I think my rifle has a problem.... (A photo essay)

[Wildfire]

My .02.....

Hey there:
Just my 2 cents worth here but may be worth a try. Sounds like you may have cover most all the bases. Try loading just one round at a time , No mag... Drop it in by hand. Try grouping it that way . That would tell you if the feeding is messing with the load on its way in the chamber.

 

[Afy]

Galil5.56

With all due respect. When I put down 6000 + USD on the table for a rifle. I expect it to shoot as advertised.
I expect the chamber to be correct, and the accuracy simillar to what other buyers are seeing.
I expect loads that work in other rifles for the caliber, and layout to pretty much work for me within a +/- 1 grain difference.

FMR Unique supplies rifles to the French Special forces.

If the manufacturer says that my OAL should be 2.91 for accuracy.. and essentially gives me the loads for the rifle. They should work.

Is that more than reasonable?

 

[Afy]

Wildfire... I never use the magazine.

 

[Afy]

RidgeRunner:

Am using the Lyman, Vithavouri and Sierra manuals.

For the 120 I am using N-150 since Sierra states that is the best. 39.5 is the maximum.

 

[Galil5.56]

If the manufacturer says that my OAL should be 2.91 for accuracy.. and essentially gives me the loads for the rifle. They should work.

Are there any test targets available from the maker to demonstrate the accuracy they obtained, along with noting what ammo/reloaded ammo was used?

 

[Afy]

OH YES YOU CAN! especially if your bore is overly large. You keep citing more supporting evidence to support this hypothesis.

In which case the rifle is built wrong. If the rifle is built as a 7-08 instead of a 6.5-08 (.260 remington) whose fault is it?

I suspect the wrong spec programmed into the build. I am suspecting that the chamber is incorrect. Coupled with probably a messed up barrel.

It goes back to the manufacturer and if they say it is correct. I want to witness them shoot a group simillar to what others are seeing with simillar configurations.

I am willing to try any loads/wieghts configurations they deem necessary. Hell if they want me to switch the scope to a NF or a SB I will. But I will not change the barrel/bolt/magazine or any other component supplied by the manufacturer.

I have already dropped over 6K for the setup. Another 2K for a new scope is not going to hurt. But I will not swap out the barrel for a new one at my expense.

Also Leupold scopes have a lifetime warranty. The manufacturer is a Leupold distributor. So if the scope is broken... change under warranty.

 

[R.W.Dale]

I have already dropped over 6K for the setup. Another 2K for a new scope is not going to hurt. But I will not swap out the barrel for a new one at my expense.

NOBODY mentions replacing it at your expense or that you're in any way responsible for the repair bill. But unless you figure out what's wrong here you're doomed to shoot groups reminiscent of a ill cared for $75 military surplus rifle. If you can tell the manufacturer "hey I think my barrel is out of spec" it MIGHT point them in the correct direction and speed the repair/troubleshooting process along.

With all due respect. When I put down 6000 + USD on the table for a rifle. I expect it to shoot as advertised.

that's a good question. What kind of accuracy does the manufacturer advertise?

 

[Wildfire]

I agree

Hey There:
If at all posiible I would do the same thing and want to see them shoot it better.
They would have to prove to me that It was just me and not the gun.

 

[Kayback]

What I have to say probablyisn't even worth 2cents, but I'll say it anyway.

Is it that exact rifle pictured? Were these shot with the can on it? How well build is it? I've had a friend shoot a baffle out of his brand new, incorectly assembled supressor.

KBK

 

[GooseGestapo]

I believe you have a barrel problem.

The last photo you sent with the 4 close hits, and a distant 5th is reminiscent of my .338/06 and 7mm08. Neither has the greatest barrel ever made........

It, (.338/06) however has a $50 USC barrel I bought from MidwayUSA, on sale, so I'm not fussing. The heavy .338 bullets are reasonably stabilized and kills splendidly. Rifle built cost more like $160.00 than $6000.00

I also have a Remington M7 in 7mm08 that is perplexingly inaccurate also, but again, it's a darling hunting rifle, and all the deer I've shot with it have died as they should. (An elk, by a friend as well...!)

