $20), add stock and buffer tube (sky is the limit, figure at least 70 bucks for a decent set).

Ta daaaa, lower is complete!

Buy a complete upper for around $450-600 and you're in biz! Just add full mags...

 

[MaterDei]

How is the quality of the del-ton stuff? Any specific recommendations? A complete upper sounds nice, what can you recommend with my requirements?

 

[stevetford]

I am not sure on the quality, but Model 1 sales www.model1sales.com will give you everything you need to make a complete rilfe using your stripped lower and the good part is now you are done with FFL transfer fees. Good luck with it

 

[hags]

1. I need to finish out the lower receiver, where and what should I buy? Is a drop in trigger housing good or just easy? I like a good trigger but don't need anything too fancy or light. Something close to my Kimber would be ideal.

Well, you need a lower parts kit, Stag/CMT make a darn good one. What do you mean by "drop in trigger housing"?
The LPK comes with a stock trigger, usually a 6 to 8 pound pull. If you're lucky enough to get one with little to no creep they aren't that bad.

2. Should I get a complete upper or buy the parts separately? I want a flat top with carrying handle (I'll add optics at a later date). I'd like a good barrel but don't need a super duper tack driver. What is a good barrel when it comes to quality vs. accuracy. I think I want chrome lined.

That depends on your skill level and abilities. The sky is the limit on what you can build. The benefit of building one is you can choose the level of quality and performance you want out of every part, eg, chrome moly versus a stainless barrel, etc...

3. I'd like the foregrip to give me the option to add a light in the future.

Then you'll probably want a rail(ed) handguard. Again, numerous brands to choose from.

4. I think I'll go with a collapsable stock. Are they all about the same or do I need to beware of certain brands?

There are dozens of collapsable stocks on the market, most from reputable manufacturers. Pick your flavor.

5. I believe I've settled on a 16" barrel to give me more indoor maneuverability. What am I giving up accuracy wise if I get a 16 incher vs. a 20 incher?

Nothing, the quality of the barrel and chamber determine the accuracy of the barrel. You'll be giving up velocity, which will be dependent on the type of ammo you're using.

I've invested $113 (w/tax) on the stripped lower and would like to be able to finish out the rest of the rifle, not including optics and light, for under $1000.

I don't think you'll have any problems finishing the rifle sans optics and light for under $1000 !!!!!!

Most of all have fun and explore your options before buying, go the local range and bother guys with ARs. Most are all to happy to shoot their mouths off.

 

[Snark]

I was in the same position about a year and a half ago. Assembling the lower was easier than expected (but i did lose one of those pesky detent pins). Definitely go with an assembled upper, unless you are planning on building many ARs. I REALLY wanted a 16inch barrel with midlength handguards. I got a RRA, which was very nice and good quality, but it was heavy under the handguards and didn't balance well for me. I sold it and bought a Stag Arms complete upper. M4 profiled barrel, chrome lined, and comes with a flip-up rear sight. I think it was $475.00 from a dealer on AR15. Great quality, in my opinion, the best value out there.

As far as accuracy between 20" and 16", most would say there is no difference in accuracy, only a difference in velocity.

 

[modifiedbrowning]

I would buy a complete upper. If you build a complete upper you will need to buy additional tools, like a barrel wrench, etc.
As far as lights, grips etc are concerned they can be added later after you buy a railed forearm. Learn to shoot your new rifle well and then worry about adding things.

 

[W.E.G.]

I recommend that you go with a free-float barrel from the git-go.

Float vs. No-Float is a big-decision item. Its much easier to absorb the slight extra cost of the float hardware at the outset, than to convert later. Plus, you know that's what everybody wants anyway.

I recommend that you reconsider the wait-for-later decision on optics. You can spend a LOT of money on spiffy iron sights for an AR-type gun. I'm pretty sure your pickup truck won't get IED'd on the way to the range. So, there is no more chance of needing "backup sights" on an AR than there is on your "huntin' rifle." Skip the iron sights initially, and get an optic sight at the outset.

A 16" AR-type gun with a free-float handguard and even the cheapest scope will probably shoot MOA groups all day.

I highly recommend the low-profile (no sight tower) gas block.



You can stick the neato B.U.I.S. stuff on the handguard rail later if you really want the extra weight. B.U.I.S. stuff makes good holiday/birthday list stuff.

Get a simple four-rail handguard/float-tube. Accessorize to your taste.

+$200 trick pony

 

[MaterDei]

Thanks for all the great advice. Keep it coming.

hags, this is what I mean by a 'drop in' trigger. It's their description, not mine.

http://www.del-ton.com/Chip_McCormick_Trigger_p/lp1071.htm

 

[DougW]

Del-Ton is great. So is M&A, Model1, J&T, and others. I have just completed a backup M4'gery for my son (who ordered the kit from his FOB in Iraq) with a Del-Ton kit. He miss ordered the upper, and they changed it out for a small fee, plus shipping. Great people! All the parts went together perfectly. I would recomend a M4 type kit with a flat top upper, some sort of BUIS, and then choose the optics and light set of your choice. You can always modify the rifle to suit your wishes. AR15.com has good assembly instructions. MidwayUSA and Brownell's do to in their tech areas. I have done 9 AR's now, and it takes less time each time I build one. Del-Ton will be getting all my future business BTW.

 

[W.E.G.]

...or with the irons if you simply must squint



"donut of death" thing has a certain appeal too.



+$200 noise-mitigator installed on "primitive" upper assembly and bargain-bin stock.

 

[W.E.G.]

...so you can see

I relate to your feelings of indecision

This mess started with a $100 receiver.

That reminds me... I need to shop for a trigger.

