That's the sad part. They can make a decent rifle when they want to. It just seems like they really don't care if the consumer is inconvenienced and the product has defects when it leaves the plant. I have a half dozen Remington's and all of them shoot great now. Trouble is, 3 had to be worked on to get them to where they will shoot the way they should have when they left factory. I've had other duds too lately besides Remington. The last Winchester 70 I purchased was (and still is) the worst shooting gun I have ever owned (243 WSSM). I also had problems with a Ruger #1 International and had to have an "accurizer" installed in it before I could get groups under 6". I've just not having much luck with American made guns the past 3 or 4 years. I've also been hearing (reading) a lot of complaints on this board lately about Marlin. Perhaps it has something to do with us being at war and they just don't have the manpower to check everything like they did in the past. I probably won't buy anymore new Remington's, Rugers, Winchesters or Marlins but I will still consider second hand ones if I can see how they shoot. Having spent 22 years in the Navy, I hate to say this, but it is getting very hard to buy American made products as more and more companies in the States just don't seem to give a damn about the quality of the products they make and how they treat their customers. Not all, but it seems the good ones are few and far between.
I think I bought my last Remington.
- Thread starter J.R.W.
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That's the sad part. They can make a decent rifle when they want to. It just seems like they really don't care if the consumer is inconvenienced and the product has defects when it leaves the plant. I have a half dozen Remington's and all of them shoot great now. Trouble is, 3 had to be worked on to get them to where they will shoot the way they should have when they left factory. I've had other duds too lately besides Remington. The last Winchester 70 I purchased was (and still is) the worst shooting gun I have ever owned (243 WSSM). I also had problems with a Ruger #1 International and had to have an "accurizer" installed in it before I could get groups under 6". I've just not having much luck with American made guns the past 3 or 4 years. I've also been hearing (reading) a lot of complaints on this board lately about Marlin. Perhaps it has something to do with us being at war and they just don't have the manpower to check everything like they did in the past. I probably won't buy anymore new Remington's, Rugers, Winchesters or Marlins but I will still consider second hand ones if I can see how they shoot. Having spent 22 years in the Navy, I hate to say this, but it is getting very hard to buy American made products as more and more companies in the States just don't seem to give a damn about the quality of the products they make and how they treat their customers. Not all, but it seems the good ones are few and far between.
godale
Member
it is really a sad state of affairs
Armed012002
Member.
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I don't mean to offend anyone, but after your experience with bad customer service with Remington, you probably don't want to buy a Kimber. Kimber has horrible customer service. Do a search on this forum or other forums about their CS.
It's no excuse for a gun company to have bad customer service when Smith & Wesson/Thompson Center, Springfield Armory, Ruger, Colt, FN/Winchester/Browning, Savage, etc. all have great customer service.
Personally, I avoid The Freedom Group brand names like the plague. In my opinion, they're very poorly managed and could not care less about their customers.
Do a search on this forum or other forums about any brand in the Freedom Group. Chances are you'll hear their customer service is horrible.
It's no excuse for a gun company to have bad customer service when Smith & Wesson/Thompson Center, Springfield Armory, Ruger, Colt, FN/Winchester/Browning, Savage, etc. all have great customer service.
Personally, I avoid The Freedom Group brand names like the plague. In my opinion, they're very poorly managed and could not care less about their customers.
Do a search on this forum or other forums about any brand in the Freedom Group. Chances are you'll hear their customer service is horrible.
Smokey in PHX
Member
I recently purchased a Mod 700 in 300WM with their new trigger and was pleased as it did shoot MOA. Over all finishing of the metal, particularly on the inside was not as good as my older Remingtons. I can live with that on this rifle.
However, I also purchased a Marlin 336, in 30-30 that shoots all over the place. Much, much worse than others I have shot. I have a feeling this one will be going back to the factory.
However, I also purchased a Marlin 336, in 30-30 that shoots all over the place. Much, much worse than others I have shot. I have a feeling this one will be going back to the factory.
This is sad to hear this about Remington. I have had mixed reviews and had mixed experiences myself, both good and bad.
Example: I sold a NIB Remington Wingmaster 16 GA to a friend the year they stopped making the 16's.
Bad Part: The lines on the vent rib went askew so that when your eye looked at the bead it went off to the side. Not good for aiming! I thought he was crazy when he told me about it, but when I looked, there was no denying it, it was bad. Not even really sure how that was possible, but it was definitely screwed up. There was also some noticeable issues with the bluing.
Good Part: I called Remington and told them my friend (the receiving customer) wanted a whole new gun. They agreed to it and sent a nice one. That was probably 2007 or 08, cant remember.