However, with what youv'e spent on a target grade rifle, you have reason to expect better results.

I'd talk with the rifle builder, and try to bargain a replacement barrel (ieffer to pay cost of either labor or parts cost, but obviously not both !!).

Even the very best barrel builders can let a bad barrel get by them. Secondly, there is the possibility that the threads on the shank aren't just square and the barrels not seated square in the reciever. This too, will cause the "flyers".


I've seen the sooting you've noted. It's due to the composition of the VV powders, and is not a particular problem.

 

[FullEffect1911]

Nice looking rifle. I would also venture a guess that the problem lies in the barrel.

Out of curiosity if you have an L.E. Wilson gage or some such you could check your fire formed brass and see if it is within spec. Maybe not the most precise way to measure that, but it will give an idea.

 

[NCsmitty]

I agree that that is a wonderful looking rifle and should be capable of .25" 100 meter groups. Obviously, as more data has come available from your previous posts, something is dimensionally out of specification, barrel or chamber. Especially when you mention about your friend's rifle shooting your ammo with no soot and your rifle still exhibiting soot with his ammo. Have any of these loads been chronographed? That could be a giveaway if they are abnormally low. I have no experience with VV powders, but of all the other powders that I have used, sooting down the case body indicate lower than normal pressures and it's not something you should experience with your factory Federal cartridges. This is not normal It's my opinion that you should return this rifle and have it checked or find a reputable gunsmith to check it if you find it beyond your capabilities.

NCsmitty

 

[243winxb]

AFY, 1. Don't shoot using the bi-pod or the thing in the rear. Get sandbags so when the gun recoils it slides back in a level direction without the bags interferring with its recoil. For the next shot the gun should slide forward without much movement of the bag so that the cross hairs are on the mark. Use a square 1/2" white inside/black heavy lines for the square outside. 2. Full length resize fired brass, work with no more than 20 brass, same lot. 3. N150 120gr sierra looks good on paper, BUT seat the full diameter part of the base of the bullet even with the neck/shoulder junction (Bullet Deeper, Shorter COL). This will hopefully build more pressure and help with the dirty soot condition. 4. FLRS die adjustment, make a shim .003" to .005" thickness ( i use a usa made soda can)with a hole for the decapping pin. Run the ram/shellholder up, screw down the die till it contacts the shell holder with the shim. Lock die. This will give you a tight fit of the case in your chamber, do it first with a sized case first, not a loaded round. The bold should take a little extra pressure to close , snug, not much. 5. All rifles need a good cleaning with a brass brush and solvent. Use a coated cleaning rod. 6. Use wind flags, you must know what the wind is doing. I dont know how much experence you have, so i tried to cover it all. I don't own a 260 Rem. by the way. Most things you have tried, so something might be wrong with the barrel.

 

[Bullet]

Afy

Is this who manufactured your rifle?

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/unique-fmr/gammers.htm


.

 

[243winxb]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4651512#post4651512 AFY, After looking again at your other post on COL i feel you should only shoot the longest and heavest bullets your 1-9 twist can handles. You chamber throat seems to be set up for very long/heavy VLD bullets. The Sierra 120gr might be the wrong choice.

 

[243winxb]

Afy, I see your using Redding dies. What type are they in FLRS and neck sizing, standard or bushing? Do you size with or without the expander button? I still think its the barrel.

 

[Afy]

243WinXB: I have the 3 piece die set. FLRS, NRS and Seater.

I do not use the expander unless the neck rim has been beaten due to hitting the ground or something in general. I have tried without expander and with expander. Additionally only the virgin brass is full sized prior to loading.

Also here are some primer pictures:
The one on the left is the Federal Gameking (factory), and the right from a 139 Scenar load



These are from the 120 SMK loads


No signs of low pressure from what little I see.

 

[KI.W.]

Afy, responsibility is the manufacters. You can´t do nothing enymoore. Now it is manufacters turn.

