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I switched my chambered round to FMJ. Here's why.

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Handgun Midas, Dec 14, 2006.

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  1. Handgun Midas

    Handgun Midas Member

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    Since before I had my CCW (earlier this year) I had been keeping a full mag of JHP
    in my P345 which sat on my nightstand, but an empty chamber. I hadn't any RSC,
    so when I went out, I would drop the mag and lock the gun with the supplied Ruger lock.

    This also facilitated my dry firing practice, as all I needed to do was drop the
    loaded mag and insert a mag with a snap cap; slingshot and commence pulling.
    For anybody who doesn't know, a P345 is one gun where snap caps for dry-firing
    are highly recommended.

    Fast foward to the present, when a JHP never leaves the chamber of my gun which
    rarely leaves my side. What I'm noticing is that my meager supply of JHP is getting
    scuffed up, because now I have to eject and re-chamber at least one JHP round
    anytime I dry-fire.

    So what I've taken to doing is chambering a cheap FMJ, and then keeping the mag
    filled with JHP. This way the only round that gets repeatedly ejected and chambered
    is cheaply replacable FMJ round that probably has a better chance of feeding with a
    scuffed nose.

    So after a dozen or so dry-fire sessions, when that round has been through
    the mag and chamber that many times, I can just dump it in with my practice
    ammo for the next range trip. Or if it looks so bad that I'm worried about a
    kaboom, I can simply toss it.

    This way I can always keep my JHP defensive ammo in top condition, while
    dry-firing as much as I want. The only potential downside is I don't have an
    expanding bullet for that first shot, but there's eight of them queued up underneath.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. BullfrogKen

    BullfrogKen Moderator Emeritus

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    Cycle through your carry ammo. This isn't the best reason to carry FMJ, in my opinion.
     
  3. SWMAN

    SWMAN Member

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    Buy another P345 and use that for dryfiring.
     
  4. Manedwolf

    Manedwolf member

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    Agreed with the second post, you should be cycling through your carry ammo more often anyway. Use it up at least once every couple of months, load new.

    Yeah, you have to pay for it. Having a gun go :barf: when a BG is running up on you costs a lot more.
     
  5. ZeSpectre

    ZeSpectre Member

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    While I understand the logic, there is at least one item that I think is important to point out. Rounds that are repeatedly re-chambered can be pressed back into the hull (commonly called setback) and may create a dangerous overpressure situation.

    See this thread
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=235204

    So it's probably a very good idea to simply run through your ammo every now and then and load the magazine fresh.
     
  6. Skywarp

    Skywarp member

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    Still not a fan.


    cycle through the ammo. if it gets set back i wouldnt shoot it but scuffed up shouldn't affect it. If it's a finicky loading gun then i wouldn't keep it around anyways.
     
  7. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    Id have to agree with the above, why not just cycle your ammo? It would only cost you at maximum 20 bucks and you would have new ammo.
     
  8. Zero_DgZ

    Zero_DgZ Member

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    I have an even less noble reason. I have enough JHP's to fill my mags but I'm short one for the chamber, so I dropped an FMJ in there.
     
  9. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

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    jhp ammo don't cost that much. Over penetration and striking a bystandard = lawsuit if you're unly using one fmj. You can get nice jhp ammo for $10-$20 a box. It's not much when you realize you life could depend on it. My defense rounds don't last more that two months, and MOTT they only make it a month.

    It's good to practice with what you'll actually be shooting, then you'll know for sure if it feeds well and if it is prone to jamming or FTF. IF you've run 100+ rds of brand "x" and it always feeds and it groups well and your gun don't jam, it was worth the $$$ to know that when you NEED your gun it will work.

    That's why I know federal JHP will feed well and hornaday won't. I don't rely on hornaday JHP. because I've shot 50+ rounds of it and it WILL jam on about every 5th rd. not to mention it won't feed if there are more than 6 in the magazine.
     
  10. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    Buy an extra magazine.
     
  11. clt46910

    clt46910 Member

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    You need to fire off your carry load regularly and keep your carry load fresh. If you are not going to do that and worry about what your carry load looks like, just put the more worn round at the bottom of the mag, nobody can see it then.
     
  12. Curare

    Curare Member

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    You are saving a few pennies at the potential cost of your life.

    Penny wise, pound foolish.
     
  13. Handgun Midas

    Handgun Midas Member

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    Yeah, that's efficient

    I'm aware. Better I ruin and toss a FMJ than JHP.

    I have three. One in the gun, one in the mag carrier, and one in the shoulder holster.
    No matter how many mags I have, I still have to juggle the chambered round, and that's the whole point.

