IBM Carbine Serial Number Line Out Photos

[FMJMIKE]

I recently purchased this Carbine for $505 shipped. It is an IBM receiver with an Inland barrel. The bolt, slide, stock and handgaurd are also Inland marked. The trigger housing is Underwood marked. No import marks and the barrel is bright and shiny. The big mystery is the serial number has been lined out. Any guesses why this was done ??? TIA

 

[sansone]

I once read years ago if a serial # needs to be changed for whatever reason, the importer can legally score a line through it and install a new serial # with the old still readable.
It was so long ago I can't remember where I saw it written..
So my next question is.. are you certain there isn't another serial # on the receiver?

 

[TexasRifleman]

Did you buy it from an FFL? Do you have a C&R?

What serial number was shown on the transfer if there was one?

 

[FMJMIKE]

I haven't found any other serial numbers.

 

[Art Eatman]

The numbers are still legible. I wouldn't worry about it, myself. It's not like they were ground off.

It wouldn't hurt to get some verification from the FFL...

 

[Sam1911]

This concerns me:

title 18, section 922k

(k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

Down in the gunsmithing forum there have been several threads recently to the effect that refinishing a gun, painting a gun, and even sweating on a gun so that the serial number is made less distinct would be considered defacing the number and could make the gun illegal contraband.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=609504

I would walk away from purchasing a gun I saw like that under nearly any circumstances.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Whatever reason that mark was made, it does not obliterate the serial number or make it unreadable. I would not find it a cause for worry. A cause for curiosity maybe, but not worry.

"or altered" to me indicates a serial number altered to not be the original serial number.

 

[sansone]

was it shipped dealer to dealer? There must be a serial # somewhere that can be recorded. Looks like the old serial # is readable. Here in my neck of the woods you can call the county sheriff and he will "run" the serial # through the computer to make sure the gun was not involved in a crime. A deputy will come and get the gun if it is "bad". If it was shipped directly to you by a private individual there may be a problem, but not a problem if the serial # is being used with the line through it.

 

[Art Eatman]

Not removed: The numbers are still visible.

Not obliterated: The numbers are legible.

Not altered: Same numbers as before.

 

[Sam1911]

I don't know for sure what the BATFE would say about that serial number -- though I have strong suspicions ... I mean, if you can render a gun illegal by sweating on it? ... -- but I would not be surprised if a police officer or sheriff saw that gun and wated to confiscate it and cause you some stress while official determinations were made about whether to charge you for possessing a firearm with an altered or obliterated serial number.

I can't say that gun is illegal, but I believe it is a potential risk I'd aviod.

Not removed: The numbers are still visible.

Not obliterated: The numbers are legible.

Not altered: Same numbers as before.

I certainly see your point -- but I would, and I wouldn't be prosecuting anyone. Its the powers that be who's opinions I don't trust on the matter.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Sam quotes :

title 18, section 922k

(k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

However, that was part of the 1968 GCA and did not exist prior to then. It's entirely possible that the marks on this rifle were made before that law came into being. There are LOTS of guns out there without any serial numbers at all and they are perfectly legal, since they were made before GCA. Proving when the mark would made is problematic, for both sides.

Whether or not the strike through meets the definition of removed, obliterated or altered only a jury can say.

I still am interested to hear if this came from a dealer or not. If so, what serial number is on the transfer? If a private sale, I might be more concerned.

 

[sansone]

It is enough of a concern for me to NOT take it into my store. I like to help people out and sell guns on consignment all the time, but that rifle would make me feel uneasy. I wouldn't call anybody regarding it, just would not log it in or allow it to remain with me. More than likely the serial # is still being used since it is quite readable

 

[FMJMIKE]

The gun transfer went through an FFL and serial number on Carbine was used. Not concerned about the legalities. I know some Carbine makers lined out their name on Carbines when they were sold to another company. Just never heard of a serial number being lined out. Thanks...........

 

[451 Detonics]

I was a dealer in a brick and mortar store for over 20 years, I wouldn't hesitate to buy or sell that carbine and would use the number as it is shown. I would be curious as to the strike out but wouldn't have any fear of it being an illegal firearm.

Pretty much a tempest in a teapot...

 

[Brian Williams]

There is finish in the line thru, Made that way?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It appeared to me the line was stamped rather than cut.

If finished in arsenal rebuild while still in military possession, it may have been that way pre-1968.