I love the old Remington 22 rifles. I think they are real tack drivers. I also have an 870 that does just what it is supposed to do. Never had a big centerfire bolt action rifle of theirs so cant comment on those.
Hope they get things turned around.
Example: I sold a NIB Remington Wingmaster 16 GA to a friend the year they stopped making the 16's.
Bad Part: The lines on the vent rib went askew so that when your eye looked at the bead it went off to the side. Not good for aiming! I thought he was crazy when he told me about it, but when I looked, there was no denying it, it was bad. Not even really sure how that was possible, but it was definitely screwed up. There was also some noticeable issues with the bluing.
Good Part: I called Remington and told them my friend (the receiving customer) wanted a whole new gun. They agreed to it and sent a nice one. That was probably 2007 or 08, cant remember.
I love the old Remington 22 rifles. I think they are real tack drivers. I also have an 870 that does just what it is supposed to do. Never had a big centerfire bolt action rifle of theirs so cant comment on those.
Hope they get things turned around.
dc.fireman
Member
Thanks, I was just about to mention these corporate "raiders" who care for nothing more than a profit margin...
Armed012002
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Savage does a better job at giving rifle shooters what they want.
Try buying a Remington 700 from the factory in .308 Palma, 6mm BR, 6.5 x 284 Norma, or any specialty cartridge. Try buying a Remington 700 from the factory in .223 Remington with a 1 in 7" twist or even in .308 Winchester with a 1 in 10" twist! Hell, try buying a Remington 700 CDL or BDL in .308 Winchester rather than .30-06! You can get one in .243 Winchester, but not .308? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
People complained about triggers, so Savage came out with the Accutrigger. People complained about stocks, so Savage came out the Accustock. People complained about looks, so Savage changed the barrel nut to a smooth one and produces a nicer overall finish in the higher end models.
While they're still not perfect, Savage listens to their customers.
Remington should be avoided in my opinion. There are better options.
Try buying a Remington 700 from the factory in .308 Palma, 6mm BR, 6.5 x 284 Norma, or any specialty cartridge. Try buying a Remington 700 from the factory in .223 Remington with a 1 in 7" twist or even in .308 Winchester with a 1 in 10" twist! Hell, try buying a Remington 700 CDL or BDL in .308 Winchester rather than .30-06! You can get one in .243 Winchester, but not .308? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
People complained about triggers, so Savage came out with the Accutrigger. People complained about stocks, so Savage came out the Accustock. People complained about looks, so Savage changed the barrel nut to a smooth one and produces a nicer overall finish in the higher end models.
While they're still not perfect, Savage listens to their customers.
Remington should be avoided in my opinion. There are better options.
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LANDMAN4389
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- Dec 5, 2009
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I gave up on Remington when they started producing junk like the 597,710 and 770.. Every Remington (new) product that I have seen on the shelves in the last few years looked like cheap made junk to me. I think it started in some of their product lines back in 93' or 94', and progressed from there.
I'm not knocking the company as my family owns a pile of their older guns, but if I had to purchase one today it would be an older Remington or a new Savage.
No comparison on Remington vs Savage quality.
Keep us informed on how this goes!
I'm not knocking the company as my family owns a pile of their older guns, but if I had to purchase one today it would be an older Remington or a new Savage.
No comparison on Remington vs Savage quality.
Keep us informed on how this goes!
Here's the latest reply from this afternoon:
And my response which as of yet has gone unanswered:
I'll definitely keep this thread updated as things progress. All I want is a clear explanation of where the problem stems from and how they resolve it. Hopefully the gun will be back soon so I can inspect it. I'm seriously considering a Savage at this point, mostly the 12F/TR. It is almost twice the price of the Remington, but the foul taste of this experience has left me considering it. It is sad to see a company who feels no accountability to their customer. I would hope for someone higher up to be reaching out by this point to seek a resolution. I would say I'm hoping for a positive resolution, but I think all I'll be seeing is a shiny turd.
In regards to the Tactical .308 I'm toying with the idea of an aftermarket replacement bolt, or having the firing pin channel drilled and tapped for an insert. I'm so disheartened by this, I may just sell it and move my brand loyalty elsewhere. As noted above, a link to this thread was included in a message to Remington. With almost 1k views and no one really chiming in with any glowing responses to support their quality as of late, it's overly apparent they just don't care.