    How exactly is a single FMJ overtop eight JHPs going to cost me my life?



    I do appreciate the replies, but the purpose of this practice is to keep my more expensive
    JHP ammo in good condition while making it as convenient as possible to me to load up a snap cap for practice.

    Money is tight right now, and I don't want to have to replace my JHP supply more often than necessary.
    BTW, last time I used up my old JHPs, the gun ran them all with no problems.
     
  14. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    You may only have time to get off one shot before a BG is on you. A good hit is a good hit though, no matter what you use.

    I cycle through the rounds in the mag, pop out your chamber round, when you re-load it, the next round goes in the chamber then eject the mag and top it off. Shuffle things up and shoot the ammo every few months and replace it with fresh stuff.
     
  15. walking arsenal

    walking arsenal Member

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    Just because someone can afford a gun doesnt mean they can afford to run through expensive carry ammo all the time.

    Yes we should replace ammo often.

    Yes we should have half a dozen mags per gun.

    Yes we should run 200+ rounds of our selcted carry round through the gun to make sure it cycles.

    But this is all under ideal conditions.

    This doesnt factor in that some folks that carry are poor and dont want to ruin their expensive carry ammo.

    $20 is a lot of money to some.

    To me thats 3 hours of work after taxes. I'm a college student. 100 rounds of 9mm FMJ can be bought for 20 rounds of good JHP.

    For the poor, quantity is sometimes better.

    There has to be a middle ground somewhere, self defense isn't only for the rich.

    My .02
     
  16. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

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    Very true, you don't have to constantly replace your ammo, but really I'd work some overtime or mow lawns for that extra $40 a year plus at least what two boxes cost to test out a round in my gun. (and yes I'm a poor college student, I just don't buy text books so I can buy ammo:neener: ) I've have a gun that I know doesn't like some ammo because I've worked 12 hr. days to afford some ammo to test, if I had relied on the hornaday ammo I initially bought without testing it I don't know who'd be more surprised me or a BG when my gun wouldn't feed. You can just buy one box and never replace it until it's needed and just shoot reloaded FMJ. Heck I bet a box of 20 JHP could last a year if treated nice and rotated. But I still stand by the fact that $40 isn't too much a year and running a new round through your gun a little (two boxes minimum) is very important, especially in a cheaper gun that a poor guy who can't afford JHP ammo would buy. And it's better to carry with a FMJ on top than not carry at all.
     
  17. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Member

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    You don't have to go through $20 worth of ammo a week.
    If you chamber the same round you'll be replacing a 30-50 cent round about once a month. Shoot up that mag of ammo twice a year and put in fresh stuff.
    I'd love to get CorBon DPX but I can't afford $200 for 200 rounds of ammo to make sure my gun functions flawlessly with it at this point in time, so I'll stick with Golden Saber for now.
     
  18. rustymaggot

    rustymaggot Member

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    rotate the hollow points within the magazine whenever you feel a need to dryfire . that way a small scratch on each one works out ok, and when youve scuffed em all up fire em and get new ones. that will save you alot.

    personally i just dont see this as much of a problem. how scuffed does a bullet get from a few chamberings? just scuff the heck out of that one bullet and then when its not suitable to you then set it aside for range use later. its a 30 cent problem. how much dryfiring are you doing?
     
  19. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    Do just what your doing I see nothing wrong with a Ball first round.
    As to shooting up and replacing you carry ammo every mo. or 2 Fine by me if you can afford it. But ammo last a long time and I see no need to do this. We don't have a problem asking our soliders to go to war with ammo that been stored years . They carry it into combat every day and it works. How old is that new box of HP you just got fron dealer or the case you ordered from ....
    I have ammo I fired off this summer from LATE 80'S AND IT ALL WORKED FINE
    I practice with ball and shoot my carry ammo up about every 6 to 8 mo not every mo or 2.
    just my 02
     
  20. Chuck R.

    Chuck R. Member

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    I replace my SD ammo about annually, sometimes longer. I’ve never had a problem with “stale” ammo.

    I take the “Chambered” round and mark the primer with a marker so I can tell it from the rest. That round is always the chambered round, so if it gets scuffed etc, it’s already in there, so no feeding worries. IF it does start to shrink or that round is looking rough, just shoot it at your next range session. I’ve got to tell you though, I’ve chambered some of my Golden Saber’s upwards of 30+ times and when measuring them haven’t noticed much if any shrinkage from setback.

