I Need Some Saiga Answers (Please)

[Phydeaux642]

I think I am going to go ahead and start gathering parts to do the conversion, but I have a couple of questions first. I have been lurking at the Saiga forum and even joined so I could ask about a few things. I have searched the Saiga forum and Google but about 95% of what comes up is useless. I noticed many of the threads on the Saiga forum get hijacked without ever getting an answer for the OP. I know that this sometimes happens here, but I still enjoy this forum more than any of the others that I check in on.

So, here goes. I am thinking about using Master Molder mags for a while just because you don't have to install a bullet guide. However, I do want to get some regular AK mags and a bullet guide just in case. My question is this: Are any of the Eastern Bloc mags (like those on Classic Arms site for $12.95) just as good as the next. And, what do you have to do to get them to work in the Saiga? Do you modify the mag or the gun? Which is better to modify? What do you have to do to modify either?

Next, I guess I will get a Tapco trigger group, but which one? Do you get the single hook or the double hook? I noticed Classic Arms has a G3 listed and then there is the G2 at other places. What's the difference?

None of the conversion seems like it will be too difficult but it seems like the AR that I am trying to put together will be easier. This rifle stuff is new to me but I have been having fun reading on the subject.

 

[jackdanson]

Are any of the Eastern Bloc mags (like those on Classic Arms site for $12.95) just as good as the next.

From my experience all the eastern bloc mags work the same, and they are all great.

And, what do you have to do to get them to work in the Saiga? Do you modify the mag or the gun?

The gun. The mag release needs to be shortened and a bullet guide installed.

KEEP IN MIND In order to legally modify the gun to accept high cap steel mags you need to make it 922r compliant. Meaning that you need to replace a certain number of parts with american parts, I don't know the number off the top of my head.

The AR is easier to mod/build from scratch, but the saiga should take less maitenance. I never clean mine, my AR get a scrubbing every time I shoot it.

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm

 

[Evenflo76]

2nd that. If you are going to use foreign mags, YOU MUST CONVERT FULLY.

The price is right and the work is easy...

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/

 

[rangerruck]

Now then, I have converted the east german Weiger mags, because they are the simplest, and you do not have to install a bullet guide with them. so if you don't wanna be able to use ALL commie mags, and just stick with Weigers, you can just dremel them above and below the back latch, until they snap in place.
then you take a small steel tinscrew, that has a rounded head, and screw it down into the front latch of the mag, and then a drop of red loctite. All done. the screwhead acts as the bullet 'bump' when the cart is coming up out of the mag.
HOWEVER, once you start using full size , non american mags, you must convert you saiga's other parts to american made as well, or you will not be 922 compliant. So to be able to use any mags you wanna, you should put in a bullet guide anyway, takes about 10 minutes.

 

[rangerruck]

oh yeah, get the best trigger you can afford, the single hook is no real improvement, just better geometry and better quality steel. you want the g2 or g3, this will give you a better stage feel, and keep that infamous AK trigger slap down to none.

 

[LKB3rd]

You want a single hook tapco, unless you want to modify the receiver to clear the 2nd hook. No real reason to do so in most people's opinion. Some say the double hook has a crisper feel.
If you look in the trigger hole on the receiver, to the front you will see a small slot extending to the front on the saiga. That is where the single hook goes. If you want to use a double hook trigger, you need to make a 2nd slot on the other side.
Tapco g2 is the one that will fit the Saiga as is. I used an RSA vepr .308 for my s308, and it dropped in with no mods needed. I think that you may have to modify the Tapco g2, I think it's the hammer, to clear the safety. Dinzag ( www.dinzagarms.com ) sells one pre modified, and refinished that will drop right in, for all 3 calibers Saiga makes. He's also a good source for other parts.
Here is his FCG page, which also has pics of the cuts for single hook vs double hook. http://www.dinzagarms.com/misc_parts/fcgpgc.html

 

[MIL-DOT]

Yes, you want the Tapco single hook, maybe the others are a little better somehow, but the reciever isn't cut to accept them. The G2 single hook goes right in, no mods.
Yes, all the east-block steel mags are great,virtually identical in quality, and the Bulgarian polymers are widely considered the best of them all,they're my favorites as well.
AIMsurplus has some nice Bulgarian steel mags, brand new for $12.95, and i just got a few supposedly used Hungarians from CDNN that were in fact brand new, also for $12.95. As i understand, the Hungarians are parkerized then painted, giving them a leg-up IMO on all the other steel mags.
From what i've read, the Mastermolder and Surefire mags are plenty good, but i can't personally confirm or deny.
I had my local gunsmith covert mine. He's got the tools and the experience, and for around $40, i'm glad i did.
I also agree that Goggle and search functions are often close to useless. I'd suggest scrolling back on the Saiga forum and read whatever thread you can find that seems to apply to your particular question. Also, the AR15 forum is as good as anyplace for AK info. Click on "AK47," then on the "Russian" category, most of everything there is about Saigas. Good luck !