And my response which as of yet has gone unanswered:
I'll definitely keep this thread updated as things progress. All I want is a clear explanation of where the problem stems from and how they resolve it. Hopefully the gun will be back soon so I can inspect it. I'm seriously considering a Savage at this point, mostly the 12F/TR. It is almost twice the price of the Remington, but the foul taste of this experience has left me considering it. It is sad to see a company who feels no accountability to their customer. I would hope for someone higher up to be reaching out by this point to seek a resolution. I would say I'm hoping for a positive resolution, but I think all I'll be seeing is a shiny turd.
In regards to the Tactical .308 I'm toying with the idea of an aftermarket replacement bolt, or having the firing pin channel drilled and tapped for an insert. I'm so disheartened by this, I may just sell it and move my brand loyalty elsewhere. As noted above, a link to this thread was included in a message to Remington. With almost 1k views and no one really chiming in with any glowing responses to support their quality as of late, it's overly apparent they just don't care.
rocketfish
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to make matters worse Remington owns Marlin now.
Jeff, I'm pretty sure it's going to be the Savage. I'm just waiting to hear from the shop I deal with if he'll credit me towards the 12F/TR before the Remington returns. Part of me wants to see how well they fixed the 700, but the wiser part says cut the losses. The only upside to this is it's taking my focus off the stress of buying a house.
Krogen
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My last new Remington also had that stupid bolt lock. Not only is it an insult to have a lock on a rifle, it screwed up the smoothness of the bolt. Although it cost me $50, there was a quick fix. Brownells sells a firing pin assembly for the 700. It took me 10 minutes to replace it and my rifle operates like the older design.
One more... people complained when they changed the 7mm-08 to 1:12" twist so they changed it back to 1:9.5".
Oh, and the new Lightweight Hunter in 6.5 Creedmore or .260 Rem. Talk about a perfect rifle!
Justin Holder
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The age of the Remington is over, the age of the Savage has begun.
Armed012002
Member.
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One big exception to not buying a Remington is for custom work.
Buying a Remington 700 receiver from Brownells and having a custom shop like GA Precision blueprint/tune is well worth it.
GA Precision has excellent customer service, so if you have any problems with a custom Remington 700 from them, they'll make it right.
There are many other custom shops that work on the Remington 700 and there are many aftermarket accessories from Badger Ordnance, Manners, and McMillan just to name a few.
A Remington 700 rifle is great if you don't buy it from Remington
Buying a Remington 700 receiver from Brownells and having a custom shop like GA Precision blueprint/tune is well worth it.
GA Precision has excellent customer service, so if you have any problems with a custom Remington 700 from them, they'll make it right.
There are many other custom shops that work on the Remington 700 and there are many aftermarket accessories from Badger Ordnance, Manners, and McMillan just to name a few.
A Remington 700 rifle is great if you don't buy it from Remington
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Stay with bigwhiteyj's subject and don't bring in other notions.
Omaha-BeenGlockin
Member
Remington has been bad for a long long time----I've been saying that for a long long time------but was always bashed by the fan boys as not being able to shoot straight.
Funny how my other rifles were/are tack drivers but EVERY Remington 700 I ever owned would never do better than a 2in group.
Looks like I'm finally vindicated---friends don't let friends buy Remingtons.
If you want to buy American---the Ruger Hawkeye and TC Venture are fantastic rifles.
Funny how my other rifles were/are tack drivers but EVERY Remington 700 I ever owned would never do better than a 2in group.
Looks like I'm finally vindicated---friends don't let friends buy Remingtons.
If you want to buy American---the Ruger Hawkeye and TC Venture are fantastic rifles.
Taurus 617 CCW
Member
I built a Howa 1500 and never looked back.
Still Shooting
Member
I'll add my two cents here...
I have some experience with sintered metal (powdered metal) from back in my days as a process engineer at Stanley Works (Stanley Tools). It's a great technology, but we found that for high load parts, it just doesn't have the strength or longevity of machined steel. I wouldn't think it appropriate for a rifle bolt.
In looking at the bolt photos in this thread (before reading the comments that followed) I automatically said, "well, that bolt is made from powdered metal. NOT a good idea."
And as far as Savage rifles go, I recently found and bought a Savage 11FHNS in 7mm WSM. I am still working up loads, but the thing started out at 1/2moa, and I haven't had any of my handloads shoot outside of that. My first centerfire rifle at age 14 was a Savage 340 in .22 Hornet, and at 50 yds. I could put 5 rds. into the pip on an ace of spades with open sights (wish my eyes were half that good now!). I don't care if the Savage rifles aren't beautiful, they are great shooters!