 

[GunTech]

Check out Brownells.com They have all sorts of goodies for your AR from many different manufacturers. You can build the Ar-15 is several hundred variations, so it get very confusing to the tyro.

I agree about the free float handguards. It's one of the most basic mods that yields a high return in accuracy. Make sure that you mount a sling on the handguard, not the barrel if you float.

WEG, Your M-forgery look a lot like mine, except I have the ACE stock - soon to be a Magpul. I also got the who MIAD grip

You have to look carefully, but the handguad is free floated:

 

[W.E.G.]

Cool rifle. But put a maga....!!! (oh wait... that's that other board)

The rifle in my pics isn't really an M4gry. Barrel is 4" too short to be a 4gry.
Other stuff too, really puts it way-geek past 4gry.

 

[Zeke Menuar]

There are too many directions you can go with the AR



If you can assemble the lower, you can do the trigger yourself. It took me about 20 minutes to cleanup the stock trigger.

I have Stag lowers and use Stag parts kits.

The collapsible stock is a Stag commercial stock, but I've been known to change back to the solid A2 stock if the need arises.

ZM

 

[Mr White]

As for your trigger, you should at least consider a Rock River Arms National Match trigger group. I've shot standard single stage triggers and have an RRA on my AR, and IMO, a good 2 stage trigger makes a real difference in accuracy. If you want to build a good AR for a reasonable price, a good trigger is a must. They're about $120 at Brownells and otehr places.

 

[aloharover]

Just wondering, why does every pic have the selector on fire instead of safe?

 

[hags]

hags, this is what I mean by a 'drop in' trigger. It's their description, not mine.

http://www.del-ton.com/Chip_McCormic...r_p/lp1071.htm

Got it, yes, I've played with the Mccormick and the Timney drop in triggers. They're nice, single stage triggers. They were released a couple of years ago and had some minor problems. Mostly they'd double after a few hundred rounds. I know that both manufacturers pulled their products off the market for awhile.
They are now both back on the market again and have remedied those problems.

As for your trigger, you should at least consider a Rock River Arms National Match trigger group. I've shot standard single stage triggers and have an RRA on my AR, and IMO, a good 2 stage trigger makes a real difference in accuracy. If you want to build a good AR for a reasonable price, a good trigger is a must. They're about $120 at Brownells and otehr places.

I use a few of these myself and they are a great two stage for the money. They do have a tendency to loose the second stage after a few hundred to a thousand rounds. It's an easy fix and there are a few places that'll rework them for you, should you have a problem.
I have one that was reworked by John Hollinger at WOA and it is one of my best triggers.
For the ultimate in an AR two stage trigger consider the Geissele High Speed two stage. It's been called pricey by more than a few people but it is second to none for an AR trigger.
Geissele is set to release a commercial version of their SOCOM trigger later this fall and the predicted retail price is well in the ballpark of other aftermarket AR triggers. I'd hold out for this one.

 

[SecuritySixShooter]

"Just wondering, why does every pic have the selector on fire instead of safe?"

Because if the hammer isnt cocked it cant be put on safe.

 

[gunman42782]

This is a Double Star lower and Del-Ton kit upper. I also have a Bushmaster I bought complete. I can not tell one bit of difference, quality wise, between the two. I can not recommend Del-Ton (and Double star, for that matter) highly enough. They are a great outfit!

 

[GunTech]

SSS, you beat me to it.

WEG, that's an SBR? Is it reliable? I hate to go under 14.5, because I've always ended up having problems. I went up to 16 to get the extra fps. My daugher has a 14.5 on hers, with a permanent flash hider to make 16. She's 13, and we wanted to go light. I though about the Calvalry arms lower, but I like the Magpul grips too much.

She wouldn't let me use pink Cavalry furniture. I was going to put Barbie sticker on it too. She told me "Dad, it's supposed to be black."

I wish someone made blaze orange furniture.

 

[GunTech]

Your best bet is to make sure the receiver is forged. Milled from stock is OK too. But cast aluminum receivers have been know to have cracking problems.

I have never seen a better made and more dimensionally correct receiver than those made by Mega. No experience with Delton or Double Star. It seems these days, everyone and his dog is making AR parts.

My picks are Fulton, DPMS, Mega. Most of them cost about the same. Generally, if you find one that cheap, there's a reason.

Here's a review of the Mega receivers. Note that Mega makes recivers for other companies to resell under their own name: Alexander Arms, for example.

http://www.commtechreview.net/firearms/megalwr.htm

 

[W.E.G.]

WEG, that's an SBR? Is it reliable?

Only with "hot" ammo (Q3131 and XM193 for example).

I've had poor results with Prvi Partisan, and Wolf.

The SBR generally wears a Gemtech HALO suppressor, so this gives considerably more gas port pressure than with just the bare muzzle. Maybe there is a reason for deploying a rifle like this with just the 10.5" barrel, but I can't think of one. The muzzle blast from the 10.5" barrel without the suppressor is ungodly. One shot with it indoors in low light without the suppressor and you might as well stick a grenade up your butt, as you will be deaf and blind.

By contrast, with the suppressor, there is no muzzle flash whatsoever, and it sounds about the same as an unsuppressed .22 rimfire rifle. Much more "crack" than "ka-pow."

You don't want to fire too many shots all at once in a confined space unless you can tolerate the smoke and fumes. The expensive "Gasbuster" charging handle helps. But, its no absolute cure.

 

[GunTech]

LOL.

I'm still waiting for the movie scene after an indoor gunfight, where everyone is deaf and going "Huh? What did you say?"

I was running a course in a killing house a while back and lost an ear plug before firing my SA SOCOM. Who needs stun grenades?

Nice rifle, nice can.