 

[railroader]

Saiga conversion: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saiga+conversion&search_type= Mark

 

[Starship1st]

You are correct about how often a thread at Saiga Forum is high jacked and I have seen where good questions go unanswered or told that it was asked already and do a search first.

The advice here is what I wanted to say and so good luck with your conversion.

 

[nalioth]

Did you look at the stickies over at forum.saiga-12.com ?

Did y'all know that the saiga forum (and this one) are searchable by Google? Use

 fire control group [COLOR="Red"]site:saiga-12.com[/COLOR]

in the Google search field to search the entire saiga-12.com domain for "fire control group".

For searching THR, you'd use

 blackpowder [COLOR="Red"]site:thehighroad.org[/COLOR]

to search for topics related to blackpowder.

The reason folks suggest the 'search' feature is that the same questions get answered all the time ( on a weekly schedule, if not more often ) and the answers don't change . . .

 

[Phydeaux642]

I searched the above way and every other way and I still got as much info in this one small thread as I did wasting quite a bit of time searching the other way. I still have a few more questions but that will be later after I get into the project. I ordered all of my stuff from Dinzag today.

 

[chris in va]

I just did my conversion a couple weeks ago. Any questions, just give me a PM as the procedure is still fairly fresh in my head.

Careful with that bullet guide tap. Turn it 1/8 turn at a time, back it out. Really easy just go SLOW. Shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.

 

[elmerfudd]

Personally, I like the Red Star Arms trigger. $70 at Copes. That's $40 more than a G2, but it's a lot less than you'll pay for most 4 way adjustable triggers.

You can make a G2 pretty good too, but it won't be nearly as nice as the RSA without a lot of grinding and polishing.

 

[nalioth]

Personally, I like the Red Star Arms trigger. $70 at Copes. That's $40 more than a G2, but it's a lot less than you'll pay for most 4 way adjustable triggers.

You can make a G2 pretty good too, but it won't be nearly as nice as the RSA without a lot of grinding and polishing.

Personally, I think using a Red Star Arms trigger in a Kalashnikov is like putting a quick detach race car steering wheel in your old clunker.

* Looks good.

* Spent lots of money.

* Doesn't affect the rest of the system at all ( the Kalashnikov was not designed for accuracy ).

 

[elmerfudd]

I don't think of $70 as lots of money. It's less than half a case of cheap ammo and unlike the G2 you have an actual second stage.

Maybe your Kalashnikovs are inaccurate, but mine all shoot 3 MOA or less or I don't keep them. Half of mine actually shoot 2 MOA or less.

 

[SN13]

Single hook G2 = No grinding of the second hook or cutting into the receiver to get it to fit.

Saiga rifles have 14 parts on the 922r list. If you use a US made Buttstock and Pistol grip and the 3 in the G2 trigger group, you'll be down to 10 parts which is fine to use foreign mags with.

You need to add something to act as a bullet guide. A piece of metal, or something to lift the nose of the cartridge up as it leaves the mag.

The master molder mags work great, I have 2 in my saiga. very nice.

If you're going to use combloc mags exclusively, modify your gun's retaining latch by doing a small bit of grinding.


Remember 922r: you start with 14 parts (including foreign mag) you remove the foreign trigger group (3 parts) and the foreign buttstock (1 part) and end up with 10. If you use and American Pistol-grip then you remain at 10. a Foreign will bring you up to 11 and you'll be SOL again.

The x39 is an easy conversion. The S-12 is harder.

 

[SSN Vet]

You want a single hook tapco, unless you want to modify the receiver to clear the 2nd hook. No real reason to do so in most people's opinion.

this matches my experience

many of the threads on the Saiga forum get hijacked without ever getting an answer for the OP.

as does this