    Depending on your pistol, I don’t think you’d have anything to worry about. I routinely shoot reloads that I’ve made from “liberated GI .45ACP brass that I “got” when we switched to M9s. The ammo itself was Vietnam era, and I’ve loaded that brass countless times, I still haven’t seen any reliability problems due to the brass condition. Some of the rims look light a rodents been gnawing on them, and they still chamber and feed even in an unreliable, antique 1911:D

    Chuck
     
  21. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight Member

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    I knew a fellow starving college student a long time ago that would hardly use his brakes on his really old car in order to save wear on the pads. He would downshift his manual tranny until it slowed him way down before he applied the brakes. He never had to replace the pads during the time he owned the car. Guess what he had to replace instead.
    Using the cheapest round as your first shot because you don't like the way high quality SD bullets look from chambering scuffings just doesn't make sense to me. In SD, function over looks. Its already chambered when you need to defend yourself, so it doesn't matter if the hp rim is banged up.


    Based on your concersn, I don't recommend you slingshot, or use the slide release to chamber your first round.

    Solve two issues with one solution:
    Don't use the slide to chamber it out of the mag. With an empty gun, mag removed, lock open the slide, point the gun downward, and simply gravity-drop the top round into the chamber. This will both prevent any wear on the nose of the bullet, eliminate the possibility of chambering-induced setback, and all of your SD ammo will look spanking brand new. If you manually eject the round by pulling back the slide very slowly, you'll even keep the rim from getting any dings.
    Would this solve your problem?
     
  22. Handgun Midas

    Handgun Midas Member

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    Hey, I do that too!
    Excellent! *electric guitar wails*

    This has nothing to do with cosmetics, excepting that the appearence can be indicative
    of the rounds' likelyhood to jam, and please keep in mind that I was rotating the JHPs previously.

    I'll keep a mag full of shiney JHPs over a mag full of scuffed-nosed JHPs that have
    a higher chance of jamming. This isn't proven, BTW, least of all in my gun,
    but this is how I percieve the risks.

    No difference in a slingshot or a slide stop-drop. It does the same thing to the bullet.

    I knew a quirky college student once who thought he could save his ammo and mags
    from setback bugaboos by dropping the round in the chamber and letting the extractor
    take the hit by ramming it's way over the rim of the bullet.

    Guess what he had to replace?

    Yes, by the method I adopted before posting this thread.
     
  23. PsychoKnight

    PsychoKnight Member

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    just stupid: I never said to do that did I?

    <<I knew a quirky college student once who thought he could save his ammo and mags
    from setback bugaboos by dropping the round in the chamber and letting the extractor
    take the hit by ramming it's way over the rim of the bullet.

    Guess what he had to replace?>>

    Take the hit? What hit?

    If you were going to prevent any kind of machining marks on the cartridge during chambering you wouldn't simply press the slide release and let the slide slam forward. I never said to do that did I?

    Restrain the slide as it moves forward slowly. When the extractor reaches the case head rim, gently push the slide forward until the extractor gently clicks over the rim and the action is locked in firing position.

    DUUHHHH !!!:neener:

    Anyhow and even so, what's wrong with using the slide release w/ round already chambered?
    If you notice the hook shape of the extractor and the spring loaded hinge by which it is attached to the slide, you'd understand that the extractor functions this way by design. I will concede that although the extractor is made from high grade hardened steel, it will eventually wear out and need to be replaced from this type of pre-chambered slide closure. Yes, maybe after several tens of thousand incidents of this specific chambering technique, and at twice a week, 10,000 such chamberings would take a hundred years. Plus, your extractor will still last long after several much more expensive parts of the gun require replacement, during which time the extractor would be replaced as part of a routine overhaul anyhow.

    In the light of such a combative attitude, I'm wondering what's the purpose of your question? You just like to argue? You just like to piss people off? What's your problem?
     
  24. kungfuhippie

    kungfuhippie Member

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    I think when midas posted this he just wanted to be praised for coming up with such a brilliant way of saving $40 a year. He was expecting us all to understand that he is indead the most frugal pistolero in the cantina. Too bad that everyone decided to call him a tightwad who was doing something that could result in more problems than the $ he'll save.:(

    Well done handgun midas, may all that you shoot turn to gold:neener:
    And may we all learn to value our pennies over our lives.
     
  25. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Top off your gun with HPs, and shoot your on-board mag of HPs every time you go shooting. this does several things:

    1. It cycles your carry ammo. Bullet setback, chewed up rims, etc...all degrade reliability/safety.

    2. It gives you a very clear picture how well your carry ammo functions in the gun.

    3. You will have no doubts what would have happened had you gone for your gun that week and had to pull the trigger.

    Just spend the extra money to cycle your ammo. It is more than worth it.

    Mike
     
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