 

[243winxb]

The photos look ok, no high pressure signs. As for dies, i find that FLRS is more accurate than using the standard neck sizing die. FLRS die adjustment, make a shim .003" to .005" thickness ( i use a usa made soda can)with a hole for the decapping pin. Run the ram/shellholder up, screw down the die till it contacts the shell holder with the shim. Lock die. This will give you a tight fit of the case in your chamber, do it first with a sized case first, not a loaded round. The bold should take a little extra pressure to close , snug, not much. The neck sizing die when used with an expander button tends to move the neck off center of the body of the brass. A fire formed/neck sized case is only good if you chamber is perfectly aligned with the bore. And when using standard dies you really should use the expander button. If your to get the full accuracy out of a custom gun sometimes bushing die and neck turning is a must depending on chamber. Case prep, weight each one, uniforming the flash hole can mean a difference. But first wait till the builder checks your rifle for anything that may not be normal.

 

[Afy]

That is exactly what I am intending to do. Am also providing 1 box of 20 cartridges that I have loaded, and a box of factory loads. Let him shoot it and fix the rifle.

I have lost paitence at this stage...

If he cant fix it... am just going to get a Border barrel and fit that instead.

 

[Bullet]

Afy

Looks like your not alone with 260 Remington.

I’ve tried about 6 different loads. The only consistent thing so far is that I can get about 3 shots touching (or within .5) and two fly completely out of the group…and it’s never the same shots in the same sequence. You’d normally expect shots 3 & 4 to fly out, but it’s completely random. Honestly, I’ve not gotten super serious about it yet because I’m using resized NATO .308 brass, which is generally a little erratic in performance, but I thought I could expect better groups than I’m getting. The .243 I bought from Darrel at the same time did much better with the same brass.
Surprisingly, the 123g HPBTMK and Varget have performed the best. The heavier bullets, which should do best, have been terrible. I tried 140g HPBTMK’s and AMax bullets with 4831SC, H1000 and RL19 and there was no obvious difference in the performance of those powders - about 2-3 MOA.
I’m going back out in tomorrow to try some new things. I’ve resized some .243 Lapua Brass and prepped things a little better, so maybe that’ll be the ticket. I also put a better scope on it: I was using a VXI 4-12, now it’s got a VXIII 4.5-14. I’ve got the same scope on my 308 police rifle and it shoots .5 MOA all day, so the scope should not be a limiting factor at this point.

The above quote was taken from here -

http://d9firearms.com/archives/category/reloading/


.

 

[30Cal]

AFY, After looking again at your other post on COL i feel you should only shoot the longest and heavest bullets your 1-9 twist can handles. You chamber throat seems to be set up for very long/heavy VLD bullets. The Sierra 120gr might be the wrong choice.

I'm not familiar with that caliber, but a 1:9" seems fast for a 120gr bullet.

 

[30Cal]

AFY, After looking again at your other post on COL i feel you should only shoot the longest and heavest bullets your 1-9 twist can handles. You chamber throat seems to be set up for very long/heavy VLD bullets. The Sierra 120gr might be the wrong choice.

I'm not familiar with that caliber, but a 1:9" seems fast for a 120gr bullet. I'd expect it to shine with maybe 140's or heavier.

Also, the wind is going to grab hold of a 120gr and move it around at 200yds.

 

[IROCZ]

AFY, I think your gonna find that that particular barrel was improperly chambered, probably in the wrong caliber. Send it back, it's thier problem to fix it, not yours. My Krag groups better than that! And for 6k, I'd be ferocious! Send it back, The manufacturer should be embarassed.

 

[Afy]

30 Cal :

1:9 will stabilize everything upto 142 gr per the berger site.
Some people say 1:9 is too slow for the 139/140/142
Others say 1:9 is too fast for 107/108/120/123

I dont know of any maker that makes bullets that would be good for 1:9...

IROCZ:

As soon as I am finsihed typing this, am actually going to the manufacturer. Will update when I get back.