My 1006 doesn't like self-defense loads!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Devonai

Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2003
Messages
4,026
Location
Connecticut
Earlier this year I got myself a S&W 1006. It is 100% reliable with American Eagle 180 grain FMJ, but I've been experiencing failures to extract with both Corbon 165 grain JHP and Winchester Silvertip 175 grain JHP.

The extractor is slipping over the rim, leaving the case in the chamber. To clear the weapon, one must drop the mag, drop and then rack the slide. The case always pops right out on the first try.

I've fired 200 rounds of FMJ without this problem. Since it's a failure to extract, I can't imagine the JHP rounds are to blame. I think it may have to do with the high velocity of the JHP loads, which are 20-25% hotter than the FMJ (1300fps vs 1050). If the slide velocity is higher, it may be causing the extractor to slip.

Has anyone else experienced this problem? How easy is it to adjust the tension on a S&W extractor?
 
May well be the extractor or the spring or both. Is the recoil spring recent? They seem to wear out around 1200 rounds of medium to high power loads. When my 1076 started to do that I figured it was time for both the extractor and it's spring and replaced them together. No problems since, other than some failures to go into battery when it wants a new recoil spring. The parts were all available from Numrich. The extractor was the most expensive at $22.00. I may have only needed the spring, but I use this gun weekly and didn't want to spend the time necessary to zero-in on the exact cause. So far I have ten years into this gun and it has given excellent service for little cost. The extractor from Numrich is a genuine Smith part and is sold "proud" of it's proper thickness at it's stop. I used the old part for measurement and spent about twenty minutes fitting it. Hope this helps.
Josh
 
Thanks to fastbolt for the most comprehensive answer on a subject I've ever received on THR. Well, maybe a tie with Tuner, but a great answer.

Are you sure you don't want to post your PM here? There's a lot of good info in there that other might be able to use.
 
Fastbolt, I’d really like to read your response since it was so helpful. If you could post it here in the forum or message me I would appreciate it. I have a 1006 that is completely reliable, but I picked up a used one that has a failure to extract every twenty rounds or so. The extractor is noticeably loose and won’t hold a spent case in the slide with a little shake. I’m going to get a new extractor spring and see if that fixes the problem, but I’d be interested in anything you have to say on the subject.
Thanks, Jim
 
Okay, here's the gist of what I sent in the PM.

While I can't diagnose what's happening with your particular 1006, if it were happening to one being used on our range, I'd suspect one, or a combination, of the following things ... (presuming a reasonably clean pistol).

Chipped/broken extractor hook.
Dirty/fouled extractor recess under extractor.
Aging/weakened extractor spring.

I've been replacing an increasing number of extractor springs in our issued S&W pistols in recent months, but then most of our aging inventory is going on 15 years old, and that's not unusual for extractor springs to start exhibiting weakening by that age ... especially when you factor in pistols which may have seen a fair amount of use.

If the extractor spring is just getting to be old enough that it's becoming weakened to the point that it provides less than proper tension against the tail of the extractor, then you might expect to start seeing some failures-to-extract, caused by extractor's hook simply being bounced out & around the case rim during recoil. The extractor spring has to be strong enough to tension the tail of the extractor outward, and therefore the hook inward, during the initial part of the recoil forces being experienced by the pistol (this is often called 'moment of mass', FWIW).

The factory recommended specification for 10mm (and .40 S&W) pistol extractor tension is 4-8 lbs, and it's measured with a dial gauge. The reason there's a 'range' is that occasionally some pistols might experience optimal functioning within different portions of that range. It might also permit a factory technician, gunsmith or armorer to 'adjust' the amount of extractor spring tension in order to provide for best functioning when it comes to any particular ammunition preferences, too. The tension is 'adjusted' by the use of different springs (of varying rated strengths). The variable factors involved in ammunition production & quality control can lend themselves to some interesting circumstances, especially when it comes to pressure levels and case rim dimensions. A weakening extractor spring potentially might become more noticable when using different ammunition. So too, might a chamber which becomes 'stickier' with fouling more from one type of ammunition, than perhaps with another.

It's also not uncommon to find that in pistols which have been used for a long period of time, such as approaching 10 years or so, that the extractors have started to become 'work hardened', and this may manifest as chipping ... or outright breakage of the hook. In addition to the spring strength, I always examine the extractor when a pistol starts to exhibit weakened extractor spring tension. Sometimes I find the extractor has started to exhibit some chipping. When that happens, I not only replace the spring & the extractor, but also the ejector (which has been working as hard to kick the cases free as the extractor & spring have been working to extract & hold the cases).

S&W extractors must be 'fitted' to each pistol's slide. They are NOT intended to be considered 'drop in' parts. Fitting them involves filing on the extractor's adjustment surface (the flat surface behind the extractor's hook, which engages the inside of the slide's extractor slot recess), and the use of bar & flag gauges to check some 'fitting' dimensions. While the dial gauge checks the spring’s tension (once the extractor has been properly fitted), the bar & flag gauges are used to check a couple of critical dimensions of the hook's positioning. These dimensions involve the positioning of the extractor's hook in relation to the opposite shoulder of the breech face, as well as the dimension between the 'inside' surface of the hook and the breech face immediately behind it. It should be done by a gunsmith familiar with S&W pistols, or the factory (or a L/E armorer, if you know one). The factory might be the best bet, and would be what I’d recommend (unless you locate a gunsmith), since sometimes (especially on the earlier '3rd generation' production pistols) it might require trying a couple or more of the different available extractor springs before one is found which offers optimal functioning in any particular pistol. Then, there's always the occasional pistol where the 'right' spring tension might even be outside the 'recommended' tension range. After all, the final proof is in the actual functioning when it's being fired, and not just when being inspected using 'bench checks'.

While you’re at it, I’d also replace the recoil & magazine springs, especially if you don’t know their age. S&W recommends that both of these types of springs be replaced every 5,000 rounds, or every 5 years, whichever occurs first. This is a conservative recommendation, and is probably erring on the side of safety for liability reasons. (We're talking about defensive weapons, after all, when it comes to L/E and personally owned pistols which may be used for defensive purposes.)

By the way, I'm flattered that you mentioned me in relation to Tuner, but you need to understand that I'm NOT a gunsmith ... and I'm certainly NOT an 'expert' anything ... but only a factory trained L/E armorer. This places me more in the realm of a simple 'Plug 'n Play' parts replacement kind of guy.

Call S&W, and they can get your 1006 back up and running the way it was intended and produced way back when ... ;) It would also give them a chance to give your pistol the 'once over' to see if anything else might benefit from any newer production/upgraded/revised parts, as well. Nice folks.

Best,
fb
 
Last edited:
Fasbolt's recommendations for a finicky S&W autoloader are, as usual, excellent. :)

That said, my 1006 & 1076 haven't had one bobble in thousands of 10mm rounds fired.

If there's a problem with your extractor, S&W will make it right. The few times I've contacted them for spare parts for mags, their customer service was great.

:cool:
 
Now, if ONLY S&W would recognize the popularity of their older metal-framed TDA 10mm pistols, and consider redesigning a new version, even if just a basic 'Value Line' model.

Maybe someday.

I'm told that there's even been some in-house suggestions among some of the folks that they consider releasing a new 10mm model PISTOL sometime ...

Unfortunately, I've been told that some of the older equipment used in the production of the 4506-X & 10XX pistols is no longer in existence, so it would apparently require some retooling. That, and for the 10mm cartridge to become more 'popular' in the way of ammunition sales by the major ammunition manufacturers, and not just in the way of component sales.

Sigh ... :(

I'd buy one ...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top