I love my old Remmies (Model 14 - made 1917, Model 241 made 1942, Model 572 made 1961), but I had a bad 760 in the late 60's (5" groups at 50yds?!) and haven't considered one since. I like all 4 of my Rugers, but will admit they all wanted a little "tinkering" to get the groups I like - less than 1/2moa. None of them took any major work, and they are all very accurate today.
I have some experience with sintered metal (powdered metal) from back in my days as a process engineer at Stanley Works (Stanley Tools). It's a great technology, but we found that for high load parts, it just doesn't have the strength or longevity of machined steel. I wouldn't think it appropriate for a rifle bolt.
In looking at the bolt photos in this thread (before reading the comments that followed) I automatically said, "well, that bolt is made from powdered metal. NOT a good idea."
And as far as Savage rifles go, I recently found and bought a Savage 11FHNS in 7mm WSM. I am still working up loads, but the thing started out at 1/2moa, and I haven't had any of my handloads shoot outside of that. My first centerfire rifle at age 14 was a Savage 340 in .22 Hornet, and at 50 yds. I could put 5 rds. into the pip on an ace of spades with open sights (wish my eyes were half that good now!). I don't care if the Savage rifles aren't beautiful, they are great shooters!
I love my old Remmies (Model 14 - made 1917, Model 241 made 1942, Model 572 made 1961), but I had a bad 760 in the late 60's (5" groups at 50yds?!) and haven't considered one since. I like all 4 of my Rugers, but will admit they all wanted a little "tinkering" to get the groups I like - less than 1/2moa. None of them took any major work, and they are all very accurate today.
Ragsdale 30 cal said:
Isn't buying an action from Remington still putting money in their pocket? Do you really want to support a company like this?
If you've got to have a Remington, why not shop used? Seems that the older ones are still largely working fine and buying one of them (even just for a donor action) doesn't support a company that's screwing customers over.
Last, on the 597's in .17HMR, is there a reason that they couldn't safely and effectively convert them to .22 magnum? It's not perfect, but it would have been something and it might have cost about the same as what the recall is costing them.
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Go to the Marlin Owners Forum and see what they are saying about the shoddy workmanship since Remington took over production. Barrels missing threads, ill fitting stocks, rusted bolts, canted sights, stripped screw heads, etc. The "RANT" section has been on fire over there lately. They are calling them "Remlins". Seems that if the rifle has a JM barrel stamp its a keeper but the REP stamped Remington made rifles are real turds. I have an older JM stamped XS7 and its a very nice gun. I have handled some newer Remingtons and Marlins lately and in my opinion the new Savages feel about 100x nicer.
Savage has a really good thing going. Just about anyone can build a MOA rifle using a $240 Stevens action. Everyone and their dog makes parts for Savage rifles and the costs are usually very reasonable compared apples to apples with Remington stuff. AND you can switch barrels in your garage and have a new caliber for only the cost of a barrel, nut wrench and some headspace gauges.
Savage has a really good thing going. Just about anyone can build a MOA rifle using a $240 Stevens action. Everyone and their dog makes parts for Savage rifles and the costs are usually very reasonable compared apples to apples with Remington stuff. AND you can switch barrels in your garage and have a new caliber for only the cost of a barrel, nut wrench and some headspace gauges.
godale
Member
i think the stevens is the best entry rifle period. better than the 710 and more stuff for it than the marlin. if you look at the marlins alot of ideas came from the stevens. i think the rap on the 710/770 it compared to the 700 and maybe a 114 savage. thats not even a fair comparasion.they are with the mossberg atr and stevens 200 all entry level guns. they are not eally bad if you are the type of hunter to go out a few times a year. but i belief for the money there are better choices including the stevens.
I don't believe the new 700 bolts are made from sintered metal. The rough texture on the lower end models is because of beadblasting IMO. The higher end 700's that don't get beadblasted still have a polished high quality looking bolt as good as any. I own 700's from the 70's, 80's, 90's and as recent as early 2011.
If you avoid buying the cheapest 700 available (SPS) the finish is much better.
If you avoid buying the cheapest 700 available (SPS) the finish is much better.
Armed012002
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- Jan 11, 2009
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A sintered metal or MIM bolt seems highly unlikely. What's the word on this?
Inebriated
Member
Their poor manufacturing is one of the biggest reasons why I'm going to Savage for precision rifles now. It's really disappointing to see what used to be one of THE firearm manufacturers going into the toilet.
My Marlin 795 and Remington 870 have been perfect, but I am seeing issues with more and more 700's.
My Marlin 795 and Remington 870 have been perfect, but I am seeing issues with more and more 700's.
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