I need some M1Carbine Education

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twoblink

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So.. since I am going to get some money back from what the government stole from me (tax refund!!) I've decided I'm probably going to use it towards the M1Carbine fund...

I had 3 funds:

Ruger GP100
Timberwolf 357Mag Pump Rifle
M1Carbine

The M1Carbine is a little bit ahead of the other two right now, and so I need to be educated on them..

There seems to be a WHOLE PILE of history about them, and there are cruddy ones, and good ones... But from my readings, I can't really tell which is what.

Which are "ones to avoid"? What am I looking for in a good one?
 
You're mostly just wanting one to shoot? Not interested in "high grade collector gun"?

It's pretty much the usual used-gun deal, with (IMO) the GI versions being somehow the better ones. At one time or another I've shoot most of the different "brands" of GI stuff, and they've all been about the same: Reliable, and roughly 3- to 4-MOA critters. (Well, for my eyes, anyway.)

Fjestad's Blue Book has a pretty good run-down on the various manufacturers, how many they made, etc. Prices have risen a lot in the last few years, with the rather sudden "collectability" of them.

Spare parts are plentiful and generally not very expensive.

Art
 
twoblink:

You'll find me on BattleRifles.com in the Carbine and M1A sections... BattleRifles is really pretty much the only other forum I visit on a regular basis, primarily because, well, there is more information on BattleRifles.com if you are a Carbine or M1A junky.

Another good source - though they use 17th century (if that) forum technology - is http://www.jouster.com

Those are some great first stops on your journey...

Next up, I'd recommend spending a little on some research materials, especially if you are going to go USGI and get an 'authentic' carbine.

For the historical aspect, the book "War Baby Comes Home the U.S. Carbine" by L. Ruth is pretty much the bible... here's a copy for $40 - actually a great deal:

http://www.motorbooks.com/cgi-bin/W...details?id=8440&a=141&AID=10273966&PID=399515

For learning about this 3/4 rifle from an operational and maintenance perspective, Duff's "M1 Carbine Owner's Guide" is essential reading... I bought mine from the man himself:

http://www.scott-duff.com/DuffBooks.htm

What's neat about the Carbine is that 10 different manufacturers cranked these "Babies" out back in the day, and all the parts are interchangable. I can't vouch for the newer commercial 'knock-offs' in regards to parts compatibility.

Personally, I think USGI is the way to go, not only for reliability and compatibility, but for history and that "Mojo" factor. I like Winchester because of the 'brand' (I live near the Winchester Mystery House) and the fact that they won the original contract.

What the collector is looking for is something 'original', meaning, all original parts with the correct markings... wood stock with the correct markings, etc. There are very few rifles matching this description, as most were rebuilt at one point or another.

The collector pays for this 'all original' status, but it makes not one bit of difference in shootability of the gun. In fact, an all original carbine may become something that you don't WANT to shoot, because it becomes an investment.

That's why I suggest you buy a nice "Mixmaster" USGI carbine... manufacturer doesn't really matter. "Mixmaster" means that it is a collection of parts - the receiver may be one manufacturer, the bolt another, etc.

If you are a brand snob (I'm guilty of this), take your time and search... you may find a Rock-ola or an IBM... Winchesters are fairly common (2nd highest production behind Inland/General Motors), and that's my choice.

I lucked out an inherited a beautiful, all original Winchester carbine (#5670409) for just over $700.... now I'm having another Winchester receiver built up in a restoration so that I have a gun I can really beat on... I feel just a little guilty shooting that Winchester, with its original barrel.

God, I hope I'm not becoming a collector.

Pick up a "Shotgun News" if you can find one where you're at... tons of companies with ammo, parts and other stuff for the carbine. Mags are $10-25 for 15 rounders... Sarco sells a rebuild kit with fresh springs... after 50 years, springs may need to be changed.

Whew. Can you tell I like the little carbine?
 
My only advice is to.....

avoid the civillian produced models. Universal, Howa, Plainfield etc.

If at all possible stick with a GI receiver. I would also recommend changing out the springs on the gun and mags. I have yet to get around to doing this but will be in the near future.

I really don't think you will go wroing with a nice GI model.

You can get lucky with the non-GI models but IMO they are hit and miss and I have seen and heard of more misses.

I have also heard that Iver Johnson isn't exactly the cream of the crop but I have no experience with them nor do I know anybody personally who has had one.

Chris
 
I agree with cslinger: buy a US Carbine, not a reproduction. The only problem is, everybody likes the lil suckers and the price reflects that. Everybody likes it because it is a centerfire and compact. But remember it is about as powerful as a pistol but with 15 or 30 shots it was head and shoulders ahead of the sidearms available in 1945. Easier to shoot accurately and high capacity. What's not to like? :D

Inland Division of GM was one of the common makes.
 
Should I buy a receiver only, and build my own??

Some people say that the non-GI's suck badly.. So I assume you all are echoing the fact..

What am I looking for in a good one? Good barrel is obvious, but what are the weak/stress points...
 
I understand that Israel Military Industries are building these (or are they rebuilds of GI-issue weapons?). Has anyone had any experience with their offerings?
 
I shot runt_of_the_litter's IAI and there were no problems except that the rear sight kept drifting between the 100 and 200 yard settings.

Spend a couple hundred extra and go USGI.

Jump on Gunbroker and Auctionarms and start looking at what they are going for - it's not that bad.

-s
 
Might even try looking for a Blue Sky import. I bought one that is a Winchester for $400. Only problem is the "Blue Sky, Arlington VA" stamped on the barrel. But it's worth it to save $300+
 
If you are looking for just a "shooter", and not something that is truly collectable, then a mixmaster GI gun will do quite nicely. Yeah, it's cool to have a completely Rock-Ola gun, (or whatever is your favorite manufacturer of carbines), but you will pay at least 50% more for that over a mixmaster.

Good mixmasters (ones that fully function and have nothing but GI parts in them) generally run about $400-450. If they contain some of the more desireable parts (early flip type rear sights, barrel band WITHOUT bayonet lug), add another $50 or more.

Just look carefully, and a decent mixmaster shooter can be had.

A second choice would be a gun made up of good GI parts on a Rock Island Armory (NOT the gov't arsenal, the commercial firm located nearby) might be a good deal. However, with so many GI mixmasters out there, why mess around with somebody else's gunsmithing and assembly, unless you know it's provenance.
 
If you can find a nice GI Carbine at a decent price, that would be my first choice. Odds are you should be able to find a mixmaster which includes a bunch of M2 parts (e.g. stock, handguard, barrel band) w/o too much effort.

I've had no experience with the current-production IAI Carbines, though the opinions I've seen online have been mostly favorable.

OTH, I did own an Iver Johnson M1 that I bought new back in the '80s. I wound up having to send it back to the factory because the bolt was not properly heat treated and the lugs started to set back. :what:

My current Carbine is an Underwood (one of the GI manufacturers), and no, it ain't for sale. :)

IJs will accept GI parts.

Universal made a pseudo-M1 for a number of years. Parts are generally not interchangeable with GI guns.

ASSuming you get a GI M1, I second the idea of replacing at least the recoil spring -- it may be worn out. You can still get 15 round mags new in the wrapper for under $20. You won't need to replace the springs in such mags. Try out used mags before relying on them for social purposes, you may need to replace the springs if they've seen a lot of use.
 
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